Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday July 28, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
New England Subaru Impreza Club
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Chapters > New England Impreza Club Forum -- NESIC

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-26-2006, 11:11 AM   #1
lotusTT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 23359
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle:
2002 BMW M Coupe
Steel Gray

Default Question on not having front license plate in MA

I have seen numerous posts here saying a ticket for not having a front plate is NOT a surchargable insurance offense in Mass.

I am transferring my Ohio license to MA and they are trying to surcharge me for a ticket in Ohio for no front plate, saying in Mass this equipment violation is actually a moving violation.

Can anyone provide any insight I can use to dispute this? Even just the section of law listed on an MA ticket for no front plate would help.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
lotusTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 11:35 AM   #2
wit2003
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 104395
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: New Ipswich, NH
Vehicle:
2007 Element/99 GMC
1500/87MC-SS/00 Mirage

Default

http://www.mass.gov/rmv/

check there....you may find what you are looking for. I dont have a straight answer for you though.....although i dont remember the last time i had a front plate on my car.
wit2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 11:50 AM   #3
lotusTT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 23359
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle:
2002 BMW M Coupe
Steel Gray

Default

I found the list of all surchargable incidents in MA, and don't see any license plate violations on the list. (http://www.mass.gov/doi/Legal_Hearings/211_134.PDF)

But to make sure, I need to find the section of law that you get a ticket for when you don't have a front plate.
lotusTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 12:46 PM   #4
04RCSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 65694
Join Date: Jul 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Miami
Vehicle:
MDC Forever
Black '06 STI

Default

Ive been driving in MA without front plate for 2 years now and havent gotten pulled over forit..
04RCSTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 12:53 PM   #5
Samurai Jack
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 04RCSTI
Ive been driving in MA without front plate for 2 years now and havent gotten pulled over forit..
MA. reg is now (and has been for a while) 2 plates, 1 front & 1 rear, unless you have an older plate from a time when only 1 plate was required, which was a while ago.

Maybe they just didn't bother to stop you, yet.
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 12:55 PM   #6
WagonMonster
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 3781
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Napa Valley
Vehicle:
2002 Legacy GT Wagon
2009 Forester X Limited

Default

What's the big deal about running a front plate?

It seems like a minor inconvenience for not making yourself a target for the cops.
WagonMonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 01:12 PM   #7
KC
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 442
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: SE Mass/RI
Vehicle:
2013 Crosstrek XV
00 Honda S2000

Default

It's a fine, it's not surchargable on your insurance.

--kC
(Doesn't have front plate on RX8)
KC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 01:26 PM   #8
infamousone
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 59625
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Lowell
Vehicle:
01 Integra Type R
#01-0362

Default

my friend got fined for not having a front plant on this GS-t. i think it was only only $40. front plates are soo ugly.
infamousone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 01:47 PM   #9
lotusTT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 23359
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle:
2002 BMW M Coupe
Steel Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC
It's a fine, it's not surchargable on your insurance.

--kC
(Doesn't have front plate on RX8)

Tell my insurance company that, they say otherwise. Or tell me how I can prove that to them.

I'm not interested in hearing that people have/have not been stopped for this, that's irrelavant at this point.
lotusTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 01:58 PM   #10
KC
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 442
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: SE Mass/RI
Vehicle:
2013 Crosstrek XV
00 Honda S2000

Default

I would approach it like this...

1) That PDF listed above does not list not having a plate as a surchargable incident in Appendix A. That is the bible of surchargable incidents in MA. Have them prove to you that it's in there.

2) http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/90-6.htm
The above is the law requiring a numberplate. However, there is no fine listed for not having one, which I find very odd as they usually do list something like "A fine not more than $XX.xx" within the text.

But then again, speeding doesn't have one.

It's my understanding that Ins cannot nail (surcharge) you for lack of inspection ticket, or whatnot because they are not something that tells you if you're a reckless driver. Any 'ticket/penalty' dealing with registration or inspection should NOT (and are not IIRC) included as a minor traffic violations.

You can always call the Atty General office and enquire from them citing the above two references to get it clear.

--kC
KC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 02:07 PM   #11
lotusTT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 23359
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle:
2002 BMW M Coupe
Steel Gray

Default

Awesome, thanks KC!

