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Old 10-18-2006, 06:20 PM   #26
wonkothesane26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARKUZ STI View Post
Well i think you like getting pulled over by Cops, thats good for you.
House got broken into, stolen car, I been tru all of that, but if love Cops thats your Prob. I only like the show......

Be Cool Dude

STI 4 L


Say wha?
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Old 10-19-2006, 12:13 AM   #27
spooledyou
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i havnt gotten pulled over for my spt exhaust yet... i have had cops right behind me and not gotten pulled over... haha i always planned on saying it was from the dealership
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:29 AM   #28
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Glad this thread got a bump or I would have never seen it. That link to Unabomber's exhaust db xls list is brilliant. Some very surprising numbers there. I am still running the stocker, but planning on something with a little more gruff. Great homework he set us up with there.

And cops dont hate Subes.... they hate the occasional nutsack that drives it as if it were indestructible, heh. My 2 good pals are both cops and they love my WRX. One even thought about buying his son one (used of course) for HS graduation, but he decided against it cause he feared his son becoming a "nutsack", hahaha.

Only issue I have had so far with Popo is missing front tag. Waxed her up one day and forgot to put the tag back on, heh. Easy fix and was just a warning. Was a great opportunity to meet an attractive blonde cop named Cassy though.
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:50 AM   #29
WRX_tougue_squirrel
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hey im not required to have afront tag in illinois, atleast thats what the DMV pics show. and i got my japanese liscence plate(used to live in jp) if i put that on the front how fast would i get pulled over? hehehehe
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Old 01-31-2007, 08:17 PM   #30
chillin
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Old 01-31-2007, 09:48 PM   #31
Boogalo
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the discussion on that page is way more interesting than the actual article, and has better advice.
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Old 03-08-2007, 01:34 PM   #32
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Quote:
in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise.
who the hell decides whether or not the noise is excessive or unusual. i got a ticket in my town for my sti genome axleback muffler. i talked to the cheif and from what he said the va state law is a flippin huge grey area. his advice to me was to speak to a state trooper and see what his thoughts were do to the fact that it is made from subaru and is a factory performance option. i think its bull****. im sorry but you should be able to have a loud exhaust on your car. although i can agree with noise laws in certain aspects. if your going down roads in residential neighborhoods wot in the middle of the night then yes you do deserve a ticket. but otherwise cops need to get off there high freaking horses and do something better with tax payers money.
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Old 03-08-2007, 07:25 PM   #33
ButtDyno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WR_BLUE_05_X View Post
who the hell decides whether or not the noise is excessive or unusual.
The law does. In the next sentence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The law, one sentence after the part you quoted
An exhaust system shall not be deemed to prevent excessive or unusual noise if it permits the escape of noise in excess of that permitted by the standard factory equipment exhaust system of private passenger motor vehicles or trucks of standard make.
Note, standard factory equipment exhaust. Your "factory option" exhaust is not standard factory equipment (and with Subaru, the options are technically port installed, I think).

I agree that the rest of that sentence could be clearer - that's the 4th FAQ in the Virginia section above. But the rest of it is pretty non-gray. (Even if it includes no mechanism for measuring it.)

john
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Old 03-12-2007, 12:09 AM   #34
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One of the newer threads inspired me. I was thinking about how I would deal with this if it happened to me. I watch a lot of Law and Order, so I wouldn't take it too seriously. I don't know how this would play out in court, but if you wanted to try it it could be fun. It's based on the principle "never ask a question you don't know the answer to."

So, officer [x], could you explain the ticket you issued me?
-loud exhaust, bla bla bla
Can you explain how this part of the law is written?
-can't be louder than stock, bla bla bla
Officer, have you ever written a speeding ticket?
-yes
How did you know that the offender was going faster than the speed limit?
-few possibilities: radar gun, laser, pacing, etc.
Did the police department just hand you a laser/radar gun and say "good luck" or did they give you some sort of training in how to use one?
-training
Are you certified in how to use this device?
-yes
[alternatively for pacing] How did you learn how to judge a car's speed? Did the police academy expect you to know this or were you given training?
-training (duh)
So officer, would it be fair to say that without specific law enforcment training, whether it be for a radar gun or for pacing, it would be impossible for you to give a legally enforceable ticket? That without training, you would have no objective way of knowing whether someone was speeding?
-yes
Do you have a decibel meter in your car?
-no (or possibly, "decibel meter? eh?")
Have you recieved specific law enforcement training in regards to measuring sound levels?
-no
Do you know how loud a stock [whatever your car is] is, in decibels?
-no
So, given that, how can you say that my exhaust is louder than the one equipped on the car as standard factory equipment?
-

