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Old 05-10-2006, 12:34 AM   #1
pinkrobe
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Question Motor Oil in Calgary

Hey lads and lasses, I'm changing my oil on Saturday. Anyone know where to get full synth [i.e. Mobil 1 or Quaker State "300 HP STi" ] for a reasonable price in Calgary?
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Last edited by pinkrobe; 05-10-2006 at 12:35 AM. Reason: lasses
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Old 05-10-2006, 10:33 AM   #2
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CT, Walmart, pretty much anywhere.
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Old 05-10-2006, 10:50 AM   #3
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If you need a Subaru oil filter I've got a spare one you can have off me (I can bring it tonight).

If you want to go with a Fram you'll have to go to Auto Value to get the right one.

-J
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Old 05-10-2006, 11:06 AM   #4
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Superstore has it pretty cheap
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Old 05-10-2006, 11:16 AM   #5
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Question for you Dave... is this the first time the car will see synthetic? If so, I wouldn't do it. Older engines that didn't run syn from the second or third oil change probably shouldn't change to it as there is the potential for blow-by and high oil consumption. If the car has only seen regular oil then I'd stick with that.
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Old 05-10-2006, 11:27 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejean
Question for you Dave... is this the first time the car will see synthetic? If so, I wouldn't do it. Older engines that didn't run syn from the second or third oil change probably shouldn't change to it as there is the potential for blow-by and high oil consumption. If the car has only seen regular oil then I'd stick with that.
WRX is supposed to have synthetic since day 1. , so I am hoping he should already have it in there.
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Old 05-10-2006, 11:34 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIDEYWrX
WRX is supposed to have synthetic since day 1. , so I am hoping he should already have it in there.
Actually, no. Mine had regular oil until the second oil change at which point I made the decision to switch to synthetic. I know many people who have stuck with regular oil. That being said, the dealers in Cgy may do things differently than Hfx.
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Old 05-10-2006, 12:37 PM   #8
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Can Tire had a sale on Mobil 1 syn like $40 for a case(6L) I don't know if it still on, needless to say I bought a couple.
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Old 05-10-2006, 02:19 PM   #9
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I'll swing by Crappy Tire on Friday and see what they have. Kevin, I have some oil filters already, but thanks anyway.

As far as my oil use in the past, I've been using full synth since the day I picked up the car used. I have no idea what was used in it before. I've put ~45k on it [it's at 107k now], and there has been close to zero oil consumption. As to when the best time to change to synthetic is, Unabomber's Oil FAQ says that it doesn't matter. My personal experience on NA cars is that they run smoother on synth, especially if they're really old. For example, I had an ancient Honda Civic that could barely get to 110 on my bi-weekly nookie run to Edmonton. Two weeks after switching to synth, it could do 130 and it used less gas. YMMV...
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Old 05-10-2006, 03:39 PM   #10
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What I suggested is only what I was told by the "Master Tech" back in Hfx. Made sense to me... older engine on lesser oil = more wear = blow-by if you switch to synthetic because its thinner. If thats not the case, then I stand corrected and so does the so-called "Master Tech".
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Old 05-10-2006, 08:05 PM   #11
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Didn't mean to get all official on you, waving my "Unabomber Oil FAQ" around like I'm all that and a bag of chips.

My impression has always been that regular oil isn't as slippery at the limits of its performance, so there is some friction on a brand new engine that allows all the parts to smooth out any rough edges and get along real nice. Sort of like red wine at a hot tub party. But I digress... Once the parts are all fitting smooth and such, then you can switch to synth, which allows for a lower coefficient of friction. That's just my understanding, which could very well be a MIS-understanding...
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Old 05-10-2006, 09:39 PM   #12
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That makes sense too though.
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Old 05-11-2006, 12:56 AM   #13
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Wow, um, you guys really need to read this article about the oil that you all think is synthetic that you're putting into your Subarus. Don't put another drop of any oil from Canadian Tire, Walmart, or any other chain store until you read this in it's entirety. If you guys really love your WRX you will read this and learn, then go buy some real "ester" synthetic from VP Racing or Motul.

