Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday March 29, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Proven Power Bragging

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-04-2009, 11:24 PM   #1
CatfaceType-R
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 81102
Join Date: Feb 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Micro aggression turnt
Default Anyone running a Twinscroll turbo on a non divided manifold? helper valve tested!

If you are, what's your setup? and you might want to beg your local suby shop to fab up something like this!

This is for a twinscroll turbo with a non divided manifold


here's why I think you would be interested in this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Performance View Post
Here is a dyno of our new valve for twin scroll turbos that will divert all exhaust to one scroll during spool up and then open to allow both to run normally.....






Seriously..... who else innovates like we do??? Seriously?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Suprafied View Post
Guys,

This device does work. I have a friend who has been working on for over a year on his car. Its has shown a GT42-74mm to be at full spool by 3700 RPM.

Larry,

IIRC, I thought I mentioned something to you about this or maybe Chris awhile ago.

DP

here's the thread if you are interested http://www.supraforums.com/forum/new...eply&p=5843044
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
CatfaceType-R is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 10-04-2009, 11:30 PM   #2
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen 7.37@95
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default


Last edited by juanmedina; 10-04-2009 at 11:50 PM.
juanmedina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 12:28 AM   #3
TDagen
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 163648
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Xona 78•64 UHF
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
V9 6mt R180 Brembos

Default

Holy%*^* where have these been? I might go twinscroll this winter lol...More fabbing...lol

TDagen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 01:26 AM   #4
seanathanq83
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 173241
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston, Tx
Vehicle:
2002 s256 twinscroll
now with one more gear

Default

i have seen this, but has anyone actually used it on a subaru i understand the concept and have seen it around for a few years now, and 500 rpms faster to 600 is nice and more under the graph, but i would like to see it on a subaru
seanathanq83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 01:36 AM   #5
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

why would someone run a twinscroll housing on a single scroll header?

wouldnt it be cheaper and easier (read less moving parts and possible points of failure) to just switch the turbine housing?

or just cut out the divider on the turbine?

to me this really isnt about single vs twin scroll.....but more about speeding up the exhaust gases at low rpm.

i'd like to see one of these on a single scroll turbine. Obviously it would never be shut, but partially closing it at low rpm should have this same effect, right?

Last edited by Phatron; 10-05-2009 at 01:53 AM.
Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 02:54 AM   #6
spoolinsti05
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 108051
Join Date: Feb 2006
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Oneonta, NY
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
WRB

Default

Humm Idk sounds like they tried to do something like this but further away from the turbo might not have as much of an effect. but who know's.

Check this out. Porsche 911 turbo VGT turbo borg warner makes it so you know they know what there doin with turbo's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variabl...y_turbocharger
spoolinsti05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 03:02 AM   #7
seanathanq83
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 173241
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston, Tx
Vehicle:
2002 s256 twinscroll
now with one more gear

Default

well i figure the way it works with the twins scroll with single scroll up pipe because it forces the gasses throught the one side which will make it go through only half of the twinscroll exhaust housing, my thought is that it might actually cause more turbulance in the up pipe and exhaust housing
seanathanq83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 04:05 AM   #8
Arctic Assassian
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 91875
Join Date: Jul 2005
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: A-town!
Vehicle:
91 legacy TD04
04 WRB/carbon fibre STI

Default

It could happen in the same way with a true twinscroll manifold, but the valve could only close half of each port, halving the opening for the gases, speeding the exhaust flow.
Arctic Assassian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 04:07 AM   #9
NSFW
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 140444
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Near Seattle, WA
Vehicle:
05 Stage Free LGT
ATP 3076, 6MT, AVO FMIC

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
why would someone run a twinscroll housing on a single scroll header?

wouldnt it be cheaper and easier (read less moving parts and possible points of failure) to just switch the turbine housing?

or just cut out the divider on the turbine?

to me this really isnt about single vs twin scroll.....but more about speeding up the exhaust gases at low rpm.

i'd like to see one of these on a single scroll turbine. Obviously it would never be shut, but partially closing it at low rpm should have this same effect, right?
You're misunderstanding the point of this thing. It basically turns a twin-scroll turbo into a variable-geometry single-scroll turbo. Variable geometry as in "you have two ARs to choose from."