There is definitely no mention of Chapter 90, Section 6 in Appendix A, and that's what I needed to know.

I thought they might have tried to lump it in with "Inadequate equipment (brakes, directional signals,
lights or safety devices)" by claiming the license plate is a saftey device, but since there is a seperate section for plates and that is clearly not listed they shouldn't be able to make that claim.
lotusTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 02:14 PM   #12
KC
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 442
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: SE Mass/RI
Vehicle:
2013 Crosstrek XV
00 Honda S2000

Default

Yep, that's how I would go about it too. Since 90-6 of the MGL is not listed in Appendix A, they need to provide proof.

On top of that, I would bring it to the Atty generals attention for the sole reason, if it turns out they shouldn't be surchraging for the missing plate ticket, how many others are also being incorrectly surcharged for it and are owed a refund for their lost SDIP?

All it takes is one phone call.
KC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 02:43 PM   #13
lotusTT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 23359
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle:
2002 BMW M Coupe
Steel Gray

Default

Wow. So after a 20 minute phone call, Amica is willing to do absolutely nothing to help me. They say its on my record and they can't change that (the Mass DMV told me they were the ones who could change it.)

They said to get the Ohio DMV to change it. Ohio DMV only keeps 3 years of records, not 6. So I can't get Ohio to change something that's not even on my Ohio record anymore. Amica claims its on their internal 6 year records and they can't change it unless Ohio does, even though Ohio doesn't have a record of it anymore.

Bless this great Commonwealth.
lotusTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 02:50 PM   #14
KC
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 442
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: SE Mass/RI
Vehicle:
2013 Crosstrek XV
00 Honda S2000

Default

So wait a dang minute here...

You had a car reged in Ohio and got the ticket in Ohio for missing front plate?

You kind of left that part out and it plays a very important part and totally changes all the above what I have said.

It's called an out of state ticket. In OH, it very well could be surchargable in OH. When it transfers to MA, it's just put down as an "Out Of State" violation and yeah, that's points.
KC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 02:58 PM   #15
KC
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 442
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: SE Mass/RI
Vehicle:
2013 Crosstrek XV
00 Honda S2000

Default

Adding onto the above...

What does the OH report have it as in the MA system? It's got to be coded as something. What does Amica call it? Here's why I ask, all the way at the bottom of 211 CMR 134 is this little guy:

Quote:
All Out-of-state Minor Traffic Violations which can be classified in any one of the above categories shall be counted as Minor Traffic Violations for the purposes of 211 CMR 134.00.
It comes down to what it's coded as at Amica.

When did you get your MA license?
KC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 02:59 PM   #16
lotusTT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 23359
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle:
2002 BMW M Coupe
Steel Gray

Default

The car was registered and ticketed in Ohio (as an equip violation, not moving. No surcharge in Ohio).

When they translate your record they look up each incident on your record and convert it to a Mass incident. Then see if its surchargable. (The last line of Appendix A: "All Out-of-state Minor Traffic Violations which can be classified in any one of the above categories shall be counted as Minor Traffic Violations for the purposes of 211 CMR 134.00."

They (Amica) translated it incorrectly (as a "Operating expired reg", claiming that was the equivalent of the violation on my Ohio record.) It is no longer on my Ohio DMV record (I got a copy of my record directly from the Ohio DMV), so I am stuck with the task of finding some proof that they are wrong.

I was also told that, even if I get a letter from Ohio saying they only have 3 years of history, Amica will not correct/remove any violations from beyond that period.
lotusTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 03:01 PM   #17
KC
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 442
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: SE Mass/RI
Vehicle:
2013 Crosstrek XV
00 Honda S2000

Default

From: http://www.mass.gov/doi/Consumer/WaysToSave_SDIP.html

Quote:
If an MVR is not electronically available, the driver can obtain an official driving record or a record from a previous insurer and submit it to the current insurer.
Can you get your record from your old Ins. co to show MA that you were clean?

I'm getting the jist of what you're saying. The Merit Rating Board (not Ins. Co) is the one that coded it wrong.

--kC
KC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 03:02 PM   #18
lotusTT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 23359
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle:
2002 BMW M Coupe
Steel Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC

It comes down to what it's coded as at Amica.