If he/she says "I know what a loud exhaust sounds like", there is a precedent for that not being good enough:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potter_Stewart
Quote:
To the lay public, Stewart may be best known for a quotation, or a fragment thereof, from his opinion in the obscenity case of Jacobellis v. Ohio (1964). Stewart wrote in his short concurrence that "hard-core pornography" was hard to define, but that "I know it when I see it." Usually dropped from the quote is the remainder of that sentence, "and the motion picture involved in this case is not that." He later recanted this view in Miller v. California, in which he accepted that his prior view was simply untenable.
edit: One other thing - you can point out that Virginia tried to pass a law that would measure it objectively, but it died in committee. That would seem to indicate that the legislature did believe that the law was too vague as it is.

*shrug*. Anyone who wants to try this will get a shiny quarter from me. My guess is that a judge would cut you off before you got to finish.

john

Last edited by ButtDyno; 12-17-2008 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 03-12-2007, 05:44 AM   #35
SQ3.0dotJP
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now that the wrx has the spt model would that now make an spt exhaust standard factory equipment?
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Old 05-09-2007, 08:07 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRX_tougue_squirrel View Post
hey im not required to have afront tag in illinois, atleast thats what the DMV pics show. and i got my japanese liscence plate(used to live in jp) if i put that on the front how fast would i get pulled over? hehehehe
I've been driving around for several months now with an old German tag up front and a gutted exhaust...there's a few pipes but you can't even see them, so most people assume it has nothing. I drive like a "nutsack" as often as possible.

Why/how am I still driving?

To add something to the topic, about the exhaust.
So we know you can get pulled over for it not being stock, but I think when you get it inspected it also has to meet that requirement, at least that's what I was told, in MD.

I don't even really care if I have a stock exhaust, but I bought the car used from South Carolina and they have no emissions, so there was litterly just a pipe off the headers with a total gay, rice, 5 foot diameter muffler.

When I bought it, I had to get two cats to pass inspection in North Carolina, and about the muffler, not only was it gonna be taken off as a matter of pride, but I also bottomed out off road and luckily that was the only piece that hit. Christ was it loud.

Finally, I got a buddy who's a mechanic to weild me up an exhaust after the cats for 70 bucks. We just took spare pipe laying around and attached it to a spare muffler laying around. Also, we had limited pipe so point is, the exhaust ends before the rear axle.

I'm gonna be dreading making/buying a new exhaust to pass inspection here, and I guess, finally, what my question was is this: How the hell do you know what stock loudness is when you bought the car used with aftermarket mods?

Is my only real option to just by the whole thing from the dealer? Or can I get creative and weild myself up a new exhaust that looks/sounds stock?

I'm gonna miss my stealthy (looking, not sounding) exhaust....
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Old 07-06-2007, 04:01 PM   #37
RacerX605
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Suby Owners: if you're tired of being harassed, ticketed and fined for modding your vehicles in the "land of the free" (land of the fleeced would be more appropriate these days) fight back by signing the Motorist Bill of Rights petition at petitionspot:

petitionspot(dot)com/petitions/ambor
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Old 07-07-2007, 02:05 PM   #38
ButtDyno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX605 View Post
Suby Owners: if you're tired of being harassed, ticketed and fined for modding your vehicles in the "land of the free" (land of the fleeced would be more appropriate these days) fight back by signing the Motorist Bill of Rights petition at petitionspot:

petitionspot(dot)com/petitions/ambor
Yeah! That'll show em! Nothing gets the message to local law enforcement like signing a petition on the internet that they'll never see.

And why did you not credit the National Motorists Association for writing most of it?
https://secure.motorists.org/join/Mo...lofRights.html

