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Old 08-03-2009, 12:40 PM   #51
dch
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A couple of things:

1) A minimum weight was enforced for all cars.
2) 40mm restrictors were enforced for all cars.
3) Sequential gearboxes were allowed, but they had to be manually actuated (no paddle shifters). Spark cut was allowed, but that's about the extent of any fancy gearbox stuff.

The Fiestas may have been able to make 800hp in their original trim, but not with the restrictors. 30 pounds of boost, 50 pounds of boost, really doesn't matter that much because you can only get so much air through that thing and excess pressure just causes heat.

The Fiestas had sequential gearboxes. SRT was testing with sequentials earlier in the year, I don't know if they stuck with them or went with a more standard gearbox.

The Fiestas had mechanical center diffs, the Subarus had the electronic STi center diffs. The Fiestas were much more difficult to turn in because if you touch the throttle the center locks and you have to lift off to get them to turn, then modulate the throttle through the corners to control rotation. The Subarus are much easier to drive in the twisty stuff. As Tanner said on one of the blogs, you have to drive the Fiesta very aggressively or it doesn't want to play at all.

So there was no "cheating", no weight advantage, no horsepower advantage outside of what could be tuned through the 40mm restrictor and it was never a foregone conclusion that one make of car would trounce the other. If anything I would have guessed the Subarus would have an easier time of it because of how tight the course was. It looks to me like driver errors were a much bigger contributing factor than what type of car they were in.

As for the format and rules and so forth, it's an ESPN TV show that happens to contain some cars similar to those we use in rallies. The fact that it's broadcast live plays a big part in why things are set up the way they are. It's just a show, not a rally.

Cheers,
-Doug
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Old 08-03-2009, 12:44 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Token-Negro View Post
+1 Id like to see that also
how could it be better then when they had colin mcrae.. if he had broken a tie rod.. i think he would have gone on till the wheel came off.
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Old 08-03-2009, 12:47 PM   #53
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im not sure if it has been mentioned here yet but the fiestas all had to add over 200 lbs of led weight to bring them up to the minimum weight requirement. that being said, im not sure if they were still lighter than the subies/evos or not.
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Old 08-03-2009, 12:53 PM   #54
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im not sure if it has been mentioned here yet but the fiestas all had to add over 200 lbs of led weight to bring them up to the minimum weight requirement. that being said, im not sure if they were still lighter than the subies/evos or not.
was the power turned down? the announcer kept saying 800 hp.. which is the hill climb trim.
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Old 08-03-2009, 12:57 PM   #55
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I highly doubt they were in 800HP trim. Travis was able to keep up with Brack easily. It was the poor driving of the other drivers which made it look like it was super overpoewrd.
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Old 08-03-2009, 01:00 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by StuBeck View Post
I highly doubt they were in 800HP trim. Travis was able to keep up with Brack easily. It was the poor driving of the other drivers which made it look like it was super overpoewrd.
the straights the car definitely had to have more power.. seemed to catch all the cars on the straights.
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Old 08-03-2009, 01:06 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi-MAN View Post
how could it be better then when they had colin mcrae.. if he had broken a tie rod.. i think he would have gone on till the wheel came off.
Ya well unfortunately that can never happen again. Solberg would still be fun to watch though. If you think about it the WRC drivers could just come out and have a good time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STi-MAN View Post
the straights the car definitely had to have more power.. seemed to catch all the cars on the straights.
You must have been watching a different race than me. The Fiestas didn't seem any faster than Subies to me. Just better driven.
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Old 08-03-2009, 01:07 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi-MAN View Post
the straights the car definitely had to have more power.. seemed to catch all the cars on the straights.
Brack had much cleaner lines going into the straight from the long corners. Notice all that wheel smoke from Pastrana? He was not maximizing his grip and getting a good exit speed.
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Old 08-03-2009, 01:20 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by AndyRoo View Post
Also, to me it looked like Ken may or may not have had the speed to clear the jump....I thought he didn't have the speed. And with a passenger he made the right choice IMO.

- Andrew
That is correct. The hit with the jersey barrier over the start/finish broke a rear right driveshaft and Ken lost drive to the rear, basically having to drive 1/2 of his run with front wheel drive only.
He had to do a very quick and responsible (IMO) decision to skip the jump, especially since he had an ESPN commentator in the car with him..He did continue the run putting on a show for the fans and TV and still beating Deegan, but per rules he was DQ as soon as he crossed the line..
Xgames is a lottery, congrats to Ford for the win, they really brought some trick prototypes to the event this year and SRTUSA drivers almost got them at the end...with basically production based chassis/drivetrains..
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Old 08-03-2009, 01:27 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flatovercrest View Post
Xgames is a lottery, congrats to Ford for the win, they really brought some trick prototypes to the event this year and SRTUSA drivers almost got them at the end...with basically production based chassis/drivetrains..
Very well put.

