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Old 05-07-2008, 03:35 PM   #1
JSR
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Default 4th Gear Grinding on NEW Car!

I have a new 08 STI with about 750 miles on it. At about 500 miles I noticed an occasional (once or twice a day) grind going from 3rd to 4th. I was still keeping the car under 4000 rpm and these were not speed shifts, perhaps even slower than what normal shifts would be, i.e., pausing in "neutral" a split on the way to 4th. It didn't happen at all yesterday, even though for the first time I took it up to 6000 in 3rd once or twice just to see what would happen. Today, however, it has already happened twice. No problem downshifting into 4th or in any other gear.

I've read all the other threads on this I can find, here and on the IWSTI, including a number of excellent ones on what's right and what's wrong with every known kind of gear oil. Indeed, it seems this grinding problem (or similar ones) is not uncommon, and many seem to fixed with a change to a different gear oil, although it's disconcerting that one guy's gear oil solution is someone else's gear oil problem.

Any suggestions? I'm taking it in to the dealer tomorrow morning, but what do I say/demand when they come back and say, "We drove it and didn't notice the problem"? As I say, it's very intermittent, but definitely there. Will appreciate any advice.
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Old 05-07-2008, 03:44 PM   #2
Kean
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Even though they may not experience the problem during their own test drive, they would at least have a record of the complaint in the event something goes wrong later down the road (your covered under the 5/60 drivetrain either way). Just let them know the circumstances, frequency, etc. They will likely send you on your way (perhaps after a test drive/once-over) and tell you to come back if the problem persists and/or worsens.
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Old 05-07-2008, 03:44 PM   #3
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I would be a prick sayin I just bought this car I cant believe this is already happening.. getting loud. Lets just say they wont fix it, which im sure they will because its so new but call SOA and tell them what happened and make sure to say the magic words. "Ill never buy another Subaru again". Watch how fast they fix it.
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Old 05-07-2008, 03:46 PM   #4
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Your best move is to take it to the dealership. Also test drive with the tech. make sure it happens when you drive with the tech, Because if it doesnt there going to log it into the system as "NPF" or "CDC" NPF- no problem found, CDC - could not duplicate customer concern.

Out of curiosity did you install a short shifter ? Or mess around with the shifter in any way ? Did you have the dealer install a Short shifter kit for you ? These things will def help determining your problem. GL
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Old 05-07-2008, 03:52 PM   #5
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I had a similar issue on my 07 - slow shifts into 4th would cause a bit of a grind, usually around the 40 mph mark. I was at the dealer on Tuesday and of course they couldn't duplicate it. I was thinking of magically having some serious gear issues and roll the dice on a warranty fix. Either that or give me an excuse to have it put together by someone that knows what they're doing.

I forgot - and I have the short shifter installed by the dealership.
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Old 05-07-2008, 04:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubieStylez View Post
I would be a prick sayin I just bought this car I cant believe this is already happening.. getting loud. Lets just say they wont fix it, which im sure they will because its so new but call SOA and tell them what happened and make sure to say the magic words. "Ill never buy another Subaru again". Watch how fast they fix it.
Actually that is the worst thing to do and will get you nowhere. Yelling does nothing but close the ears of the service dept. Trust me, I have seen that plenty of time and the customers just get blown off and really accomplish nothing.

OP-
Best thing to do is be polite and understanding. They did not build the car. Until they can duplicate any concern, they can not make any repairs under warranty. If they throw a part at it w/o knowing what is wrong with it won't help. Chances are Subaru will want that part back and if they find nothing wrong with it, that dealer just ate that entire repair for free. Then if that doesn't fix it, all the other repairs are free and the dealer gets paid nothing. The tech wasted his time(which is money to them) to fix a car that was misdiagnosed. Let them diagnose it correctly. If they can't duplicate it, then it time it will happen. Just stay on top of it. Then again, they may duplicate it.
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Old 05-07-2008, 05:05 PM   #7
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as blackfang said, do not be a prick, do not demand anything because that will get you nowhere fast.

Ask to go with the tech on a drive to show him the concern. If you truly have a problem I doubt they will give a hassle if you can duplicate it for them.
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Old 05-07-2008, 10:24 PM   #8
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Thanks for comments. It's useful to have others tell me not to lose my cool, since I am pretty frustrated. For the record: car is completely stock, no short shifter. The odd thing is that it happens so rarely. Today I TRIED to produce the grind: fast shifts, slow shifts, high rpm, low rpm, etc., and I couldn't do it. Then, later, a loud grind going into, as always, 4th. Since it's so infrequent maybe changing the gear oil (Red Line 75W-90NS? Motul 300?) would help....
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:26 PM   #9
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I actually got a 4th gear grind for a while after switching to Redline 75w-90NS, lol. Now it's gone...not sure what the deal was with that.

