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Old 10-10-2012, 06:09 AM   #101
79letour
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Meh, it sorta falls on its face after 4-4500 rpm, so I woundt say it need to be wound up too much. The stock gearing just doesn't do a great job of keeping it in its power band. But its an econobox, after all.
I just wish the 6mt was an option like the cvt. I would have gladly shelled out another $1300 for better (and more) gears.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:20 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79letour View Post
The newer Jettas are, imo, definitely NOT "driver's cars".
I never actually said any Jetta was. I mentioned some VWs are. Nels made that jump to conclusions for everyone else (more accurately I said VAG cars and he quickly shortened it to only VWs and then specifically my old car in order to "win").

I haven't driven the new cheaped up jettas but I'm not surprised if they aren't exactly engaging. My MKIV VR6 started out with a good amount of body roll and was not that great at cornering - at this point not really a drivers car. after i upgraded the suspension it was great all around. plenty of power across the RPM range, a decent MT, stayed nice and flat through corners and generally just felt tight. my decision to trade it in for the impreza was b/c I wanted something with AWD, better MPGs, more passenger/cargo space and have it be trouble free for a little while.

I'd just like to point out a post I made back on page one before being attacked by nels:

Quote:
Originally Posted by M45 View Post
I didn't start this thread as a war between which transmission people choose. I started it to see if other people noticed some slight weirdness with the 5MT on this car and if yes if they've grown accustomed to it and are happy with the car.

Last edited by M45; 10-10-2012 at 06:26 AM.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:24 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79letour View Post
Meh, it sorta falls on its face after 4-4500 rpm, so I woundt say it need to be wound up too much. The stock gearing just doesn't do a great job of keeping it in its power band. But its an econobox, after all.
I just wish the 6mt was an option like the cvt. I would have gladly shelled out another $1300 for better (and more) gears.
I was a little surprised they didn't opt for a 6MT. Pretty much every reviewer of the car mentioned this.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:36 AM   #104
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As for the bickering, well I know how that is. Afterall, I'm the guy who has been personally attacked as much as anyone in nasioc history. See my oil consumption thread, or any of the many oil-related threads I've posted in.
You just gotta let it go and realize who is here to exchange ideas and who's here just to have exchanges.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:42 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79letour View Post
As for the bickering, well I know how that is. Afterall, I'm the guy who has been personally attacked as much as anyone in nasioc history. See my oil consumption thread, or any of the many oil-related threads I've posted in.
You just gotta let it go and realize who is here to exchange ideas and who's here just to have exchanges.
the oil-consumption thread? tl/dr

I read the last few pages. People are a little too wrapped up their cars for their own good. I'm here to learn about the cars and keep on top of any issues I need to look out for.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:23 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79letour View Post
As for the bickering, well I know how that is. Afterall, I'm the guy who has been personally attacked as much as anyone in nasioc history. See my oil consumption thread, or any of the many oil-related threads I've posted in.
You just gotta let it go and realize who is here to exchange ideas and who's here just to have exchanges.
very true
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:41 AM   #107
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I never actually said any Jetta was. I mentioned some VWs are. Nels made that jump to conclusions for everyone else (more accurately I said VAG cars and he quickly shortened it to only VWs and then specifically my old car in order to "win").
Some VWs, ah, OK, but not the one you used to have. Got it, thanks for clearing that up.

I was going to point out the irony, because those Jettas were not known for their excellent, crisp shifting gear boxes. But you weren't even talking about Jettas.

How stupid of me to jump to conclusions.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:53 AM   #108
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About the CVT vs Manual AWD systems:

My new theory is that the CVT has a definate FWD bias, probably 90/10, because the electronic clutch transfer system works so well there is no need to continually funnel more power to the rear wheels in conditions that do not warrant it. This means you get slightly better MPG from that type of system.

But Subaru will never tell you what the actual split is (I know in Canada they claimed 60/40, that is called 'marketing') because Subaru advertises all their cars (except BRZ) as all the time AWD, so if they start splitting hairs and telling CVT/Auto drivers that they are FWD biased, most of the time, it dilutes their marketing message.

Don't expect an answer anytime soon, unless some independent auditor decides to measure the power output by axle and provide the test results.

Not that CVT/Auto owners should complain, the system works so well there is no need to send power back in normal driving conditions.