With the valve open, you get something roughlyequivalent to a single-scroll turbo with the AR equal to the sum of the ARs of the two scrolls. Nothing special. But, with the valve closed, you get something roughly equivalent to a single-scroll turbo with the AR equal to just the AR of one of the two scrolls.

Sounds great on paper, I'm really curious how well it works in practice. The figures from the Supra site aren't directly applicable to Subarus but they are interesting. "GT42-74mm to be at full spool by 3700 RPM" on a 2JZ I guess, but still...



Last edited by NSFW; 10-05-2009 at 04:23 AM.
NSFW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 10:59 AM   #10
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
You're misunderstanding the point of this thing. It basically turns a twin-scroll turbo into a variable-geometry single-scroll turbo. Variable geometry as in "you have two ARs to choose from."
thats why i said i want to see it on a single scroll turbine.

cause i do understand that's what's happening and it should have the same effect......

seems like you read the first 3 lines of my post, but not the last 2. The first 3 were basically "why would anyone end up with that setup" and the last 2 were "why dont they make it for single scroll turbines because speeding up the exhaust gases on a single scroll will have the same effect"

its just like putting ur thumb over the end of a hose. i dont think it has anything to do with single vs twin scroll. it should work the same on both.

Last edited by Phatron; 10-05-2009 at 11:05 AM.
Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:07 AM   #11
BUILTSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 204644
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: THESHOPCT
Vehicle:
2005 STi 10.7 @ 125
FPRED PUMPGAS 93oct

Default

hrmmm

this could lead to great things
BUILTSTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:13 AM   #12
WREX88
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 166373
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: CT/DC
Vehicle:
2002 WRX (VF-39)
BMW 330XI

Default

someone do this! seen this for a while now always wanted to see it on a subaru, being that lag is our enemy.
WREX88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:33 AM   #13
UFOpilot
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 189525
Join Date: Sep 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland Oregon
Vehicle:
2007 WRX Wagon
Invisible Plain

Default

Just fab a header system and put two td04's down front with a sump pan. Bang, no more lag. That is my project number two, which should commence over the next couple years.

The concept of this valve is interesting, so hurry up and do the testing on your Subaru so the rest of us can see how it goes.
UFOpilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 12:08 PM   #14
TDagen
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 163648
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Xona 78•64 UHF
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
V9 6mt R180 Brembos

Default

I was thinking today for awhile about this thing .... What would be more cost effective jdm. Twinscroll manifold or this puppy... Plus with the jdm manifold less chances for things to go wrong...
TDagen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 12:17 PM   #15
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

these valve setups seem like their favorite thing....they make an exhaust cutout too that uses it.

http://www.spracingonline.com/store/...ctivated_/3673

and damn, this things $500

http://www.spracingonline.com/store/...ool_Valve/3659
Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 12:21 PM   #16
Dubstar112
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 143149
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: No evo 9, no sti swap wrx
Vehicle:
2006 gmc envoy
stealth

Default

Just using a twinscroll turbo on a single manifold would by theroy speed exhaust gasses up to some extent.. as air gets forced through smaller aperatures its velocity increases right? Twinscroll designed hotsides have a nice divider plate in them that can be modified for efficient splitting.
Dubstar112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 12:22 PM   #17
Dubstar112
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 143149
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: No evo 9, no sti swap wrx
Vehicle:
2006 gmc envoy
stealth

Default

btw wheres the boost charts?
Dubstar112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 12:30 PM   #18
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

Without boost applied the valve is closed, correct?

So how did they dyno the car 4 minutes apart with "no valve" and "valve operating"?

If they just unhooked the line from it, then the valve would be closed the entire run, right?
Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 12:54 PM   #19
spoolinsti05
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 108051
Join Date: Feb 2006
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Oneonta, NY
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
thats why i said i want to see it on a single scroll turbine.

cause i do understand that's what's happening and it should have the same effect......

seems like you read the first 3 lines of my post, but not the last 2. The first 3 were basically "why would anyone end up with that setup" and the last 2 were "why dont they make it for single scroll turbines because speeding up the exhaust gases on a single scroll will have the same effect"

its just like putting ur thumb over the end of a hose. i dont think it has anything to do with single vs twin scroll. it should work the same on both.
I think for this to actually work It would have best results on a twin scroll since it's actually divided like a true VGT setup.

But yet it's not.. Because a true VGT setup is done with the turbine wheel itself.