And why were you not chosen to do the in car commentary?? I always find your pace reading to be entertaining
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Old 08-03-2009, 01:31 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dch View Post
A couple of things:

1) A minimum weight was enforced for all cars.
2) 40mm restrictors were enforced for all cars.
3) Sequential gearboxes were allowed, but they had to be manually actuated (no paddle shifters). Spark cut was allowed, but that's about the extent of any fancy gearbox stuff.

The Fiestas may have been able to make 800hp in their original trim, but not with the restrictors. 30 pounds of boost, 50 pounds of boost, really doesn't matter that much because you can only get so much air through that thing and excess pressure just causes heat.

The Fiestas had sequential gearboxes. SRT was testing with sequentials earlier in the year, I don't know if they stuck with them or went with a more standard gearbox.

The Fiestas had mechanical center diffs, the Subarus had the electronic STi center diffs. The Fiestas were much more difficult to turn in because if you touch the throttle the center locks and you have to lift off to get them to turn, then modulate the throttle through the corners to control rotation. The Subarus are much easier to drive in the twisty stuff. As Tanner said on one of the blogs, you have to drive the Fiesta very aggressively or it doesn't want to play at all.

So there was no "cheating", no weight advantage, no horsepower advantage outside of what could be tuned through the 40mm restrictor and it was never a foregone conclusion that one make of car would trounce the other. If anything I would have guessed the Subarus would have an easier time of it because of how tight the course was. It looks to me like driver errors were a much bigger contributing factor than what type of car they were in.

As for the format and rules and so forth, it's an ESPN TV show that happens to contain some cars similar to those we use in rallies. The fact that it's broadcast live plays a big part in why things are set up the way they are. It's just a show, not a rally.

Cheers,
-Doug
Thanks doug. Always appreciate your insight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flatovercrest View Post
That is correct. The hit with the jersey barrier over the start/finish broke a rear right driveshaft and Ken lost drive to the rear, basically having to drive 1/2 of his run with front wheel drive only.
He had to do a very quick and responsible (IMO) decision to skip the jump, especially since he had an ESPN commentator in the car with him..He did continue the run putting on a show for the fans and TV and still beating Deegan, but per rules he was DQ as soon as he crossed the line..
Xgames is a lottery, congrats to Ford for the win, they really brought some trick prototypes to the event this year and SRTUSA drivers almost got them at the end...with basically production based chassis/drivetrains..
Makes sense...that hit with the jersey barrier was pretty solid.

- andrew
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Old 08-03-2009, 01:41 PM   #62
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IMO the cars were pretty damn even. If you watch Mirra vs. Brack, Mirra was damn close. When Foust ran Brack that could have easily been a Photo finish but Foust overcooked the corner cause he knew Brack was giving him a run for his money. The final was much the same way. Pastrana knew him and Brack were pretty even and was pushing, cut a corner a little too close and it cost him. A Subaru could have easily won if the driver had maintained their cool, and not panicked when someone pressured them. All in all it was a good show!
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Old 08-03-2009, 02:02 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RES_22 View Post
Ford didn't beat Subaru. A professional road racer beat a
group of excellent gravel rally and drifting specialists.


Yes it did... Just like Brawn and Red Bull are beating Ferrari, McLaren & Renault in F1... or are you going to argue that Button & Vettel are better drivers than Alonso, Hamilton & Kimi?

Subaru lost fair-n-square, don't go blaming the driver for it ...
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Old 08-03-2009, 02:17 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by STi-MAN View Post
the straights the car definitely had to have more power.. seemed to catch all the cars on the straights.
Watch the last race, he wasn't catching up to Pastrana, probably because Pastrana was the only other driving not going "OMG Drifting is faster!"
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Old 08-03-2009, 02:21 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Mariano View Post
Subaru lost fair-n-square
Subaru didn't turn into the corner early...
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Old 08-03-2009, 02:25 PM   #66
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Watch the last race, he wasn't catching up to Pastrana, probably because Pastrana was the only other driving not going "OMG Drifting is faster!"
i did watch pastrana.. try to look at the out field footage.. he was doing the OMG drifting.
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Old 08-03-2009, 02:51 PM   #67
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i did watch pastrana.. try to look at the out field footage.. he was doing the OMG drifting.
Agreed. The way I see it, he was driving it like a rally car. I don't think he was drifting for show. How many miles do the Rally America guys cover on tarmac a year? Not a whole lot. And to do it on gravel tires? Of course he was going sideways.