-Dave

It is the "FULL" unedited transcript of the article written by John Rowland (Chief R&D Chemist for Silkolene) with 40 years experience.

It is great educational reading as it is written by a Chemist, not a Salesman so totally based in facts - If you do one thing, read this, it's worth it!

Lubricating the Subaru:

Basically, to use that irritating in-word, engine lubrication is simple, and consequently boring. So I intend to treat the subject “complicatedly”, which may not be an in-word, but makes life far more interesting!

So, to take a quick look at the simple picture; the oil keeps moving parts apart, reducing friction and carrying away heat. Where there is metal-to-metal contact there are chemicals in the oil to reduce damage. Because the internal combustion process is always less than perfect, some soot is produced and this must be washed off the pistons and rings by the oil, so it has a cleaning or detergent function as well.

The trouble is, all this is just as true for Henry Ford’s original Model T engine as it is for the Subaru or any other high output motor. So where is the difference? The Model T, with 10bhp/litre at 2,000rpm and a single underhead camshaft, was filled with a thick, greenish liquid from somewhere near the bottom of the distillation colums on the Pennsylvania oilfields. It did a vague tour of the internals by guesswork (there was no oil pump) at a temperature around 50 degC, and lasted for 1,000 miles. On the plus side, some of the impurities acted as anti-wear and detergent chemicals. They didn’t work very well, but it was better than nothing. The engine wore out in around 20,000 miles, but even ordinary people, not just amateur rally drivers, were happy to put up with this.

The difference begins with the first turn of the key. The modern high-pressure pump would cavitate on the old heavy monogrades, starving the bearings for a vital couple of seconds, even in warm weather. Likewise, cam lobes would suffer as the sluggish oil found its way along narrow oil ways to the valve gear. The turbo bearing (if fitted as the handbooks say) already spinning fast, would also starve, and when it got going, how long would it be before the heat soak-back fried the primitive oil into a lump of carbon? (This was the problem with “modern” oils only 15 years ago).

So, a good oil must be quite low in viscosity even in the cold, so that it gets around the engine in a fraction of a second on start-up. On the other hand, it must protect engine components (piston rings for example) at temperatures up to 300 degC without evaporating or carbonizing, and maintain oil pressure.

Unmodified thin oils simply can’t manage this balancing act. The answer is to use a mixture of thin oil and temperature-sensitive polymer, so as the thin oil gets even thinner with increasing temperatures as the engine warms up, the polymer expands and fights back, keeping the viscosity at a reasonable level to hold oil pressure and film thickness on the bearings. This is called a multi-grade.

But, this is all too basic! What I have just written was and is relevant to a 1958 Morris Minor.

The questions that Subaru owners need to ask are: Will this thin oil evaporate and be drawn into the intake manifold (via the closed circuit crankcase ventilation), leading to combustion chamber deposits and de-activated catalysts?? and ?Will the polymer shear down at high engine revolutions and high temperatures, causing low oil pressure and component wear?? and ?Will it carbonize on the turbo bearing?? These are 21st century questions which cannot be answered by a basic 1990?s approach.

BUT! Before we head into more complications, some figures???

The SAE Business (American Society of Automotive Engineers)

Viscosity is the force required to shear the oil at a certain speed and temperature. Oils work because they have viscosity; the drag of a rotating part pulls oil from a low-pressure area into a high pressure area and “floats” the surfaces apart. This is called “hydrodynamic lubrication”, and crank bearings depend on it. In fact a plain bearing running properly shows literally no metal-to-metal contact. Experimental set-ups have shown that electrical current will not flow from a crank main bearing to the shells. Also, the energy loss due to friction (the co-efficient of friction) is incredibly low, around 0.001. So for every kilogram pulling one way, friction fights back with one gram. This is very much better than any “dry” situation. For example, the much over-rated plastic PTFE has a co-efficient of friction on steel of 0.1, 100 times worse than oil.