But for you manual transmission drivers, 50/50 baby!

Last edited by Zeeper; 10-10-2012 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:00 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by 79letour View Post
Meh, it sorta falls on its face after 4-4500 rpm, so I woundt say it need to be wound up too much. The stock gearing just doesn't do a great job of keeping it in its power band.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on this, and encourage you to perform the following experiment:

Get on the highway behind someone driving 55 to 60 mph. Downshift from 5th gear directly into 3rd gear. The engine will spool up to approximately 4500 rpm. Then make your pass, staying in 3rd until you've pulled back into the right-hand lane. Once back in the right-hand lane, shift directly from 3rd back into 5th.

I think you'll find the car much more responsive if driven like this, and you'll find the car is in its power band for the entire maneuver.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:23 AM   #110
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Quote:
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I never actually said any Jetta was. I mentioned some VWs are.
My previous car to the Impreza was an MK6 (2010) Golf TDI (which was not a de-contented car like the new Jettas). I liked the clutch better on the TDI (the catch point was lower and more progressive), but I actually prefer the Impreza's shift lever. I found the TDI's shift lever very imprecise, making it difficult to nail a 6th to 4th or 5th to 3rd downshift.

I have no doubt that VW's DSG tranny is more enjoyable than Subaru's CVT, but I wouldn't buy either of them, so this is irrelevant to me.

Both the TDI and the Impreza handle very well, but I found the TDI to get more nervous feeling in hard turns when the pavement wasn't smooth, almost like the rear end was about to break loose. The Impreza feels more planted when powering through turns on rough pavement. I think the TDI cornered more flatly, but not by much.

The TDI's big advantage in terms of being a driver's car is the torquey engine. Even though the 0 to 60 mph times of the Impreza and TDI are similar (at least if the Impreza is equipped with the 5MT tranny, which I think I read shaves at least 1 second off the 0 to 60 time), the TDI just plain feels much faster. My guess is that in a drag race, the TDI would leap off the line and take an early lead, but by the quarter mile the Impreza would largely catch up to it. Regardless, the TDI gives an impression of thrust that the Impreza can't match.

Having said that, the TDI's reliability was a complete disaster. All the problems I had with the car were covered by the 36k warranty, but that car spent 3 weeks in the shop during the 27 months/30k miles I owned it. I was simply afraid it would bankrupt me after the warranty expired in 6k miles. I'm glad to be rid of that rolling POS, even though it was fun to drive when it was working correctly.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:23 AM   #111
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I've done my share of spirited driving, as zeeper can attest. Lol
It still makes power after 4500 but the torque peak is definitely around 4k or so.
As for the awd 90/10 vs 50/50, I do much prefer the simplicity of the traditional 50/50.
On one of my favorite dirt roads I didn't feel the cvt loaner car did as well as my mt. A couple times I swear I could feel the car losing grip and then the rear would grab, but it didn't have the same predictability that the mt has. Ymmv
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:28 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79letour View Post
Meh, it sorta falls on its face after 4-4500 rpm, so I woundt say it need to be wound up too much.
Interesting observation being that horsepower peaks at 6200 rpm. Haven't tested myself yet as I'm still in the break in period.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:29 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by 79letour View Post
I've done my share of spirited driving, as zeeper can attest. Lol
It still makes power after 4500 but the torque peak is definitely around 4k or so.
Please give the experiment I proposed above a try, and then get back to us with your impression.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:31 AM   #114
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Interesting observation being that horsepower peaks at 6200 rpm. Haven't tested myself yet as I'm still in the break in period.
Precisely. It's hard to have fun with this car during the break-in period because you need to keep the RPMs below where the fun begins.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:47 AM   #115
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While I am not trying to start an argument, your "experiment" is pretty much how I DO pass other cars.
Your experiment just shows that the gearing isn't *ideal*, as you have to drop two gears and really wring it.
Shifting points are going to differ with drivers, but usually, you want to shift once the torque has peaked to fully harness the acceleration potential. But with this W I D E gearing you have to compromise.
I still don't think its a HORRIBLE transmission, just exchanging opinions and ideas.
Anyone in Australia care to chime in about the ratios in the 6mt that you're lucky enough to get?
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:25 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ans2k

tried it, it didn't work.
What didn't work? The brake override or heal toe?
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:17 AM   #117
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The gearing is perfectly fine for what this car is.