Last edited by spoolinsti05; 10-05-2009 at 01:55 PM.
spoolinsti05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 12:58 PM   #20
kellygnsd
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32669
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Woodland Hills
Vehicle:
2007 2.34LR, EFR7670
LINK G4+ hybrid STi

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
thats why i said i want to see it on a single scroll turbine.

cause i do understand that's what's happening and it should have the same effect......

seems like you read the first 3 lines of my post, but not the last 2. The first 3 were basically "why would anyone end up with that setup" and the last 2 were "why dont they make it for single scroll turbines because speeding up the exhaust gases on a single scroll will have the same effect"

its just like putting ur thumb over the end of a hose. i dont think it has anything to do with single vs twin scroll. it should work the same on both.

I don't really think it would have the same effect at all because on a single scroll turbo you are not changing the effective turbine A/R.

Sure exhaust gasses will speed up to go through on side of the twin scroll valve but will then slow back down to its original speed(actually slower) right after before it even gets to the nozzle area. Its conservation of energy and has to happen.

On a twin scroll setup you have two equal nozzles that should get half total exhaust flow on a single scroll header. With this valve you're forcing on scroll to take all the exhaust flow and like it. Instead of full exhaust flow going through a 1.06 A/R housing it like going through a .53 A/R housing.
kellygnsd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 01:18 PM   #21
Junior2JZ
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 64908
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Tuning 8/9sec Subies all over
Vehicle:
10.8 XT+9.2@155 GR+
9.1/157mph 2015 STI

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
Without boost applied the valve is closed, correct?

So how did they dyno the car 4 minutes apart with "no valve" and "valve operating"?

If they just unhooked the line from it, then the valve would be closed the entire run, right?
They are controlling the valve with a AEM or ProEFI through a solenoid.For no valve they would apply constant pressure and keep it open, after words they set the solenoid to function the valve like it normally would.

Junior
Junior2JZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 01:47 PM   #22
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

ah. i see.
Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 04:02 PM   #23
CatfaceType-R
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 81102
Join Date: Feb 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Micro aggression turnt
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUILTSTI View Post
hrmmm

this could lead to great things
Quote:
Originally Posted by WREX88 View Post
someone do this! seen this for a while now always wanted to see it on a subaru, being that lag is our enemy.

my thoughts exactly chaps


ron-this DOES work and works very well, do some more research and let me know what you think.



JR-Do it up, I know you have a customer somewhere with a non split manifold and a twinscroll turbo


I also made this thread to let people remember the fact that you DO NOT need to run a twinscroll exhaust manifold to run a twinscroll turbo


This valve that SP has come up with(maybe not invented, but developed) will allow people to run huge turbo's and mitigate lag in a huge way!


Cheers guys, I want all subies to go faster; this is why I am doing a lot of research on different platforms and conveying anything that can/will help the subi family.

Since I only have a stock BMW K1200RS and it's not getting modded, it's time to save and do research

Where's engineer STiMIkey on this ?
CatfaceType-R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 04:11 PM   #24
blowbyu24
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 84482
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: PA / Element Tuning
Vehicle:
2005 STI.UR gt4088r
E85 pro comp sti

Default

i have a t4 twin scroll housing (.85a/r), if anyone wants to purchase to do testing


this valve sounds good in theory....subscribed!!
blowbyu24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 05:42 PM   #25
fastnoypi
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6886
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
MY01 EJ207 HTA35r
AVCS ON!

Default

interesting concept, i'd like to see some tuner data on the effects of possible increase in backpressure prior to the valve opening. The valve would have to be at a lower spring rate than the EWG spring when signaled off the same manifold boost source or a separate solenoid inbetween.
fastnoypi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Turbo on a non-turbo legacy 2.5 97LegacyGT2.5 Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain 26 04-09-2018 12:50 PM
Anyone ceramic coat their turbo, up-pipe, and exhaust manifold yet? Corn-Picker Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.5L Turbo) 7 12-24-2003 02:31 AM
Anyone put STI fog covers on the non-STI's? linnboi Interior & Exterior Modification 24 12-01-2003 08:14 PM
Anyone running cattless MRT turbo back? JDWRX02 Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 0 10-04-2002 12:58 AM
Anyone tried the scoopless look on their non-turbo GC8s? edkwon Interior & Exterior Modification 11 12-13-2001 04:55 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.