john
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Old 10-17-2007, 10:42 PM   #39
thunder_lizard_1976
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I can attest to the screwed up way PA does things.. their laws are written similar to MD ( and I would assume, many other states). Long before I ownd a scoob, I had A VW Rabbit diesel. by it's very nature, a very noisy car. I got pulled over by a local yokel, was given a warning for an 'excessively loud exhaust', which at the time was true.. I ripped the midpipe off just after the resonator on a speed bump, ergo, the car sounded literally like a Mack truck. two weeks, $400 and a new exhaust later, i get pulled over again, in the same jur-is-my-dick-tion, by a competely different officer no less. who proceeds to write me a ticket, for failing to correct the violation listed on the previous warning..When I attempted to show him the receipt for the work that was done to the car, he accused me of getting cocky, and threatened to arrest me for disorderly conduct. I promptly dropped my argument there, and went right to the station and the police chief, who quickly dismissed the whole matter in short order..i apologize for being so long winded about it.., but it goes to show.. police are only human too.. if they';re having a good/bad day, everyone they meet that day likely will too. And likewise, they are just as likely to be corrupt/honest as your local official/ politician/ congressman.. so every time you get stopped, it's a roll of the dice.
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Old 11-28-2007, 12:19 PM   #40
Zebe
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Old 01-18-2008, 09:52 AM   #41
no1stunna2k
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I may be like the only guy in DC that has a Subie (or possibly the only guy that has a modded Subie) but, what are the DC laws..I really havent seen anything regarding exhaust or mods... Any help?
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Old 01-18-2008, 10:07 AM   #42
ButtDyno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no1stunna2k View Post
I may be like the only guy in DC that has a Subie (or possibly the only guy that has a modded Subie) but, what are the DC laws..I really havent seen anything regarding exhaust or mods... Any help?
I think I found it:
http://dcra.dc.gov/dcra/lib/dcra/noise_regs.pdf
Title 20, District of Columbia Municipal Regulations, Chapter 28:
Quote:
2811 OPERATIONAL LIMITS FOR MOTOR VEHICLES
2811.1 No person shall operate a motorcycle motor vehicle, or combination of motor vehicles of a type subject
to registration under D.C. Code X40-103 (1990 Repl. Vol.) at any time, or under any condition of
grade, load, acceleration, or deceleration in a manner that exceeds the maximum noise limits
designated m the table of this subsection for the specified speed limits, measured at a distance of fifty
feet (50 ft.) from the center line of travel by a sound level meter switched to the A-weighting network,
in accordance with such nationally recognized test procedures as the administering agency may
prescribe in accordance with 2700.7 through 2700.9 of Chapter 27 of this subtitle.

TYPE OF VEHICLE NOISE LIMIT
35MPH Over Stationary
or less 35 MPH Run-up
Any motor vehicle with a
manufacturer's gross vehicle weight
rating of ten thousand pounds (10,000 lbs.)
or more, and any combination of vehicles
towed by that motor vehicle 86 dB (A) 90 dB(A) 88 dB(a)
Any motorcycle 82 dB(A) 86 dB(A)
Any other motor vehicle and any
combination of vehicles towed by a motor
vehicle with a manufacture's gross
weight rating of ten thousand pounds
(10,000 lbs.) or more 76 dB(A) 8'2 d(B)(A)
2811.2 Where a test procedure is used for which the noise levels prescribed in the table in 281 l.1
would not be appropriate. the administering agency may establish and publish a table with the appropriate
levels which are substantially equivalent to those established in that table.
2811.3 The public shall be provided with at least thirty (30) days to comment on all new
standards and procedures before the standards are made final.
2811.4 For the purposes of this section, a motor truck, truck tractor, or bus that is not
equipped with an identification plate or marking that bears the manufacturer's
gross vehicle weight shall be considered as having a rating of ten thousand pounds
(10,000 lbs.) or more if the unladen weight is more than nine thousand pounds
(9,000 lbs.).
2811.5 No person shall operate a motor vehicle equipped with an engine speed governor
that generates a sound level in excess of eighty-eight (88) dB(A) measured on an
open site with a fast meter response at fifty feet (50 ft.) from the longitudinal
center line of the vehicle when its engine is accelerated from idle to a wide-open
throttle governed speed with the vehicle stationary, transmission in neutral, and
clutch engaged.
2811.5 The administering agency may by regulation prescribe correctional factors to the limits
prescribed in the table of 2811.1 of this section when measurements are made at a site
that contains large reflecting surfaces in cle 3e proximity to the vehicle or noise measuring
microphone.
2811.7 A violation of the adjusted levels as provided in $2811.6 shall constitute a violation
of this section.
2811.8 In the event that it is impractical to obtain a measurement fifty fret (50 ft.) from
the center line of travel, the actual distance shall be measured and one (1) of the
correctional factors -in the following table shall be applied to the maximum
permissible sound levels prescribed in the table of &2811.1 of this section -
Title 20 District of Columbia Municipal Regulations
DISTANCE CORRECTION
Soft site Hard site
35 - less than 39 ft. +3 dB(A) +5 dB(A)
39 - less than 43 ft. +2 dB(A) +4 dB(A)
43 - less than 48 ft. +l dB(A) +3 dB(A)
48 - less than 58 ft 0 dB(A) +2 dB(A)
58 -less than 70 ft. -1 dB-A) -1 dB(A)
70 - less than 83 ft. -l dB(A) 0 dB(A)
2811.9 For the purposes of this section, "soft test site" shall mean any test site having
the ground surface covered with grass, another ground cover, or a similar
absorption material for one-half (1/2) or more of the distance between the
microphone target point and the microphone location point_
2811.10 For the purposes of this section, "hard test site" means any test site having the ground surface covered with
concrete, asphalt, packed dirt, gravel, or similar reflective material for more than one-half (1/2) the distance
between the microphone target point and the microphone location point.
SOURCE: Section 6 of the Distract of Columbia Noise Control Act of 1977. D.C. Law 2-53. 24 DCR 5293 5313
(December 30. 1977).
2812 ALTERATION OF MOTOR VEHICLE EXHAUST SYSTEM
2812.1 No person shall modify or alter the exhaust system of a motor vehicle or motorcycle in a manner that will
amplify or increase the noise emitted by the vehicle above the level permitted under 2811 of this chapter.
2812 .2 No person shall use or operate a motor vehicle or a motorcycle having an exhaust system that has been
modified or altered in a manner that will amplify or increase the noise emitted by the vehicle above the level
permitted under 2811 of this chapter.
SOURCE- Section 6 of the District of Columbia Nose Control Act of 1977. D.C- Law 2-53 24 DCR 5293 5317 (December 30. 1977)
@ "Nose Control Act"

