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Old 05-11-2006, 04:47 PM   #1
Shabib67
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Default Valvetrain Upgrade

What kind of valvetrain upgrades would i need to do to safely rev my car to 8,000rpm. I am building my engine up with the mahle 100mm pistons and crower rods.
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Old 05-11-2006, 04:48 PM   #2
stichris
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Also interested in the answer to this.

Chris
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Old 05-11-2006, 04:52 PM   #3
Shabib67
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This is off topc but dont feel like starting another thread. Where can i purchase oliver rods.
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Old 05-11-2006, 04:56 PM   #4
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helix cams and springs package from gruppe-s.com for $999 shipped.
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Old 05-11-2006, 05:06 PM   #5
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It was my understanding that the Helix valvetrain package is not for the EJ257.

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Old 05-11-2006, 05:27 PM   #6
Shabib67
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i dont want the cams yet, from waht i understand all you need is valvesprings and retainers. I just need to be reassured that this information is correct.
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Old 05-11-2006, 07:51 PM   #7
02Toyowrx
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Subarus and with most engines people change cams when they do valvetrain.

- stock 2.5L USDM STI cams - powerband starts to drop after about 5500rpms .. so if you dont make power or hold power to 8k why would you want to rev to 8000rpm's ?
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Old 05-11-2006, 08:25 PM   #8
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im going with a gt35r and built motor.
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:26 PM   #9
sjl1614
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get a set of V8 or V7 heads. I had these on a modded 2.5 block spinning no problem to 8000rpm
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:37 PM   #10
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DPR racing cams and kit... 274 FTW....

if you are going to be getting into the heads , why not just do it once.... go with the cams , search on results of cams with your future setup..
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:39 PM   #11
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cuz that requires me to port and polish my heads and im on a budget. So i might just skip headwork altogether and do it another time.
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:42 PM   #12
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I'll add that you'll also need to look in to oiling issues in the 257 at 8000 R.P.M, not just whether or not your valvetrain will support those speeds.
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:45 PM   #13
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im going with a cosworth upgraded oil-pump.
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:46 PM   #14
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I wanna ask whats the average price for headwork including port&polish new retainers, springs, shims buckets and whatever else that is needed.
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Old 05-12-2006, 09:23 AM   #15
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from what i've heard, P&P heads are not really the best bang-for-your-buck mod. depending on the level of finish, you can pay between $1000 and $3000 for a P&P job.

i am about to get a built 2.5 block from Gruppe-S and will be dropping in a set of Helix 264 cams and valvetrain into my 2.0L stock heads. i wasn't planning on doing it now, but would rather fork out a bit more cash while i have my engine apart, then later and have to pull everything again. sort of a PITA if you're doing it yourself.

not certain, but if you are paying someone to do these installs, the labor money saved in doing the heads now (with the engine) may almost buy you that Helix setup.

my $.02.
tony
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Old 05-12-2006, 10:32 AM   #16
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i want a setup that utilizies the AVCS like Kelford or DPR.
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Old 05-12-2006, 10:45 AM   #17
stiIV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabib67
im going with a cosworth upgraded oil-pump.
Delivery is one part of the problem...having sufficient oil passages in the crank and be being balanced at that R.P.M are another. Are you prepared to modify the crank as well? Just food for thought.
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Old 05-12-2006, 11:09 AM   #18
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To spin the crank faster:
Axis Racing drilled the crank
Bought lightweight Oliver Rods
Upgraded to DPR Racing conical valve springs and Ti retainers
Balanced everthing between engine block and driveshaft

It's still unknown if this will result in a reliable engine.

I really like the DPR conical springs. They are the ony conicals I know of for the Suby motor. The spring rate is variable so you end up with less wear on the cam than with doubles or tripples.
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Old 05-12-2006, 11:15 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabib67
i want a setup that utilizies the AVCS like Kelford or DPR.
ah, you STi guys with your new fan-gled fancy-pants AVCS....
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Old 05-12-2006, 01:33 PM   #20
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so you have to modify or upgrade the crank to spin to 8k or is that to do it safely?
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Old 05-12-2006, 02:44 PM   #21
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I felt that drilling the extra oiling hole on all the rod journals was inexpensive insurance (~$300 at Axis). If you read some the other high RPM threads you'll see that every single major engine builder modifies the stock crank or just plain uses a whole new crank. That list includes Axis, Rigoli, Crawford, Gruppe-S, and Cosworth. Do they do this to improve high rev capability? Some will tell you yes, some won't tell you anything.

If you are doing rods, the Oliver "Lite" rods are no more expensive and save you 4*115g of rotating weight. Titanium will be slightly lighter than these, but about 4 times the cost. When thinking about rods, keep in mind: torque weakens rods over time and RPM breaks them.

No one has proven that the stock valve springs are NOT capable of spinning to at least 8000 RPM, but again, if you have the engine out new springs are a pretty cheap thing to do. How does one prove valve float?
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Old 05-12-2006, 03:13 PM   #22
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hey bboy where can i get oliver rods and how much are they compared to crower rods. Also if i upgraded my stock valvetrain with the say dpr springs and retainers is as well as modify the crankshaft that should help me spin to 8k or are there other things that i need to get?
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Old 05-12-2006, 04:13 PM   #23
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anyone use the Ferrera Valvetrain set. Seems like it comes with everything and for $590.00 its a steal. Also anyone know whats the difference between endurance and drag?

http://www.evokiller.com/product.php...2&cat=7&page=2
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Old 05-13-2006, 04:47 AM   #24
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To spin to 8000rpm. Talking only about heads.
1-Go shimless buckets - no shims to dislodge and lighter weight.
2-Valve springs - Go to a reputable racing head workshop. They will be able to fix you up with quality valve springs at nowhere near the cost of some of these fancy brand name items you read about. Make sure its a proper racing workshop and not a bunch of catalog cowboys.
3- get the heads properly serviced ie; seats cut, seals, decked.
Anything more than this really depends on what power you are looking for, and how much you want to spend. It starts to become an issue of diminishing returns. You would be better off putting money into the turbo area, that where you'll find more power.
My 0.02c worth......
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Old 05-13-2006, 09:30 AM   #25
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Well im building the entire engine up and going with an Element GT65. I wanna also get DPR Stage 3 AVCS Cams and make power all the way to 8k.
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