As for peoples theories about 90/10 fwd for cvt isnt really theory when its documented. A 6 speed would be really nice and fit the car better but knowing how to drive it with a 5 speed can help solve alot of the issues.

Its also been documented and stated in many places that 4800 is the peak of the hp/ tq curve
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:28 AM   #118
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thanks
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:35 AM   #119
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Some VWs, ah, OK, but not the one you used to have. Got it, thanks for clearing that up.

I was going to point out the irony, because those Jettas were not known for their excellent, crisp shifting gear boxes. But you weren't even talking about Jettas.

How stupid of me to jump to conclusions.
even better I actually said VAG which would include Audis as well but you ignored that right away (very convenient). Regardless of what you think my old car's transmission was like since I actually drove it I can tell you it was better than the current impreza's transmission. Everything about it felt more direct. As non-sports car manuals go it was a lot of fun to drive.
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:00 AM   #120
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VR6 with a stick sounds like it would be a "drivers car".
I always loved the VR6.
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:18 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auskip07 View Post
The gearing is perfectly fine for what this car is.

As for peoples theories about 90/10 fwd for cvt isnt really theory when its documented. A 6 speed would be really nice and fit the car better but knowing how to drive it with a 5 speed can help solve alot of the issues.

Its also been documented and stated in many places that 4800 is the peak of the hp/ tq curve
Where is the 90/10 split documented? I've seen it on Cars101. Anytime the split is brought up someone with a CVT states they heard Subaru of Canada claims 60/40.
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:37 AM   #122
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I still lol at VAG!!!!
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:38 AM   #123
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even better I actually said VAG which would include Audis as well but you ignored that right away (very convenient). Regardless of what you think my old car's transmission was like since I actually drove it I can tell you it was better than the current impreza's transmission. Everything about it felt more direct. As non-sports car manuals go it was a lot of fun to drive.
I've driven them too. While shopping for cars I've tried a 1.8T, 2.0T, and VR6 Jetta and don't agree that any of them had manual transmissions that were head and shoulders better than the Impreza. Shifters are not a VW strong point and I know my FWD manual transmissions well having owned an Integra, Prelude, Mazda6, Mazda3, and 6 sp Accord. With the exception of the previously mentioned 3rd gear issue I had with the Accord, all of those cars had excellent shifters. I've been spoiled, and if you read what some people in here say about the Impreza MT, I should hate it enough to get the CVT. But I don't, I enjoy it, and I laugh at the idea of a VW person complaining about it's shift feel.
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:42 AM   #124
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Where is the 90/10 split documented? I've seen it on Cars101. Anytime the split is brought up someone with a CVT states they heard Subaru of Canada claims 60/40.
Being that he doesn't know where the tailpipe is, I wouldn't bother arguing aspects of the car of a technical nature with him/her.
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:18 PM   #125
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I've driven them too. While shopping for cars I've tried a 1.8T, 2.0T, and VR6 Jetta and don't agree that any of them had manual transmissions that were head and shoulders better than the Impreza. Shifters are not a VW strong point and I know my FWD manual transmissions well having owned an Integra, Prelude, Mazda6, Mazda3, and 6 sp Accord. With the exception of the previously mentioned 3rd gear issue I had with the Accord, all of those cars had excellent shifters. I've been spoiled, and if you read what some people in here say about the Impreza MT, I should hate it enough to get the CVT. But I don't, I enjoy it, and I laugh at the idea of a VW person complaining about it's shift feel.
the clutch (part of shifting last time I checked) was my main complaint regarding the impreza MT. I actually went into a grocery store parking lot during my test drive and took off from a stop a bunch of times to make sure I didn't just need a little bit of practice on that particular clutch. this only cemented my opinion of the car. Also - despite what you say - it was less smooth shifting through the gears than my VR6 was - not a whole lot less, but less. I drove them literally minutes apart from each other which I doubt you did. I wasn't operating from a memory of driving a car months or years prior. The comparison was as direct as you can get. I wanted to like the MT - it actually took me a couple of days of consideration to finally let go of the idea of getting a MT with this car. I couldn't get past it - plain and simple. I'm glad most of you guys didn't have a problem with it. hard for nels to get that I guess.
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