That's long as hell. But it looks like they actually measure decibels. Good for them.


district of columbia noise control act of 1977
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Old 01-18-2008, 11:06 AM   #43
no1stunna2k
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DC Law sucks..I wonder if I will have to take off my exhaust during inspection?? Wow 1977...I wonder what I was around that time..I know I wasnt born...
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Old 02-25-2008, 01:01 AM   #44
ButtDyno
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Found this while researching VA emissions laws...

The actual text of VA's tint/sticker laws:
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...+cod+46.2-1052
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Old 03-19-2008, 12:58 PM   #45
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in Maryland, can they pull you over for tint alone?
A buddy of mine was just sited for 20% tint, and got a work order.
He was pulled over solely for the tint, and nothing else.
The officer said that they are now cracking down since an officer was shot by someone in a car, with dark tint.
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Old 03-19-2008, 02:00 PM   #46
Bluestreak2006
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^^^ That dark tint bullcrap makes no sense to me. In the past I have just been ordered through his loud speaker to roll down my windows. To easy.
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Old 04-18-2008, 01:11 PM   #47
ButtDyno
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Interesting post in an old thread:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...96#post4116596

Just says that it's the court's job to establish that you violate the law, beyond a reasonable doubt. To me that means decibel meter, etc. I almost want to get an exhaust ticket so I can see what happens.

john
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Old 10-14-2008, 08:12 PM   #48
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This may have been noted already, but during the dealer's follow-up call to see how I like my new WRX I mentioned that "the SPT exhaust is too loud and I'm sure I'll get a ticket." The sales manager called me back and suggested a few things:

1. Subaru states that the factory SPT setup is 50-state legal. It is not "intended for off-road use only" as some other factory parts are.
2. He suggested to carry the window sticker in with my user's manual to show the police if I ever get pulled over.
3. He said that the exhaust was installed at the factory, not at the dealer.

--

for my part, I'mm adding an aftermarket resonator to the bpipe since I personally think it's annoyingly loud as well and like to stay low-profile. But that's just my opinion.
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:18 AM   #49
ButtDyno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish44j View Post
This may have been noted already, but during the dealer's follow-up call to see how I like my new WRX I mentioned that "the SPT exhaust is too loud and I'm sure I'll get a ticket." The sales manager called me back and suggested a few things:

1. Subaru states that the factory SPT setup is 50-state legal. It is not "intended for off-road use only" as some other factory parts are.
2. He suggested to carry the window sticker in with my user's manual to show the police if I ever get pulled over.
3. He said that the exhaust was installed at the factory, not at the dealer.

--

for my part, I'mm adding an aftermarket resonator to the bpipe since I personally think it's annoyingly loud as well and like to stay low-profile. But that's just my opinion.
Good addition to the FAQ - the SPT is a popular subject.