Oil viscosities are accurately measured in units called “Centistokes” at exactly 100 degC. These fall into five high temperature SAE catagories:-

SAE No. 20 30 40 50 60
Viscosity Range 5.6 - <9.3 9.3 - <12.5 12.5 - <16.3 16.3 - <21.9 21.9 - <26

A decent quality oil usually has a viscosity that falls in the middle of the spec, so a SAE 40 will be about 14 Centistoke units, but SAE ratings are quite wide, so it’s possible for one 40 oil to be noticeably thicker or thinner than another.

When the polymer modified multi-grades appeared, a low temperature range of tests were brought in, called “W” for winter (it doesn’t mean weight). These simulate cold start at different non-ferrous monkey endangering temperatures from ?15 degC for the 20w test to a desperate ?35 degC for 0w. So, for example, an SAE 5w-40 oil is one that has a viscosity of less than 6600 units at ?30 degC, and a viscosity of about 14 units at 100 degC.

Now, those of you who have been paying attention will say “Just a minute! I thought you said these multi-grade polymers stopped the oil thinning down, but 6600 to 14 looks like a lot of thinning to me”!?. Good point, but the oil does flow enough to allow a marginal start at 30 degC, and 14 is plenty of viscosity when the engine is running normally. (A lot more could damage the engine. Nobody uses the 24 viscosity SAE 60 oils any more.) The vital point is, a mono-grade 40 would be just like candle wax at 30 degC, and not much better at ?10 degC. It would even give the starter motor a fairly difficult time at 0 degC. (At 0 degC, a 5w-40 has a viscosity of 800 but the mono-grade 40 is up at 3200!)

Another basic point about wide ranging multi-grades such as 5w-40 or 0w-40 is that they save fuel at cruising speeds, and release more power at full throttle. But complications arise??..

Building a good oil

A cave may not be the best place to live, but it’s ready-made and cheap. This is the estate agent’s equivalent of an old style mono-grade oil. Or you could get Hengist Pod to fit a window and a door; this is moving up to a cheap and cheerful mineral 20w-50. But an architect-designed ?machine for living in?, built up brick by brick, is an allegory of a high performance synthetic oil.

It is impossible to make a good 5w-40, or even 10w-40, using only mineral oil. The base oil is so thin, it just evaporates away at the high temperatures found in a powerful engine that is being used seriously. Although there are chemical compounds in there to prevent oil breakdown by oxygen in the atmosphere (oxidation) they cannot adequately protect vulnerable mineral oil at the 130 degC plus sump temperatures found in hard worked turbocharged or re-mapped engines.

Synthetics are the answer. They are built up from simple chemical units, brick by brick so as to speak; to make an architect-designed oil with properties to suit the modern engine.

But sometimes, if you look behind the facade, there is a murky old cave at the back! This is because the marketing men have been meddling!

The Synthetic Myth

What do we mean by the word “synthetic”? Once, it meant the “brick by brick” chemical building of a designer oil, but the waters have been muddied by a court case that took place in the USA a few years ago, where the right to call heavily-modified mineral oil ?synthetic?, was won. This was the answer to the ad-man’s dream; the chance to use that sexy word “synthetic” on the can, without spending much extra on the contents! Most lower cost “synthetic” or “semi-synthetic” oils use these hydrocracked mineral oils. They do have some advantages, particularly in commercial diesel lubricants, but their value in performance engines is marginal.

TRUE synthetics are expensive (about 6 times more than top quality mineral oils). Looked at non-basically there are three broad catagories, each containing dozens of types and viscosity grades:-

PIB?s (Polyisobutanes)

These are occasionally used as thickeners in motor oils and gear oils, but their main application is to suppress smoke in 2-strokes.

The two important ones are:

Esters

All jet engines are lubricated with synthetic esters, and have been for 50 years, but these expensive fluids only started to appear in petrol engine oils about 20 years ago. Thanks to their aviation origins, the types suitable for lubricants (esters also appear in perfumes; they are different!) work well from ?50 degC to 200 degC, and they have a useful extra trick.

