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Old 05-30-2006, 01:46 PM   #1
Wrinkleboi
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Question How to make DCCD work on a 6MT swap into a WRX (or other non-STi)

I did some searching around and it looks like there once was a DCCD FAQ but the page no longer exists.
I'm trying to find out what is involved in taking a WRX and taking a STi 6MT and making the DCCD work with it. What is possible and how much will it cost?
It seems that part of the information the Auto DCCD needs is integrated into the STi's factory ECU, so is only Manual DCCD operation possible on a WRX?
A list of parts required would be great as well... are we just talking about adding the DCCD Module and the DCCD Switch, or are there other things needed as well? Is a wiring harness necessary or is making the harness doable? If anyone has a complete list I'd appreciate it.
Is the STi DCCD Module all that is required, and does it matter what model it is from? What about sensors or switches?
Also, how about the homemade DCCD control units discussed here on the forum and on ebay?
Thanks in advance...
Bryan
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Last edited by Wrinkleboi; 05-30-2006 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 05-30-2006, 02:19 PM   #2
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i think xplane (fellow member here) is working on something to make full auto on 6spd swapped wrx...
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Old 05-30-2006, 02:44 PM   #3
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pdxtuning knows of an aftermarket dccd controller. Shoot them an e-mail.
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Old 05-30-2006, 02:47 PM   #4
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so far it seems like the sti dccd unit is not plug and play for an sti tranny in a wrx? thats a shame... i am interested to see what xplane develops or what the other options are out there...
lets please keep the flow of info going here...
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Old 05-30-2006, 06:42 PM   #5
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This guy is the best for both manual or specific maped dccd!
www.rocketrally.com
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Old 05-30-2006, 06:47 PM   #6
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hooooly crap. i'm sure those rock my socks, but i think i'm looking for a more affordable solutuion.
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Old 05-30-2006, 06:51 PM   #7
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Bryan is this thread for me?
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Old 05-30-2006, 06:56 PM   #8
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canadian dollars would have been abetter deal 1 year ago!
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Old 05-30-2006, 06:59 PM   #9
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you know me d, just doing my homework... its for you, and its for huff, and its for me... dont think huff or i are planning on any immediate purchases but i like to over-research my mods ahead of time and since you're in a bind might as well get it all figured out now.
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Old 05-30-2006, 06:59 PM   #10
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Options as I see them:

<----no expert, but thought about it.

1) integrate the OEM STI parts necessary which includes the wheel speed sensors, steering pos sensor, g sensor, abs, rear diff, tps, and more I am sure. Lots of dollars according to those that have done it, but if you are really serious talk to tom of kartboy, I thought he had it done in a Forrester. I could be wrong though

2)Neetronics controller. That's the one from Rallispec I believe, its $$ and more than you want, but it sounds like it's pretty close to plug and play once they setup a map for you.

3)custom one built by enthusiast. their are a couple on Ebay occasionally, and one or two people on here that make them. Can be really cheap, and can have inputs like tps and vehicle speed, even lateral acceleration if you wanted I suppose.


Reading assignment:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=872902
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=927837
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=951167
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=847303
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Old 05-30-2006, 07:05 PM   #11
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I am waiting for my Neetronics DCCD controller to show up.

See here
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Old 05-30-2006, 07:10 PM   #12
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hmmm $399 and it replaces the OEM Module completely? so you install it onto a bare 6 speed and it includes the sensors and the brain to do all that... interesting. i'll do some more homework on it now.
how do the homebrew controllers compare? it seemed like one or two of them were quite nice although not readily available and i didnt get any exact pricing.
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Old 05-30-2006, 07:18 PM   #13
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IMO the neetronics is prob the best solution for saving headaches and good operation, I will be running it on my six speed. With all the work and parts involved to get the auto mode to work like OEM you will need a full STi to get all the little parts.

something to think about.

the stock dccd controller can be used in manual mode fairly easy but that's no fun

Ben
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Old 05-31-2006, 01:21 AM   #14
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neetronics looks like a great unit...

what about the member here who has the current manual setup working and he said he's developing a more automated setup currently? sounds like it will be a lot cheaper than the neetronics and that it will be pretty impressive...
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Old 05-31-2006, 09:25 AM   #15
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I made my own. Gotta love having a bunch of electrical parts kicking around the lab

It actually worked quite well... until the wires on the DCCD solenoid came loose. My trans came out of a burned car, so I had maybe an inch of wire on the DCCD connection to splice into. I did a real half/assed job splicing the wires together because I didn't feel like dropping the back half of the trans just to get wires in place. When I get more motivated, I'll reconnect it as it worked very well.

