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01-05-2005, 01:10 PM | #1 |
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how much hp can a stock tranny for an 04 wrx handle
how much hp can a stock tranny for an 04 wrx handle without being abused
what is the perfect amount of hp and tq thanks
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01-05-2005, 02:50 PM | #2 |
Big Ron
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Your question is too vague for a specific answer. Read the transmission FAQ sticky at the top of the forum as it discusses shock load, which is the cause of transmission failure. That will give you the "answer", but remember there is no answer.
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01-05-2005, 02:51 PM | #3 |
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someone please help me out
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01-05-2005, 02:58 PM | #4 |
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just go out and buy sti ra gears or another form of replacement gears .. if you slam stock gears they will break.. if you add more pwr to your engine. theywill break. they suck. and the ratios suck too... it will be the best investment that you can make...your car will pick up and accelerate quicker with better ratios...even stock.
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01-05-2005, 03:02 PM | #5 | |
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I guess he wants a *real* answer? Exactly 261.52hp. |
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01-05-2005, 03:32 PM | #6 | |
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Unabomber did help you out...you chose not to follow his advice... |
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01-05-2005, 05:51 PM | #7 |
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Well I know of a 2.5 with RA heads making 400 whp and has made over 350 since early 02. Still going with over 100 runs at the strip. Then again, many 250whp cars have failed as well as fairly stock 200whp cars. Then again many do not.
Guess it depends on the driver to some extent. You see, if there is a material defect or something, it will fail regardless of power. If you drive bad it will fail as well. I would say if you want to go more than VF34 or so plan on upgrading to be safe. That is about 250whp or so. Also the car is much faster and much more fun with the better gears. I recomend skipping the possible install problems of building a 5mt an go straight to 6mt. If you are worried updrade it first. The 5mt is a second rate tranny by any measure. |
01-05-2005, 07:08 PM | #8 |
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you can bust your tranny with stock HP.
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01-05-2005, 07:53 PM | #9 |
Big Ron
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Shock load = HP + abuse x frequency. This I hereby dub "Unabomber's exploding transmission principle".
Since you can't or won't fill in HP, abuse, or frequency, you will never find your answer. This principle applies to the stock transmission, RA gear sets, PPG dog boxes, or the transmissions used in the WRC cars by Prodrive that are actually made by Hewland. How does Prodrive fix their boxes? They log everything and replace the transmissions on a cycle prior to breaking, much in the same way that Disney World does with their main street parades at night. Disney discovered long ago that a lightbulb will fail eventually. Find the failure rate/time, subtract 10% and replace prior to failure. This ensures that every night will have 99-100% of all light bulbs being lit. Consider your transmission the same way. Reduce the HP, frequency, or abuse and your failure rate decreases. Cliff Notes: Your transmission is a light bulb |
01-05-2005, 08:32 PM | #10 | |
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LOL that is a good way to look at it, |
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01-06-2005, 09:13 PM | #11 |
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Ok, I'll reword the question because I want to know. Assuming normal use and assuming that the tranny didn't come with flawed parts, how much increase in horsepower can the stock tranny take? I understand the above formula but we're going to assume that the abuse is not there and the the frequency won't be there either. Can the stock tranny take 20% more HP than stock? I've heard that this tranny was made for the older impreza that made something like 115 hp. Is this true?
Also, how many people have broken their transmission from hard driving with stock power? |
01-06-2005, 09:21 PM | #12 | |
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01-06-2005, 10:16 PM | #13 |
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What about the transmission being built for the older impreza?
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01-06-2005, 10:57 PM | #14 | |
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01-06-2005, 11:12 PM | #15 |
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At a recent Subaru meet, we had the Regional Technical Trainer for SOA fly up from Atlanta to speak to us in VA Beach. She said according to SOA stats, 97% of transmission related failures in Subarus are from drivers aged 16-21.