The most disapointing thing about the whole thing is not that Ford won, it's that several of the races never finished. Block was DQ'd, Deegan was DQ'd, Pastrana DNF'd. And with Deegan's DQ, Pastrana only had one full trip around the course before the finals where Brack was on his 4th?

I would bet any money that someone in the X-Games corporate side is very unhappy that between Block and Pastrana there was only 1 trip over the jump...
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Old 08-03-2009, 03:27 PM   #68
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While the jump is good for TV, it's also good for wadding up sheet metal. There has to come a point where it isn't worth the risk. Whether it is the risk to your body or your wallet. I can't imagine the landing would feel all that great if I had crashed earlier in the weekend trying to land a motorcycle stunt.
Regardless, the format needs to be tweeked, as this years incarnation did not deliver the excited of years passed in my opinion. I could care less which manufacturer or driver wins, so long as it's entertaining and more people finish than dnf.
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Old 08-03-2009, 03:53 PM   #69
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I couldn't have cared less who won, just glad to see SRT-USA up against some good competition. TP's driving has matured alot, except that "early apex" got him....could have been a photo finish the way things were going. I can say that without the Ford contingent it would have been a serious snoozer...

Not the best X-Games "rally", but come on....it's going to be hard to beat McRae's roll against TP for excitement!
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Old 08-03-2009, 03:53 PM   #70
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While the jump is good for TV, it's also good for wadding up sheet metal. There has to come a point where it isn't worth the risk. Whether it is the risk to your body or your wallet. I can't imagine the landing would feel all that great if I had crashed earlier in the weekend trying to land a motorcycle stunt.
Regardless, the format needs to be tweeked, as this years incarnation did not deliver the excited of years passed in my opinion. I could care less which manufacturer or driver wins, so long as it's entertaining and more people finish than dnf.
they never red flagged or gave up before this year.. remember last year i believe ken blocks tire came off the rim and he just kept going.. last year as well someones tie rod broke. but still ran it all the way to the finish.

I kinda feel less sympathy for these drivers since.. no ones forcing them to do the jump. they signed up, and know the venue.. there has been a jump in all 4 years of x games. i understand what youre saying, dont get me wrong.
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Old 08-03-2009, 04:29 PM   #71
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Block did the right thing. If he did the jump and destroyed the car and hurt the passenger (not co-driver) I'm sure he would have gotten a good talk to. Although I do believe he did have the speed, I still think it was a smart choice. It's not like he planned on doing it, he had a matter of seconds to think "damn, something isn't right here."

Pastrana could have kept going, he wasn't wedged in at all, he had room to move around. He just gave up. If it was McRae, he would have pushed that car to the limits.

The FORD's did well though and they are fast little things.Great driving from those three.

I was a little disappointed, but overall it was a good show
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Old 08-03-2009, 04:30 PM   #72
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Not sure how many of you have seen this thread:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...1817075&page=8

It's pretty comical.. At least in the Motorsports forum many people have a clue.

Maybe some of you might want to chime in on that one.

Rally On!

B-
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Old 08-03-2009, 04:41 PM   #73
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Pastrana could have kept going, he wasn't wedged in at all, he had room to move around. He just gave up. If it was McRae, he would have pushed that car to the limits.
Very hard to keep going the at the very least, the right front wheel was not fully attached to the car. Even with AWD, it makes steering difficult.
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Old 08-03-2009, 04:55 PM   #74
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Subaru lost fair-n-square, don't go blaming the driver for it ...
Not even remotely accurate. The two nastiest Subaru's there didn't win because one was slid into a wall and lost rwd, the other was slid into a wall and left there. Thats driver error.. it happens.. it's racing.

They actually had more mechanical problems with the Ford's. They couldn't even fix Deegan's properly for his last race... not that it would have mattered.

Either way, Breck outdrove TP.... Block made a mistake and took himself out of the race.
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Old 08-03-2009, 04:56 PM   #75
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I just watched the replay of Pastrana and he never hit the front of his car. He came extremely close but never actually touched it.
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