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Old 11-05-2011, 09:54 PM   #1
blackops
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Default Problem: No illumination lights (Dash, dials, etc)???

Ok I am not sure what is going on right now.
I been working on my car and I was installing a new radio Pioneer 930BT touchscreen nav unit.

The only other thing I installed was hardwiring in the unit for my Valentine 1 radar detector, and a 3 port cigarette lighter. Both are wired to the fuse panel 10A points.

I was heading out to pick up dinner and realized that I did not have any dash lights at all. I then went to check and found out the illumination 10A fuse was blown.

So I replaced the 10A fuse and realized that as soon as I turn the headlights on it blows the fuse to my illumination lights.

I have unplugged both the of the hardwired items (valentine 1 and 3 port cigarette lighter adapter) and put fuses back in, did the same thing and as soon as I turned on my headlights the illumination fuse blew.

I do not know what could be causing this or what is happening.
I would really appreciate any feedback from the best and largest forum out there on what could be the problem.

Also I took the ground wire that was connected to the side of the stock factory radio and grounded it to the same spot on the pioneer radio. Again not sure if the radio is the problem or causing the issue some how.

But any help is totally greatly appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 11-06-2011, 02:09 PM   #2
SVXdc
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First, what model/year is your Subaru?

Second, please do not cross-post (pick the one most-appropriate forum for your thread)

The problem is likely a short on the illumination wire on your radio harness (pin #1). See links to pin-outs here:
Stock head unit information -- pin-outs, subwoofer, aux inputs, and more
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Old 11-06-2011, 02:17 PM   #3
blackops
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SVDC,
First sorry for the cross post I was not sure and decided that it was probably a bad idea to post in 2 areas. Should have just kept to the original post, again my apologies.
Second it is a 2006 Subaru WRX Sport Wagon.
My plan was the following

1) Install the Pioneer 930BT radio/nav unit
2) Hardwire my Valentine 1 (this was using a in-line fuse holder into an existing fuse i.e. front fogs, etc)
3) Add some aux power outlets (this was using a in-line fuse holder into an existing fuse i.e. rear fogs, etc)

I thought it could and would be the illumination wire from the radio to the stock harness.
However I have done multiple test since the post this morning

1) I unplugged the valintine 1 and aux power in-line fuses. Turned on car, turned headlights on, blow illumination fuse.

2) I continued to keep the valentine 1 and aux power in-line fuses unplugged and then also unhooked the Pioneer radio, so nothing was connected. Turned on car, turned headlights on, blow illumination fuse.

3) With the valentine and aux power plug unhooked, I hooked up the stock radio. Turned on car, turned headlights on, blow illumination fuse.

Everything having the same outcome. So now I have no idea what the problem is since when I took out what I thought was the problem i.e. the Pioneer radio that would solve the problem and also point out where the problem was. However now it seems like I am running in circles.

Any other ideas or anything else that could be causing the issue?
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Old 11-06-2011, 03:47 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackops View Post
SVDC,
First sorry for the cross post I was not sure and decided that it was probably a bad idea to post in 2 areas. Should have just kept to the original post, again my apologies.
Second it is a 2006 Subaru WRX Sport Wagon.
My plan was the following

1) Install the Pioneer 930BT radio/nav unit
2) Hardwire my Valentine 1 (this was using a in-line fuse holder into an existing fuse i.e. front fogs, etc)
3) Add some aux power outlets (this was using a in-line fuse holder into an existing fuse i.e. rear fogs, etc)

I thought it could and would be the illumination wire from the radio to the stock harness.
However I have done multiple test since the post this morning

1) I unplugged the valintine 1 and aux power in-line fuses. Turned on car, turned headlights on, blow illumination fuse.

2) I continued to keep the valentine 1 and aux power in-line fuses unplugged and then also unhooked the Pioneer radio, so nothing was connected. Turned on car, turned headlights on, blow illumination fuse.