Due to their structure, ester molecules are “polar”; they stick to metal surfaces using electrostatic forces. This means that a protective layer is there at all times, even during that crucial start-up period. This helps to protect cams, gears, piston rings and valve train components, where lubrication is “boundary” rather than “hydrodynamic”, i.e. a very thin non-pressure fed film has to hold the surface apart. Even crank bearings benefit at starts, stops or when extreme shock loads upset the “hydrodynamic” film. (Are you listening, all you rally drivers and off road fanatics?)

Synthetic Hydrocarbons or POA’s (Poly Alpha Olefins)

These are, in effect, very precisely made equivalents to the most desirable mineral oil molecules. As with esters, they work very well at low temperatures, and equally well when the heat is on, if protected by anti-oxidants. The difference is, they are inert, and not polar. In fact, on their own they are hopeless “boundary” lubricants, with LESS load carrying ability than a mineral oil. They depend entirely on the correct chemical enhancements.

PAO’s work best in combination with esters. The esters assist load carrying, reduce friction, and cut down seal drag and wear, whilst the PAO’s act as solvents for the multi-grade polymers and a large assortment of special compounds that act as dispersants, detergents, anti-wear and oxidant agents, and foam suppressants. Both are very good at resisting high-temperature evaporation, and the esters in particular will never carbonize in turbo bearings even when provoked by anti-lag systems.

Must Have MORE Power!

Motorcars are bought for all sorts of reasons, but enthusiasts like lots of power. To get more power, a lot of fuel must be burnt, and more than half of it, sadly, gets thrown away as waste heat. For every liter of fuel burnt, 60% of the energy goes as waste heat into the exhaust and cooling system. A turbocharger can extract a few percent as useful energy and convert it into pressure on the intake side, but only 40-45% is left, and only 25% actually shows up as BHP at the flywheel. 6% goes in pumping air into the engine, 6% as oil drag losses and 2-3% as engine friction. The oil deals with 97% of the friction; so reducing the remaining few percent is not easy. If you doubt that even ordinary oil has a massive effect, take a clean, dry 200 bhp engine, connect it to a dyno and start it up. It will only make 1 bhp for a few seconds. Now that’s real friction for you!

Oddly enough, people get starry-eyed about reducing friction, especially those half-wits who peddle silly “magic additives”, which have not the smallest effect on friction but rapidly corrode bearings and wallet contents. In fact, even a virtually impossible 50% reduction in the remaining engine friction would be no big deal, perhaps one or two bhp or a couple of extra miles per gallon.

Even More Power!

The place to look for extra power is in that 6% lost as oil drag. In a well-designed modern motor, the oil doesn’t have to cover up for wide clearances, poor oil pump capacity or flexy crankshafts, so it can be quite thin. How thin? Well take a look at these dyno results.

A while ago now, we ran three Silkolene performance oils in a Honda Blackbird motorcycle. this fearsome device is fitted with a light, compact, naturally aspirated 1100cc engine which turns out 120+ bhp at the back wheel. The normal fill for this one-year-old engine was 15w-50, so the first reading was taken using a fresh sump-fill of this grade. (The dyno was set up for EEC horsepower, i.e. Pessimistic)

15w-50

Max Power 127.9 bhp @ 9750 rpm
Torque 75.8 ft-lbs @ 7300 rpm

After a flush-out and fill up with 5w-40 the readings were;

5w-40

Max Power 131.6 bhp @ 9750 rpm
Torque 77.7 ft-lbs @ 7400 rpm

Then we tried an experimental grade, 0w-20 yes, 0w-20! This wasn’t as risky as you may think, because this grade had already done a season’s racing with the Kawasaki World Superbike Team, giving them some useful extra power with no reliability problems. (But it must be said, they were only interested in 200 frantic miles before the engines went back to Japan)

0w-20

Max Power 134.4 bhp @ 9750 rpm
Torque 78.9 ft-lbs @ 7400 rpm

In other words, 3.7 bhp / 2.9% increase from 15w-50 to 5w-40, a 2.8 bhp / 2.1% increase from 5w-40 to 0w-20 or a 6.5 bhp / 5% overall. Not bad, just for changing the oil! More to the point, a keen bike owner would have paid at least ?1000 to see less improvement than this using the conventional approach of exhaust/intake mods, ignition re-mapping etc.