There's a discussion of it in this thread:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ght=spt&page=2

Quote:
Originally Posted by me
I think it wouldn't take too much work in front of an objective judge to get such a ticket thrown out. norexyet wrote up an old case where someone did - it's in the exhaust ticket FAQ. I sorta want to get an exhaust ticket just to see what happens but unless I put on that straightpipe I doubt it will happen.

That said I think it's fairly disingenuous (sorry - "insincere") to say that something labelled as "for off highway use only" is "standard factory equipment".
http://www.subaru.com/microsites/spt...earGroup=02-07
Quote:
*Parts Only Limited Warranty
Intended for off-highway application only. May bring vehicle out of compliance with safety/or emissions standards. Can only be lawfully installed by end user. Click here for complete details.
http://www.subaru.com/microsites/spt...parts_only.jsp
Quote:
Originally Posted by complete details
IMPORTANT NOTICE

This Subaru performance part has been designed and is intended for off highway application only. Installation of this part on a vehicle intended for use on public roads may violate state or federal laws and regulations including those relating to emissions requirements and motor vehicle safety standards. Federal and many state laws prohibit the removal, modification or rendering inoperative of any part or vehicle system affecting emissions or safety. Violations may result in a fine of up to $10,000 per vehicle. In addition, installation of this part may adversely affect the warranty coverage on your vehicle.
Especially when you can't order a WRX from the factory with the SPT exhaust (presumably because of the above):
http://www.subaru.com/shop/configura...sp?from=topNav

The only options under performance are license plate brackets and key chains - no exhausts. That makes it at best a dealer installed accessory.

You could make the argument - it might even work - but you won't get any documentation from Subaru supporting the idea that it's available from the factory that way.
Subaru does seem to say pretty explicitly on the website that they don't expect it to be legal. If the dealer wants to tell you otherwise, they had better give you some documentation to back it up.

The "factory" thing is also incorrect AFAIK, unless Subaru has changed it in the last few years. Subaru installs most of their options at the port I think, not the factory. However, when I do a "build your own WRX" on subaru.com, I *can* now add the exhaust, which is interesting.
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:31 AM   #50
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Join Date: May 2007
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: HR. Gangsta
Vehicle:
2010 STI SE
WRB

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtDyno View Post
One of the newer threads inspired me. I was thinking about how I would deal with this if it happened to me. I watch a lot of Law and Order, so I wouldn't take it too seriously. I don't know how this would play out in court, but if you wanted to try it it could be fun. It's based on the principle "never ask a question you don't know the answer to."

So, officer [x], could you explain the ticket you issued me?
-loud exhaust, bla bla bla
Can you explain how this part of the law is written?
-can't be louder than stock, bla bla bla
Officer, have you ever written a speeding ticket?
-yes
How did you know that the offender was going faster than the speed limit?
-few possibilities: radar gun, laser, pacing, etc.
Did the police department just hand you a laser/radar gun and say "good luck" or did they give you some sort of training in how to use one?
-training
Are you certified in how to use this device?
-yes
[alternatively for pacing] How did you learn how to judge a car's speed? Did the police academy expect you to know this or were you given training?
-training (duh)
So officer, would it be fair to say that without specific law enforcment training, whether it be for a radar gun or for pacing, it would be impossible for you to give a legally enforceable ticket? That without training, you would have no objective way of knowing whether someone was speeding?
-yes
Do you have a decibel meter in your car?
-no (or possibly, "decibel meter? eh?")
Have you recieved specific law enforcement training in regards to measuring sound levels?
-no
Do you know how loud a stock [whatever your car is] is, in decibels?
-no
So, given that, how can you say that my exhaust is louder than the one equipped on the car as standard factory equipment?
-

If he/she says "I know what a loud exhaust sounds like", there is a precedent for that not being good enough:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potter_Stewart


*shrug*. Anyone who wants to try this will get a shiny quarter from me. My guess is that a judge would cut you off before you got to finish.

john
Thats fine and dandy, but the vehicle odometer is calibrated every 6 months to be within 1mph of the read speed. So 'pacing' isnt an estimate, its the same as a radar. To be radar qualified, you have to be able to estimate the speed of a car within 5mph and get it correct. Even without using a radar, I can look at a car and guess its speed, with my car sitting still or moving, in day or night. Thats to go along with a 100% grade on the written radar test, which is NOT multiple choice or t/f.

You would be amazed at how much radar works FOR the violator. There are certain angles that will give a false reading, etc. Its not just point and click like people think.

Just a tip~
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