3) With the valentine and aux power plug unhooked, I hooked up the stock radio. Turned on car, turned headlights on, blow illumination fuse.

Everything having the same outcome. So now I have no idea what the problem is since when I took out what I thought was the problem i.e. the Pioneer radio that would solve the problem and also point out where the problem was. However now it seems like I am running in circles.

Any other ideas or anything else that could be causing the issue?
First of all, unless your tapping your aux cigs and V1 into illumination circuits (which is a bad idea anyways), they are not the culprits. Which you've already proven by process of elimination, just saying they were unnecessary steps.

Do you have the 2.5L N/A or Turbo?

Which fuse exactly is blowing? From what I can tell on the 06 Imprezza, there are 2 x 10A fuses under the dash for illumination.

(From here forward HOT will refer to 12V+ on the circuit)
If you are blowing fuse 12, my guess is you pinched a wire somewhere. Fuse 13 would blow as soon as the car started if it was the fuse blowing. From what I can tell in this circuit diagram. Fuse 13 should be HOT in ON or START. Fuse 12 should be HOT in ON or START as well but does get HOT until the parking or headlights are turned on. There is a relay before the fuse the has to be activated by the parking light circuit before Fuse 12 will be HOT.

If you have a multimeter, I would recommend with the car off, hooking black to ground or battery negative. Setting your meter to Continuity and testing the 2 prongs for Fuse 12 (assuming this is the problematic fuse). If you get a tone, your illumination wire is shorting to ground somewhere in your vehicle. You may get some residual resistance due to the way the circuit goes through the cluster and what not. But if you have a short, it should be easily tested since you are having consistent fuse failures.
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Old 11-06-2011, 03:56 PM   #5
blackops
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I have '06 turbo WRX sport wagon.
I am not at home right now but yes if I recall properly it is fuse #12.

It is only blowing when I turn the parking or headlights on.

If I understand what you are saying, is I should pull the fuse for #12 and test the continuity of that fuse outlet?

If I check it out and it does have power, how come it does not blow until I turn on lights? Or is just cause it is little power and there should be nothing there at all?
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Old 11-06-2011, 04:04 PM   #6
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Also yes the V1 and aux cigs are in line fuse with fogs.

I have also pulled the radio out with nothing connected as well as the v1 and aux cig and it blew. When I turned on lights.

Tried again with only factory radio in and same outcome.

Do you know were the illumination wire runs to or where I should be looking to see where it could be pinched?

would it have to be behind the radio area?

Also where is the relay that has to activate before fuse 12 goes hot? I think I hear something clicking and activating over on the passenger side (I think, just going by sound so turn on lights).

Again any help and info is totally appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 11-06-2011, 04:20 PM   #7
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I'll see if I can get a diagram posted up soon....
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Old 11-06-2011, 05:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSVT_2004
I'll see if I can get a diagram posted up soon....
Thanks much appreciated.

It is enjoying and a big pita to drive at night with a led pen light to check your speed :-p
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Old 11-06-2011, 09:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSVT_2004 View Post
First of all, unless your tapping your aux cigs and V1 into illumination circuits (which is a bad idea anyways), they are not the culprits. Which you've already proven by process of elimination, just saying they were unnecessary steps.

Do you have the 2.5L N/A or Turbo?

Which fuse exactly is blowing? From what I can tell on the 06 Imprezza, there are 2 x 10A fuses under the dash for illumination.

(From here forward HOT will refer to 12V+ on the circuit)
If you are blowing fuse 12, my guess is you pinched a wire somewhere. Fuse 13 would blow as soon as the car started if it was the fuse blowing. From what I can tell in this circuit diagram. Fuse 13 should be HOT in ON or START. Fuse 12 should be HOT in ON or START as well but does get HOT until the parking or headlights are turned on. There is a relay before the fuse the has to be activated by the parking light circuit before Fuse 12 will be HOT.

