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Old 05-16-2006, 01:00 PM   #1
Oquipah
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1998 Legacy GT
Silver

Default BD Brakes?

I need rotors and pads for the Legover.

Suggestions?

Currently looking at Brembo or Powerslot rotors (slotted) and need advice on pads.

Driving style: spirited, no track or auto-x but would like to see an improvement over stock.

Not upgrading to big brakes (stock rims to remain).

Thanks,
Oquipah
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Old 05-16-2006, 01:20 PM   #2
mranlet
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You wont'd be able to beat the initial bite of solid rotors. Slotted rotors would only be an upgrade if you notice that you suffer from brake fade or are warping rotors.

As for pads, Hawk and EBC green are both excellent for street use.
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Old 05-16-2006, 03:15 PM   #3
Speedwagon
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I replaced my fronts with WRX rotors and brackets. Makes it easier to get performance rotors then. I'm using Carbotech Bobcat pads, on carbotech slotted rotors(all around). They do pretty well, but I haven't used anything else but stock so far.
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Old 05-16-2006, 03:48 PM   #4
Bakergtt
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I got new brembo slotted rotors and Delux pads from Primative Racing. They work great!!!! Real good price too
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Old 05-17-2006, 02:20 PM   #5
98_soobie
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get a set of used wrx brakes.. use stock replacement pads on there and your way. of course...using a better pad with stock BD rotors is cheaper..and just as good.
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Old 05-17-2006, 02:43 PM   #6
Patrick Olsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mranlet
Slotted rotors would only be an upgrade if you notice that you suffer from brake fade or are warping rotors.
How will slotted rotors help either of those problems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oquipah
Currently looking at Brembo or Powerslot rotors (slotted) and need advice on pads.

Driving style: spirited, no track or auto-x but would like to see an improvement over stock.
Why slotted rotors? They won't gain you anything other than increased pad wear, which is probably not something you're striving for.

Get some plain Brembo rotors and good pads. Carbotech Bobcats, Hawk HPS, Ferodo DS2500, Mintex 1155, Porterfield R4S, etc etc all work well for spirited street driving. I've used the last two on my car and personally think both of them are better than the Bobcats I put on my sister's WRX. But, there are lots of people who swear by the Bobcats, so who knows.

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
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Old 05-17-2006, 04:29 PM   #7
mranlet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen
How will slotted rotors help either of those problems?
Slots vent hot gasses that pool between a solid face and the pad, increasing cooling, which decreases fade.

Better cooling (from the above) will reduce peak temperatures, reducing rotor warp.
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Old 05-17-2006, 10:12 PM   #8
ballitch
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only if you take your rotors to the limit of their cooling abilities.....thats all slotted and cross-drilled rotors are.....just eye candy. 99% of buyers will never reap the benefits of slotted/cross-drilled rotors. if you want better braking, get a bigger rotor and better pads. but beyond that you are wasting your money and time.


~Josh~
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Old 05-17-2006, 11:35 PM   #9
Patrick Olsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mranlet
Slots vent hot gasses that pool between a solid face and the pad, increasing cooling, which decreases fade.
Find me one (reputable) company that claims slotted brake rotors will improve cooling as a result of venting those gasses and I'll believe you. Until then, I'll maintain that you're wrong. Slots (and cross-drilling) are intended to provide a relief path for pad gasses so that those gasses don't hold the pads away from the rotor. It has nothing to do with improving cooling, it has everything to do with improving friction (which would is kind of the opposite of improving cooling).

Pat
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Old 05-18-2006, 12:10 AM   #10
Jonathan
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Doing a WRX rotor and caliper+bracket conversion will still let you use stock 16" GT/WRX wheels but offer a significant increase in surface area for improved brake performance, although the increased mass will also increase your vehicles "unsprung" weight, and you will loose the ability to use the earlier 15" size Subaru wheels (although some aftermaket 15 wheels may fit).
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Old 05-18-2006, 12:52 AM   #11
Speedwagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan
Doing a WRX rotor and caliper+bracket conversion will still let you use stock 16" GT/WRX wheels but offer a significant increase in surface area for improved brake performance, although the increased mass will also increase your vehicles "unsprung" weight, and you will loose the ability to use the earlier 15" size Subaru wheels (although some aftermaket 15 wheels may fit).
The WRX uses the same caliper as most of the Legacys, so no need to get a new caliper. The only reason I changed mine over(caliper), was because I happened to get them with the brackets, and I had 150,000 miles on the calipers, vs ~30,000 on the WRX calipers. But they are identical.
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Old 05-18-2006, 11:00 AM   #12
Trin_Starr
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Are PBR/Axxis MetalMaster pads any good?
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Old 05-18-2006, 12:50 PM   #13
Patrick Olsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedwagon
The WRX uses the same caliper as most of the Legacys...
Which WRX, and which Legacys? The WRX changed caliper styles in 2003 (or was it '04?), and I believe the Legacys changed before that - maybe '01 or '02? The 2-pot calipers that BD/BG Legacys have is not compatible with the later WRX brackets.