That being said, even at stock power levels, if you drive like an idiot or drive poorly a lot, your tranny will go boom. It's not about power or technique or frequency, it's about the combination that makes your tranny go boom. |
01-06-2005, 11:12 PM | #16 |
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Well the ej 5spd was origanley designed way back in the very late 80s, and was made for the 89-002.2 liter NA legacy 130 horse and around 130 ft pounds of tree trunk pulling torq it was then used o the 91-94 ej22t U.S. 160 horse, and 180 ft pounds of torq, and it was also used in the 93-??ej18 in the Impreza 110 hp, around 110 ft pounds. There have been only small revisions to the 5spd throught out its whole life, better syncros, and a stiffer case by adding the 2 more bolts in 96, or 97. Some people say that it was designed for the 93 Impreza ej18 but i don't see how when its the same trannie used on the 89 legacy, and 89 tubro legacy. I would have to say since the trannie was made in the forseable future of the legacy turbo that it was designed for that power level 160 horse 180 ft pounds or more since other countries besides the U.S. got the hotter ej20T. But the true roots of this trannie go way back back to the 5spd that Subaru used with the way older 80 subies. Subosibley has a very similar front diff that might be the same. So basicley this trannie has been using over 20 year old technolegy for a while now.
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01-07-2005, 12:19 AM | #17 |
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wrxsubaru - thanks, that's what I was looking for.
As far as the 16-21 year old thing, does that only apply to Subaru's? I'm 27 and I have an Integra that I drive like I'm 16, I autocross in, and I've never had to touch anything that has to do with the tranny. It has 92k miles and the clutch is still strong. The reason for my inquiry is that I've heard the WRX's weakspot is the transmission. Is this true? I don't want to have to baby the car, and I'll be atleast Cobb stage 1 and maybe even stage 2 very soon. Plus I want to autocross. |
01-07-2005, 12:40 AM | #18 |
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Just a quick note for clarity, trannies only see torque, HP is pretty much just a fancy number derived from torque anyway. Find the torque these other guys are running when they shatter gears, that'll help you out more.
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01-07-2005, 09:18 AM | #19 |
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Those are SOA figures on Subarus only. That isn't to say that AGE is the biggest factor, but I equate this to EXPERIENCE. Speaking for myself, after driving a 5MT Honda CRX for 10 full years, there was still a definate learning curve between it and my 5MT WRX.
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01-07-2005, 09:27 AM | #20 | |
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01-07-2005, 09:29 AM | #21 | |
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01-07-2005, 10:21 AM | #22 |
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Unabomber - you know what I'm talking about when it comes to Honda reliability
ShadowX - Good point. But what about the people that have broken their tranny with stock power? WRXVT - I understand that an AWD car has a lot more grip so dropping the clutch at 5k is different than on a FWD or RWD car. Is this the real only thing I need to control? I mean as long as I don't do 5k drops and things like that should I be ok? |
01-07-2005, 10:33 AM | #23 | |
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1. avoid the 5k drops 2. Shift slow and gently between shifts, even if you are accelerating fast. When you shift fast in your acura your tires will chirp, on a subie the shock gets transfered to the tranny and diffs since the tires just grip. 3. Don't slam into any gears, and especially first gear- make sure it slides in easy, esp when cold. 4. When in doubt slip the clutch |
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01-07-2005, 11:00 AM | #24 |
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01-07-2005, 12:13 PM | #25 |
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The mere fact that people even have to worry about this is a problem. It is known as a "red flag". The 5mt is a problem for those looking to make some real power. Or it can be. Many people with more power spend much of the time worrying about it or crossing thier fingers. What kind of fun is that? Completly takes the fun out of it if you have to worry every time you do a 3rd gear pull. To me that was a problem and a big one. I want to drive at a track event like it was meant to be there. I replaced it, problem solved.
Did I run my 03 with "stage 4" and a 5mt, Yes sure did. Did I have problems, no. Did I expect to have problems, no if I was carfull. Did I worry an awful lot, yes. Slip the clutch man! Do not put in grippy drag clutches in a 5mt. Stay with a stock or STi clutch to allow maximum control over slippage. I sliped it going into 2nd and 3rd gear all the time. I know cars with close to 400 whp on a 5mt so it is possible for sure. For me it was "it is worth it to not have to worry". Ever wonder why STi's get the 6mt? Many have not actually seen the 5mt. Take a look next to the 6mt if you have never seen it. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...earset+compare Last edited by ebeck; 01-07-2005 at 12:22 PM. |
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