If you have a multimeter, I would recommend with the car off, hooking black to ground or battery negative. Setting your meter to Continuity and testing the 2 prongs for Fuse 12 (assuming this is the problematic fuse). If you get a tone, your illumination wire is shorting to ground somewhere in your vehicle. You may get some residual resistance due to the way the circuit goes through the cluster and what not. But if you have a short, it should be easily tested since you are having consistent fuse failures.
I got my multimeter out and put it in continuity testing.
With the car off, I pulled fuse #12 (BTW it is fuse #12 that keeps blowing), I put the black on a ground and the red into the fuse prong. I got a beap when I did, from both holes.

I also tried it on fuse #13 but got nothing (I did not try to test it with the car in the start position though, but off got nothing).

I went back and checked all the wires in the radio area and cannot find any exposed wires, anything that looks to be pinched at all. At least not from my eyes. I may look at again.

Any other ideas or recommendations?
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:34 AM   #10
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Since the fuse is blowing only when you turn on the headlights (and probably as soon as you turn the knob to the first click for the parking lights), that means your illumination line is shorted to ground (or shorted to something else that draws a high current).

The short is most likely somewhere you were playing with wires. It might be something you pulled on while trying to connect to something else.

The illumination line does go many places -- every button and instrument that has a backlight.

Start by double checking you connected the correct wire on the AVIC's harness to the correct wire on your 14-pin radio install harness.
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Old 11-07-2011, 07:43 AM   #11
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SVXdc thanks for the PM and the link much appreciated will check it out.

You are correct, it is as soon as I turn the knob and first hits the parking lights it blows the fuse.

I do not think it is the Pioneer Avic wiring harness at all, and think it is the other reason people have mentioned with it being shorted someplace else. The reason I say that is because I have pulled the Pioneer radio completely out and stuck it in the back seat. So with nothing connected it still blows the fuse. I also put the stock radio back in and it blows the fuse as well. So that is why I assume it is not the radio harness at all, but some short someplace that I have no idea where to even look and begin. Would you agree?
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:31 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackops View Post
I do not think it is the Pioneer Avic wiring harness at all, and think it is the other reason people have mentioned with it being shorted someplace else. The reason I say that is because I have pulled the Pioneer radio completely out and stuck it in the back seat. So with nothing connected it still blows the fuse. I also put the stock radio back in and it blows the fuse as well. So that is why I assume it is not the radio harness at all, but some short someplace that I have no idea where to even look and begin. Would you agree?
Just because the HU is out of the dash and disconnected, doesn't mean something isn't screwed up with the wiring that YOU messed with...

That is what was being said... you either hooked the wrong wire to the wrong something, pulled a wire out of something, shorting to ground, chaffed the insulation off a wire by pulling it, or something has come undone and shorted...

All of these things are/where caused by you or someone else working on the car, it's now up to YOU to figure out which, with our help ofcourse...

Make no mistake though, these things usually DON'T happen to "untouched" systems..
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:46 AM   #13
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Aaron'z 2.5RS please do not misunderstand what I was trying to say. I figured it has something to do with something that I did during the install. I was not saying that "I" did not pull, yank, or move a wire that is causing the short or grounding problem. And I totally understand that the problem did not happen on its own and out of the blue.
I do appreciate all and everyone's help from the biggest automotive forum group of Subaru enthusiasts out there. Everyone's help definitely is very much appreciated.
I was merely stating an assumption based on process of elimination and diagnosing (on my thoughts and from feedback from NASIOC members) where I said I do not believe it is Avic wiring harness since when I had the radio removed (Pioneer) and the stock radio installed, the problem still existed.
Still stating the problem is still there with the radio removed (my assumption/theory was if the Pioneer radio is removed and it was the source of the problem with the Avic wiring harness, the fuse would not blow and the culprit would be the Avic. However since the fuse still blew and still showed the same symptoms with the Avic removed and also when the Stock was put back in, I assumed the Pioneer radio was not the problem and it lays elsewhere (either pinched, pulled, ground, etc wire that was disturbed by me during install).
That is what I am trying to do now with the help of the forum find out other ideas or areas and problems for me to locate the problem.
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:09 AM   #14
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Yes, since the illumination line is still being shorted even with no radio connected, the short is somewhere else.