Here's excerpts from my original post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayley
DCCD Controller Update

I finally got around to hooking up my “home made” DCCD controller last night. I’ll hopefully be able to grab some pictures later tonight and post them up tomorrow, but I figured I would at least give an update on the overall status.

…and the damn thing works. Quite well actually!

For the user interface, I “borrowed” a knob off a climate control unit for a full sized Dodge Ram truck. The knob itself compliments the interior rather nicely I might add. The knob was slid onto a potentiometer that was vertically mounted in the same location the STi DCCD thumbwheel is located. Next to the knob and potentiometer, I mounted a blue LED.

Using an NEC 8 bit microprocessor, I read in a 0V to 5V signal from the potentiometer (with the big Dodge Ram Knob attached ). The percentage of this voltage (compared to 5V) is directly transferred to the output compare register which in turn operates the PWM 12 volt output (pulse width modulated). At zero volts input signal, the output has a duty cycle of 0%. At five volts input signal, the output has a duty cycle of 100%. The module is infinitely adjustable for all ranges in between. The frequency of this wave started off at 100Hz, but noise was pretty bad and was finding its way back into the chassis. I upped the frequency to 150Hz and all seems to be better.

The LED is used to display the intensity of the lockup amount. At 0%, the LED is almost off. To be fair, I have to keep the PWM register at least at 1% otherwise the output port starts oscillating at 50% duty. At 100%, the LED is at maximum brightness. To the naked eye, the LED looks to be saturated fairly early (by 50%) I suppose I could have changed this by using a bigger resistor, but the functionality at the solenoid (which is what really matters) still works the same.

Since I had seven unused analog inputs, I decided to tie in the throttle position to add a “semi-automatic” feature. I read in the throttle position and determine if the position is above a set threshold amount. For the current revision, I chose 35% Whenever the throttle is increased over 35%, duty will be added to whatever signal is already being sent. At 5V a maximum of 33% duty will be added to the signal. However, the throttle position sensor only puts out about 4.5V maximum leaving me with a maximum of 26% additional duty… which is what I was aiming for.

Here is a spreadsheet that better explains how this works:


I took the car out for a quick test drive last night on a very wet parking lot. There is definitely a noticeable difference between full off and full on (using the “Ram Knob”) Granted, the only way to tell this was by making sharp turns since traction was still relatively good, but the difference was still noticeable. With a forecast of snow for the next few days, hopefully I’ll have a better comprehension on just how well this works.

The plan right now is to make a couple more of these units and see what other WRX owners think of them. I have no idea when I’ll get around to it though. I’ll post a message when I do. Realistically not until early January..

Here is a picture of my home made DCCD controller:




Last edited by Bayley; 05-31-2006 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 05-31-2006, 10:47 AM   #16
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Bayley, thanks for posting that up, you were one I was thinking about when I said custom but I couldn't seem to find it in my time searching.
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Old 06-01-2006, 05:26 PM   #17
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I make and sell the homemade DCCD controllers as well if anyone is still interested. I'm the one who sells them on Ebay for $150.

If you have any questions, feel free to pm me.
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Old 06-01-2006, 06:31 PM   #18
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wow great thread bryan. Since we are on topic of 6MT's, how do you put one in a wrx without changing to the R180 and brake assembly.
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Old 06-01-2006, 08:37 PM   #19
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So far the way I understand it.

Spiider's controller - Completely manual. No logic based control over the center diff lockup. You set the lockup rate and the rate will remain constant until you change the setting. Set the knob to 0 and the center diff will be open. Set to 100, diff will be locked. Simple to adjust.

Bayley's controller - Very similiar to Spiider's with one small addition. The TPS sensor is referenced, and center diff lockup rate can be affected depending on throttle position. So at lower throttles, the diff will be more open relative to at high throttle for a given setting of the controller. Effectively, this controller has 20 settings from 0 to 100 in 5 step increments which has different curves for how the center diff is locked or unlocked based on throttle position. For example at the lowest setting, the center diff will be 0% locked at 0% throttle, but 33% locked at 100% throttle. Not user programmable. Simple to adjust.