My point is that fluid may or may not help. In fact it might just be a break-in issue...not sure.
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Old 05-08-2008, 05:50 PM   #10
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Royal Purple helped my tranny out alot, with slip lock additive. The Amsoil or red-line made it worse. Its actually a synchro problem, the 08's are supposed to have hardened titanium synchro's. My 04 had bronze ones. When I had my tranny repaired before I sold it, I was schooled by the tech as to why I had slop, and grinding into gears. My bad... not the tranny's.
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Old 05-08-2008, 08:22 PM   #11
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I have what MAY be a similar problem . . . . although I don't hear any actual grinding, the shift INTO 3rd feels rough sometimes and very different than other shifts, as if the dog's aren't lining up right. No other gear does this, and sometimes it happens and others it doesn't. It makes no difference if the shift is fast, slow, or at 2500 rpm or 6000 rpm. I'd take it to the dealer, but I can't even reliably reproduce it . . . its odd though.
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Old 05-08-2008, 08:46 PM   #12
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do not replace the factory gear oil with aftermarket fluids!!!! fast track to warranty denial. Maybe you should have them flush and replace your fluids.
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Old 05-08-2008, 09:30 PM   #13
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Yea just stick with the s gear oil
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Old 05-09-2008, 07:40 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxtool View Post
do not replace the factory gear oil with aftermarket fluids!!!! fast track to warranty denial. Maybe you should have them flush and replace your fluids.
Sorry...Incorrect. SOA's position on synthetic fluid was revised about 2 years ago. as long as same viscosity is maintained, and it is a certified fluid (ase...etc) No claim will be denied. Yes, I work for Subaru. Thank you. Mark
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Old 05-09-2008, 12:24 PM   #15
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Subaru customer support opened a case number for me, and I took the car into the dealer yesterday. Although (not surprisingly) they couldn't duplicate the problem (neither can I; it just happens every now and then), they were familiar with it, having had something at least similar on another 08 STI they sold and also had heard of it otherwise. They had apparently fixed the earlier one by replacing the gear oil with what described as a special Subaru oil. I was so sure that this was going to be the Extra-S that's been discussed here that I didn't nail it down, but in the event what they added was what seems to be yet another Subaru oil:

SOA635011 Transaxl Lub Non Jus

Does anyone know what this is? Is a "Transaxl Lub" a gear oil at all? By the way, can't recall if someone has provided this, but if not and if anyone is interested, the Subaru part no. for the 75W-90 Extra-S is K0322AA093.

Anyway, I picked up the car at closing time and, wouldn't you know it?, had one of my daily 3rd-4th grinds on the way home last night. On the other hand I haven't had any since then, and I've shifted from 3rd to 4th 45 times today (yes, I'm counting!).

I guess I'll wait to see if the grind returns. If it does I'll take it back and see if they'll add the Extra-S. Subaru covered the cost of the first replacement, and I hope and assume they'll cover it if the "Transaxl Lub" is not Extra-S and it has to be added.

Any thoughts?
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Old 05-09-2008, 03:09 PM   #16
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P.S. According to the service tech at my dealer who I just checked with, the stuff they put in -- SOA635011 Transaxl Lub Non Jus -- is Extra-S, maybe in a different container or something else different enough to have a different part number. Knock on wood, I haven't had a grind today yet, so maybe it'll work....
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:34 PM   #17
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Wait until it gets worse, don't mod your car. Bring it back.

I had an 06 350z with a synchro grind. I took the tech for a drive, showed him the grind and they replaced it no questions asked.
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Old 06-23-2008, 04:38 PM   #18
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Did yours grind anymore? Mine is doing the exact same thing. Always at a 40mph 3rd to 4th shift I think. It's VERY random and intermittent like it does it when it feels like grinding.
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Old 06-23-2008, 05:02 PM   #19
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Sounds like a defective synchro.
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Old 06-23-2008, 05:15 PM   #20
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I've got a weird 4th gear grind as well. It never grinds while upshifting, but if I downshift from 5th to 4th it will grind at least 75% of the time. I tried double clutching for awhile and easing it into 4th and that worked pretty well. Then it stopped working so well and started to grind a few times. So now I have found that if I need to downshift to 4th, i have to shift from 5th to 3rd (without letting off the clutch) THEN put it into 4th...it hasn't grinded once and I've been doing it that way for about a week now. Really weird though...I put in the redline fluid when I did my 30k mile service last month and it took the grind away for about a week, then it came back.
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Old 06-23-2008, 06:05 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfang View Post
Actually that is the worst thing to do and will get you nowhere. Yelling does nothing but close the ears of the service dept. Trust me, I have seen that plenty of time and the customers just get blown off and really accomplish nothing.

OP-
Best thing to do is be polite and understanding. They did not build the car. Until they can duplicate any concern, they can not make any repairs under warranty. If they throw a part at it w/o knowing what is wrong with it won't help. Chances are Subaru will want that part back and if they find nothing wrong with it, that dealer just ate that entire repair for free. Then if that doesn't fix it, all the other repairs are free and the dealer gets paid nothing. The tech wasted his time(which is money to them) to fix a car that was misdiagnosed. Let them diagnose it correctly. If they can't duplicate it, then it time it will happen. Just stay on top of it. Then again, they may duplicate it.
Just sayin nice guys finish last.. sad but true. Im not gonna beg the dealer for them to fix it either like it was my fault that its grinding. Subaru is a corporation out to make money. Plain and simple. You are the customer and if you have any knowledge of business what so ever then you know the customer is always right no matter the reason. Dont forget a happy customer will tell 2, 3 people about their good experience. A angry customer will tell 10, hell everyone they know about their bad experience. So yeah..
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:45 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSR View Post
P.S. According to the service tech at my dealer who I just checked with, the stuff they put in -- SOA635011 Transaxl Lub Non Jus -- is Extra-S, maybe in a different container or something else different enough to have a different part number. Knock on wood, I haven't had a grind today yet, so maybe it'll work....
extra s comes in bulk, they have special part numbers to bill small quanities, you cant order it using the SOA part numbers its for billing only.
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:42 AM   #23
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I am having the exact same issue with our Shop 08 STI. I was ready to chalk it up as incorrect clutch/shifting timing. Guess I am not crazy after all. I am going to toss in some Motul Gear 300 tomorrow and see if that helps.

Regards,
JJ
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:57 AM   #24
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I'm thinking of going Motul Gear 300 as well.
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Old 06-24-2008, 08:18 AM   #25
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Are you pushing the clutch in?
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