So the next place to look is where you added the other wiring -- at the fuse panel, where you hard-wired the radar detector and CLA socket. Maybe something got bent or broken there.
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:26 AM   #15
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Actually I have eliminated those 2 areas as well by process of elimination.

Technically I did not hardwire in the Radar and Aux Cig Power, used one from AutoZone the Cooper Bussmann/ATM fuse tap converts one into two fusible circuits. I just wired the items up 1ea and put in a fuse and inserted it into the blank space in the fuse box that I removed the fuse from.

This is actually what I used to wiring in my Valentine 1 Radar detector and the Aux Cig Ports.
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...questid=629560


So all I did was pull the Bussmann/ATM fuse tap out and inserted the fuse back into the fuse box. I tried again when the Pioneer Radio was disconnected as well as both the other items (Valentine and Aux Cig), result was still a blown fuse #12.

Based on that I would assume that it is not the other extra wiring I did either. Would agree with my diagnosis and determination?
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:44 PM   #16
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I saw a post http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2130328

Someone mentions they may have damaged the illumination control module (which they said they think is under the dash around the radio) when they were doing whatever they were doing.

Would a bad illumination control module were bad would this the issue that seems like a short or something that would end up causing fuse #12 to blow all the time?

Thanks
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Old 11-10-2011, 12:19 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackops View Post
I saw a post http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2130328

Someone mentions they may have damaged the illumination control module (which they said they think is under the dash around the radio) when they were doing whatever they were doing.

Would a bad illumination control module were bad would this the issue that seems like a short or something that would end up causing fuse #12 to blow all the time?

Thanks

hmmm.. Thought I posted the pdf of the diagram, but I'm not seeing it, so here it is...

Linky

Your reference link is irrelevant because you have the 2.5L turbo, if you had the N/A motor, you would have that circuit. At least that's the difference I'm seeing in the 2 circuits.

My pdf reference's the Impreza WRX platform unless of course you have something closer? I have listings for Impreza WRX Limited, Impreza WRX STi (doubtful of that one), Impreza WRX TR, Impreza Outback Sport.

Also wondering where you grounded all these lovely items you added with your fuse tappers. Obviously the fuse box is where you got power, where did you hook your ground up?

One other thought before my awesome scatter post ends. Here comes the fun part, Fuse 12 distributes to these items: Headlight Leveler Switch, Clock, HID Relay (If equipped) Inter cooler water spray switch, Front Fog Light Switch Illumination Light, Body Integrated Module, Front Accessory Power Supply Socket (Cig Lighter), Glove Box Illumination Light, Auto A/C Control Module, Drivers Control Center Diff Auto/Manual Switch, Hazard Switch Illumination Light, Combination Meter, A/T Select Lever Illumination, Wiper Deicer Switch Illumination Light, and Radio Illumination Light.

You can redo your continuity test, probably got thrown off because one side of Fuse 12 goes to the parking switch on top of your steering column which could be giving a false reading for our testing purposes. Easier way looking at it now to test for a short would be to remove the radio. Put your black lead to ground, and the red lead to pin 1 Purple of your car side radio plug, that should be the illumination circuit for your radio and which will spider back into your other devices. If you get tone, (with your glove box shut) should be able to move stuff around till that tone stops, tone stops, you've found your pinched wire. Remember to do this test with the car off, and fuse 12 removed. Hopefully none of the other devices in the path give us a false reading during the continuity check.

My guess is going to be the most likely things, due to where you were working. Since you obviously worked on the radio, first couple apply, Hazards switch, HVAC lights, cig lights, radio lights, I'd start there.
Here is the power distribution diagram for all that jazz. Follow fuse 12 from the top right down, you'll see what I listed.
Diagram.