Neetronics controller - References TPS, speed, brake, and handbrake. Basically you are able to change the attitude of the center diff to suit your driving needs. This is however overkill for 90% of the drivers. The OEM DCCD controller has the logic to analyze these references and has an internal 'map' which compares these values to each other to achieve a final lockup rate for the center diff. This 'map', so to speak, is programmed. The Neetronics controller has the the abilities of the OEM DCCD with the addition of the ablity to change these values. User programmable.

Basically, all three give varying degrees of tunability of the center diff to suit your handling balance needs. Looser through the corners or tighter. Neither of them give you direct control of how much power is transferred in terms of "0% vs 100% rear". They basically give you a way of adjusting how easy it is to transfer power through the center diff. The easier it is for the center diff (open) the easier the car will turn which generally means more oversteer

Spiider's - Center diff lockup rate is not affected by accel, decel, speed.
Bayley's - Center diff lockup rate is marginally affected by accel.
Neetronics - Center diff lockup rate can be programmed to be affected by accel, decel, speed, and/or handbrake application.
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Old 06-01-2006, 08:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Money
wow great thread bryan. Since we are on topic of 6MT's, how do you put one in a wrx without changing to the R180 and brake assembly.
you do a search because that is a whole different topic

no really, i'm serious. but since i've been doing my homework on it i can explain it to you D... its pretty simple actually.
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Old 06-02-2006, 12:51 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrinkleboi
you do a search because that is a whole different topic

no really, i'm serious. but since i've been doing my homework on it i can explain it to you D... its pretty simple actually.
Ok, sorry.

But listen, you gotta explain it to me before I make the wrong choice. I will call you tomorrow so you can help me choose something.
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Old 06-02-2006, 09:05 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Money
wow great thread bryan. Since we are on topic of 6MT's, how do you put one in a wrx without changing to the R180 and brake assembly.
D Money, Read This Thread. Should explain just about everything involved in a 6MT swap without using an R180.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF582
Bayley's controller - Very similiar to Spiider's with one small addition. The TPS sensor is referenced, and center diff lockup rate can be affected depending on throttle position. So at lower throttles, the diff will be more open relative to at high throttle for a given setting of the controller. Effectively, this controller has 20 settings from 0 to 100 in 5 step increments which has different curves for how the center diff is locked or unlocked based on throttle position. For example at the lowest setting, the center diff will be 0% locked at 0% throttle, but 33% locked at 100% throttle. Not user programmable. Simple to adjust.
Very good summary, couldn't have said it better myself.

I would like to add that I DO have the ability to add features into my controller such as; MAP sensor, Vehicle Speed, Brake Pedal, Hand Brake, etc… The controller I’m using has 7 analog inputs, of which, I’m currently only using one. I also have an “input capture” line that can be used to determine either vehicle speed or engine speed. Too bad the WRX doesn’t talk on a CAN bus, I’ve got one of those free as well.

I played around a little with the MAP and sensor settings, but found that using “just” the throttle position works just as well. Never hooked up the input capture to the vehicle speed, although I’m sure I could have added something that lowers the duty cycle as speeds increase. Basically, it came down to the fact that using only the TPS sensor gave me all the performance results I could ask for. The DCCD in actuality is a pretty simple device. Most of the guys I know simply run a toggle switch that sends a constant 12V signal to the DCCD solenoid (locks in the ratio at 50/50).

Also, my setup CAN be recalibrated / reconfigured… you just need to have the source code, C compiler for an NEC FC1+ micro, and NEC flash tool sitting in front of you! So yeah, I guess it’s not re-configurable.

Bryan,
I haven’t forgotten about ya, trying to put together another controller for you to try out. Finding all the parts to make the wiring harness has proven to be quite the challenge this week.
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Old 04-27-2007, 01:36 PM   #23
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Old 09-26-2007, 11:38 PM   #24
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Disregard...
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Old 09-26-2007, 11:40 PM   #25
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Quick question:
I have the stock DCCD control brain, thumb wheel and manual switch. All i need is the harness to and from each of these. Is it possible to make one? Buy one? or is it a complete waste of time and just buy something premade?
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