When did you get your MA license?
Exactly. That's my problem. According to them, whatever they say apparently goes, without any way of contesting it, unless its in the past 3 years.

I still have an Ohio license, but an MA insurance policy (started last month).
lotusTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 03:04 PM   #19
lotusTT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 23359
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle:
2002 BMW M Coupe
Steel Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC
From: http://www.mass.gov/doi/Consumer/WaysToSave_SDIP.html



Can you get your record from your old Ins. co?
Haha if only it was that easy. Amica is my old insurance company.

The fact that they didn't charge me for this in Ohio does not sway them at all from charging me now.
lotusTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 03:05 PM   #20
KC
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 442
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: SE Mass/RI
Vehicle:
2013 Crosstrek XV
00 Honda S2000

Default

Here's what I mean about getting it from your old ins company.

If it truly was an 'Operating Expired Reg', your old Ins company would have surcharged you ALSO. Getting a copy from your previous insurer may help to clear it out, because if it wasn't there, then it wasn't a surchargable offense.

On the phone, are you dealing with an agent, or underwriting?

If it was same company, then they did, indeed, screw up. Wow. I dunno what to say other than to try and keep escalating it.

--kC
KC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 03:08 PM   #21
lotusTT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 23359
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle:
2002 BMW M Coupe
Steel Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC
Here's what I mean about getting it from your old ins company.

If it truly was an 'Operating Expired Reg', your old Ins company would have surcharged you ALSO. Getting a copy from your previous insurer may help to clear it out, because if it wasn't there, then it wasn't a surchargable offense.

On the phone, are you dealing with an agent, or underwriting?

If it was same company, then they did, indeed, screw up. Wow. I dunno what to say other than to try and keep escalating it.

--kC
That would make logical sense, but when I said they didn't charge me for it in Ohio, I was told the states have different laws and they only know MA's.

I'm just talking to an agent, who then talks to the underwriter. I'm going to try calling the Ohio office to see if they can talk to the MA office and set them straight.
lotusTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 03:27 PM   #22
KC
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 442
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: SE Mass/RI
Vehicle:
2013 Crosstrek XV
00 Honda S2000

Default

So the OH office is cool with it and knows what's going on? (Because they have your record?)

Sounds like a good shot. Expecially since you have been in OH longer than MA and the MA branch is being a PITA.

--kC
KC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 05:54 PM   #23
Bump t.t.t.
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 115680
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Andover Ma
Vehicle:
2004 STI
PSM

Default

Problem is if you have a beer or 2, swerve, speed, no directional etc. or whatever. It's an easy, obvious, justifiable stop and an avenue for the cop to stick his nose in your car. If you have a reason for him not to be in there then screw it on and be done with it. Although if a cop wants in your car there are a ton of ways to get in.

Put it on.
Bump t.t.t. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 06:48 PM   #24
lotusTT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 23359
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle:
2002 BMW M Coupe
Steel Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bump t.t.t.
Problem is if you have a beer or 2, swerve, speed, no directional etc. or whatever. It's an easy, obvious, justifiable stop and an avenue for the cop to stick his nose in your car. If you have a reason for him not to be in there then screw it on and be done with it. Although if a cop wants in your car there are a ton of ways to get in.

Put it on.
Congratulations! You are the 4th person to post in this thread with absolutely no idea what you are posting about! Thumbs up for no reading comprehension!
lotusTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2006, 08:54 PM   #25
eastcoastbumps
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 29201
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Shrewsbury, MA
Vehicle:
BMW M3
Honda S2000x2

Default

Tell them you're going to change companys. Then they'll do just about anything for you.
eastcoastbumps is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Remove front license plate in BC - fine amount? rexilla Vancouver Impreza Club Forum -- VIC 19 04-17-2007 07:41 PM
front license plate in WI bthomas Mid West Subaru Owners Club Forum -- MWSOC 18 12-21-2006 09:17 PM
Is It Illegal To Not Have Your Front License Plate On? Tek Southern California Impreza Club Forum -- SCIC 76 03-29-2005 01:46 PM
Front License plate in TX PhantomOG Texas Impreza Club Forum -- TXIC 36 08-31-2001 05:47 PM
Legality of not having a front license plate in NY fellfrosch7 Tri-State Area Forum 9 02-14-2001 04:35 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.