Last edited by CSVT_2004; 11-10-2011 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 11-10-2011, 08:04 AM   #18
blackops
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CSVT_2004 thanks for the information and ideas. Something I am going to try later on today when I get home from work.

I am actually going to go check all those other items to see if they are working at all you listed that fuse 12 distributes to. If they are working it should be fine.

The ground I am using for the items is the chasis under steering coloumn there is a screw to the left side of the fuse box I used. I do not think that would be the problem since cause when I tested stuff I had them completely removed from the car and not even wired in. I would assume that would be fine since the car was back to the configuration before I added them and still ended up with the same result.

For the continuity test, you are saying test pin #1 on the radio harness that plugs into the radio correct?

I think you are correct has to be something to where I was working at.

Thanks again
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:49 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackops View Post
CSVT_2004 thanks for the information and ideas. Something I am going to try later on today when I get home from work.

I am actually going to go check all those other items to see if they are working at all you listed that fuse 12 distributes to. If they are working it should be fine.

The ground I am using for the items is the chasis under steering coloumn there is a screw to the left side of the fuse box I used. I do not think that would be the problem since cause when I tested stuff I had them completely removed from the car and not even wired in. I would assume that would be fine since the car was back to the configuration before I added them and still ended up with the same result.

For the continuity test, you are saying test pin #1 on the radio harness that plugs into the radio correct?
Yes, it should be a purple wire in the first pin, most plugs will be labeled, or you could use your wiring harness from your pioneer to double check the pinning of the wire. .
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Old 11-13-2011, 10:50 PM   #20
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Default Problem Solved :-)

So I broke down after spending majority of the day looking for the problem again and pulling everything out and searching and diagnosing, and went to the local Subaru dealership (was expecting to get bent over).

Well 5.5 hours later at the Subaru dealer found the problem. Nice thing they only charged me for 2 hours of labor, which was great and totally unexpected.

I saw the 2 female connectors when I was looking at it and saw one end was connected to the stock radio wiring harness. I could not see where the other female connector was suppose to be connected to. But since it was in a hard to see place and I could not contort my body like a gymnast under the dash to look I did not see the 2 wires (black and yellow) coming out of it.





Which happens to be the illumination circuit and controls. The problem was the stock wiring illumination circuit came disconnected from the back of the dash gauge cluster. Some reason the yellow wire was no longer connected, and the black wire was stripped and shorting out to the chassis. It was run up and behind the dash gauge cluster so unless I pulled the dash cluster never would have seen the issue since it was tucked up there pretty good.

So after some time spent on Friday and out a couple hundred dollars I got the dash working and we have lights :-)
However now have to figure out what the rear cargo lamp and fog lights do not work at all.

Thanks and totally appreciate every ones help.
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Old 11-14-2011, 01:51 AM   #21
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I've never seen that particular harness before, but it looks like it was part of an accessory that needed illumination. The white 2-pin connectors were designed to be inserted between a factory harness and whatever that harness originally plugged into (or to leave you with another available socket for future use).

The factory radio harness has that same 2-pin connector taped to it. In older models, it provided illumination for the separate (optional) CD deck. Newer models still have that connector. I've only heard of it being used for an OEM accessory gauge kit (although at least one kit taps into the 14-pin radio harness, so it can grab +12V power in addition to illumination).

I suspect you accidentally pulled on that harness too much while you were working on the radio, yanking the yellow and black wires out of whatever they were wired to (likely a gauge, or possibly something that was added that has a switch with back-light illumination).

So look over your dash when you have your headlights on at night, and see what's no longer back-lit.
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Old 12-29-2014, 07:46 PM   #22
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needing to revive this thread. i have the same connector behind my radio but its only two wires that are purple and orange/white, but they don't plug into anything. would those be for a factory sub or something? im having the same illumination issue, but no radio has been replaced
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