Am I recommending that you use 0w-20 in your Subaru’s? Well, perhaps not! The 5w-40, which is a “proper” PAO/Ester shear-stable synthetic, will look after a powerful engine better than a heavier viscosity “cave at the back” conventional oil, and provide a useful extra few BHP.

The End

Last edited by gt4rally; 05-12-2006 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 05-11-2006, 10:34 AM   #14
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Interesting read for sure.
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Old 05-11-2006, 12:08 PM   #15
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So the article doesn't say that "regular" oil is bad or wrong, it's just that it's not as good as PAO/Ester-based synth, which costs more. Hmmm.

Motul 6100 is ~$12/L from PDM, while Mobil 1 is what, $8? Does anyone besides Tunerworks carry Motul in Calgary?
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Old 05-11-2006, 01:00 PM   #16
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So am I hearing that Mobil 1 is no good?
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Old 05-11-2006, 01:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejean
So am I hearing that Mobil 1 is no good?
I dunno. It's worked fine in my car for the last couple of years. That said, if I can try Motul's whiz-bang mega-oil for an extra $20, why not?
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Old 05-11-2006, 02:04 PM   #18
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Honestly though, Motul, Amsoil and all the high end synthetics are probably better for the engine yes. But will the average joe (that's us) be able to tell the difference in horsepower and how smooth the engine will run? I highly doubt it. I can tell the difference (which is probably psychological honestly) between a Motomaster synthetic and say, Mobil 1 or Royal Purple.

But once you start comparing Mobil 1, Royal Purple, Motul, etc. then it really really is harder to tell in my opinion.

So, is Mobil 1 "no good"? I certainly don't think so, especially if it's factory fill for quite a few luxury and sports cars out there.
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Old 05-11-2006, 02:10 PM   #19
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Damn! Another good point! I think I'll change out the tranny and diff oil while I'm at it. Does anyone care to discuss the merits of 75W90 regular vs. Redline Shockproof?
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Old 05-11-2006, 02:22 PM   #20
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pinkrobe - For Motul, try Techworks. They've got it available. The stuff you'd want from Motul is their 8100 series or the 300V (if you're feelin' spendy). The 5w40 or the 5w50 would be the better weights to use. The other place that gets Motul is Matrix Motorsports (parts @ Country Hill's Toyota).
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Old 05-11-2006, 02:51 PM   #21
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WoW! wOw? woW...ok...so....I am getting my first oil change as I’m coming up to 5k on the STi...after reading article and comments, I SHOULD....use a synthetic...5w-40 would be best and don’t go cheap?!?!...I just want to do this right as now I have a fresh slate to work from...so...is that right?

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Old 05-11-2006, 03:57 PM   #22
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I switched from Moble 1 5w30 to Motul 300V 5w40 a couple of weeks ago to see if I could notice a difference and because I wanted all the protection I could get for my new $6000.00 jdm motor; and I can honestly say it runs noticably smoother. Can't say I can feel a difference in power but I can feel the 'calmness' in the revs for sure.
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Old 05-11-2006, 05:01 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gold rush
I switched from Moble 1 5w30 to Motul 300V 5w40 a couple of weeks ago to see if I could notice a difference and because I wanted all the protection I could get for my new $6000.00 jdm motor; and I can honestly say it runs noticably smoother. Can't say I can feel a difference in power but I can feel the 'calmness' in the revs for sure.
Is that smoothness directly after the new oil was put in?

Cause pretty much all new oil would make the engine run smoother.
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Old 05-11-2006, 06:08 PM   #24
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you could be right, I was comparing it to Moble 1 with a couple thousand kms on it.
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Old 05-11-2006, 06:09 PM   #25
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You could be right, I was comparing it to Moble 1 with a couple thousand kms on it.
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