Pat
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Old 05-18-2006, 04:32 PM   #14
mranlet
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Good thing we didn't bet on it
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brake...+Slotted+Rotor

I love you Pat.

And I also maintained that they would be an upgrade IF you suffer from brake fade. If you're not pushing them that hard then don't bother.
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Old 05-18-2006, 04:51 PM   #15
Patrick Olsen
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So I guess this is the part that talks about improved cooling:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tire Rack
IMPORTANT REMINDER: Slotted, drilled or dimpled rotors offered as OEM replacements should not be considered appropriate for high-speed track use.

While grooved, drilled and slotted rotors offer an enhanced appearance and add some resistance to the boundary layer of gasses that can build up between the pad and rotor, they are not designed to withstand the extreme temperatures that are produced on the racetrack.
Yes, I do see the part that says the slots "provide paths to disperse built-up heat and gasses", but since that defies the laws of thermodynamics (How is an open slot of air going to allow heat to disperse? Where is it dispersing to?), I think it's safe to say that's BS from someone in Marketing who doesn't know what they're talking about.

But that's just me...

Pat
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Old 05-18-2006, 05:11 PM   #16
skunkfifty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trin_Starr
Are PBR/Axxis MetalMaster pads any good?
yes, i'm running them now. they dust a good bit more than stock, but work very very well.

back on topic, go with solid rotors unless you want the bling factor.
flush out all your old fluid, its a big improvement if it hasnt been done in more than a year or 2.
if you have the time, money and skill (or the will to pay someone to install them) get some stainless lines. speed bleeders are nice if you do your own fluid changes.

all that = brake bliss
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Old 05-18-2006, 09:23 PM   #17
mranlet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen
So I guess this is the part that talks about improved cooling:


Yes, I do see the part that says the slots "provide paths to disperse built-up heat and gasses", but since that defies the laws of thermodynamics (How is an open slot of air going to allow heat to disperse? Where is it dispersing to?), I think it's safe to say that's BS from someone in Marketing who doesn't know what they're talking about.

But that's just me...

Pat
Yeah, I can see that.

However, when I have converted from solid to slotted rotors on my cars, I have notice a minor decrease in initial bite but less fade. Maybe it's psychosematic, but maybe it's hot gasses being vented by slots, I dunno.

Either way, solid are the way to go on a street use-only car.
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Old 05-18-2006, 10:14 PM   #18
etam
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slotted brake give more surface area to cool down??
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Old 05-18-2006, 10:41 PM   #19
MCarp22
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Cross drilled and slotted rotors are usually only helpful in applications where the rotors are sized correctly and have the correct mass. Removing mass from the stock sized rotors by drilling and slotting can cause overheating issues becuase there isin't enough mass to store the heat before it can be dissipated. Vane configuration in the center does a lot more for cooling than drilled holes or slotting.
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Old 05-18-2006, 11:10 PM   #20
mranlet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCarp22
Vane configuration in the center does a lot more for cooling than drilled holes or slotting.
+1

Slotted or drilled rotors have more surface area than solid.
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Old 05-18-2006, 11:14 PM   #21
mranlet
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oops
Pls delete
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Old 05-19-2006, 02:14 AM   #22
Speedwagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen
Which WRX, and which Legacys? The WRX changed caliper styles in 2003 (or was it '04?), and I believe the Legacys changed before that - maybe '01 or '02? The 2-pot calipers that BD/BG Legacys have is not compatible with the later WRX brackets.

Pat
An 02/03 WRX uses the same caliper as a 98 Legacy I know. And to the best of my knowledge, most all of the 95-99 Legacys use the same caliper.
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Old 05-19-2006, 08:21 AM   #23
MCarp22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedwagon
An 02/03 WRX uses the same caliper as a 98 Legacy I know. And to the best of my knowledge, most all of the 95-99 Legacys use the same caliper.
'cept for the early ones like mine, and the base model ones with the 14" brakes that only had the single piston calipers.
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