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Old 05-30-2006, 03:08 PM   #1
Okeyd57
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Default Can a dealer tell ?

If a person used a Cobb Accessport on an 06 STi and then set everything back stock to go to the dealer, would he be able to tell ? I haven't bought one yet, mainly because of questions I have like this ! I'm sure someone here can fill me in. Thanks, Okey
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Old 05-30-2006, 04:02 PM   #2
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One you un-marry the AccessPort from your ECU a dealer should not be able to tell that you had it installed. I am sure that there are some exceptions to this but in a general sense it should not be detected.

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Old 06-01-2006, 07:23 PM   #3
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I can tell with a $80 cable. So I am sure some dealers can. If you want to be sure, get the Tactrix cable, and back up your ECU first. That way you can go back to your actual ECU, not the COBB generic ECU they use.
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Old 06-01-2006, 08:02 PM   #4
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Un-married or not, the new Subaru Select Monitor 3 will immeadiately recognize if an ECU has been reflashed. The previous versions of the Select Monitor will not. It does this by comparing the ECU programs checksum values and comparing them with the ECU's calibration ID. Once an ECU is flashed, these do not "match" any longer.
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Old 06-01-2006, 08:09 PM   #5
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does this happen if you use utec too.
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Old 06-01-2006, 08:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pornstar1969
does this happen if you use utec too.
Utec (from what I understand) is a piggyback to the ECU and does not actually change the programming in the ECU. So as long as the UTEC is not present when they check the car, it is doubtful it would be detected.
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Old 06-01-2006, 08:26 PM   #7
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I have it, that is what i though would happen but wasn't sure how it and the computer communicated. If the comp. stored any info.
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Old 06-01-2006, 08:27 PM   #8
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I believe that dealer can detect any ECU reflash starting with the 05 and later models.
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Old 06-02-2006, 11:30 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoobyNubieToo!
I believe that dealer can detect any ECU reflash starting with the 05 and later models.

Does that make the 04's more valuable?
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Old 06-02-2006, 11:52 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie
Un-married or not, the new Subaru Select Monitor 3 will immeadiately recognize if an ECU has been reflashed. The previous versions of the Select Monitor will not. It does this by comparing the ECU programs checksum values and comparing them with the ECU's calibration ID. Once an ECU is flashed, these do not "match" any longer.
Bingo!!

I have been saying that same thing for well over a year now (we were the pilot dealer for the SSM3)
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Old 06-02-2006, 12:41 PM   #11
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Ok, this begs the question.. What happens if the dealer flashes for a TSB? Does it fix the calibration ID to match the new checksum value? Is there byte in the ROM that has to be modified to make the resultant checksum match the calibration ID?

If so, I wonder what it takes to fix the calibration ID. If the dealer can do it, an individual could with the write tools. We already had to defeat one checksum routine on Openecu.org for the DBW Subarus.

FWIW, you can always flash back a TRULY stock image if you pull your original ECU image out with Ecuflash (openecu flash). You get a bit for bit backup and the checksum won't change if you flash back using that image. I understand the AP does not actually backup your ECU during a marry, it only flashes back a genericised image that is made for your ECU when you unmarry.

There is a built-in checksum on DBW Subarus that has already been defeated anyway. I don't think this should be a particular challenge for anyone that concerned about it.
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Old 06-02-2006, 01:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freon
Ok, this begs the question.. What happens if the dealer flashes for a TSB? Does it fix the calibration ID to match the new checksum value? Is there byte in the ROM that has to be modified to make the resultant checksum match the calibration ID?
If a SOA reflash is performed the ECU will have a new checksum and Calibration ID, that combination is a known value that the SSM3 recognizes as a valid combination.

Once the ECU is reflashed it cannot be flashed back to a stock map on be "OK" as the stock/original calibration ID will not match the checksum as the checksum changes its value each and every time a flash is performed and can not be manipulated to be a certain checksum.

For example, say you are running a stock flash with calibration ID: "A" and checksum of "1" and you reflash and the new calibration ID is "X" and the checksum is then "2". You decide to reflash back to stock and now the calibration ID is "A" again but the checksum is "3"....not a valid combo.
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Old 06-02-2006, 01:36 PM   #13
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For getting warranty work done there are two methods that work. 1) Don't mod it 2) be honest from the get go. History on the boards has shown that people that were up front about what they did to/with the car, and were cool about it when presenting problems to dealers, still got there warranty work done. Caveat to #2...don't beat the car to the ground (i.e. drop the clutch, not to regularly scheduled maintenance) and expect it to be covered.

These cars are built well and Subaru knows that.
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Old 06-02-2006, 01:39 PM   #14
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Thanks for the clarification Opie.

However, I'm sure there's a way around it... It's very possible that even Subaru won't know how to do it. But the actual people/company who make the chip do.

It's a matter of how dedicated these "hackers" are. Anyone know who makes the Subaru ECU memory?
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Old 06-02-2006, 02:16 PM   #15
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I thought there was a hard limit to the number of reflashes. If that's true, there must be a counter somewhere too.
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Old 06-02-2006, 02:38 PM   #16
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I knew this was going to be a good question !
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Old 06-03-2006, 12:00 PM   #17
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yes with our new subaru laptops at work. as soon as we plug in we can tell anything that has been moded electronicaly and it automatticaly will send to SOA and kill your warrenty. Be carful if your worried about a warrenty.
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Old 06-03-2006, 12:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badtaste
yes with our new subaru laptops at work. as soon as we plug in we can tell anything that has been moded electronicaly and it automatticaly will send to SOA and kill your warrenty. Be carful if your worried about a warrenty.


Don't spread misinformation.
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Old 06-03-2006, 01:20 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leecea
I thought there was a hard limit to the number of reflashes. If that's true, there must be a counter somewhere too.
The limit is due to the ECU not being able to tolerate being changed anymore. The memory wasnt designed to be flashed hundreds of times.

I thought the number was 500-600 flashes before its burned out. If thats true then no one really has to worry about it.

.....

OP: With what Opie says the dealer will be able to know. But if all you have done is a reflashed ECU I doubt they will bother. Now if you have exhaust and turbo and try to convert back to stock to get warranty work done then they can easily tell just by looking at the work. They will also probably not provide you with warranty service in that situation.

Be honest too. Warranty work doesnt pay as much as regular work. The tech dont get the same about of time. Example : Replacing a strut may pay the tech 3 hours of time (guessing) warranty strut replacment will pay 1.5 hours. This is why they dont like warranty work. It helps Subaru because the dealers and tech dont want too if they can help it but it hurts the techs if they have to do it.
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Old 06-17-2006, 10:39 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badtaste
yes with our new subaru laptops at work. as soon as we plug in we can tell anything that has been moded electronicaly and it automatticaly will send to SOA and kill your warrenty. Be carful if your worried about a warrenty.
Thats a good one, So if I mod my computer and bring it to you, you will void my warrenty? Riiiiight, thats not the way the system works. If you work at subaru than you should know this. One example of this is when I first had a transmission problem. I called subaru and asked them if the dealer can deny warrenty work if I have a TBE. They said in no way can they say that the exhaust caused the problem with the transmission untill they personally take the car apart. She then said.."you could put an entirely different engine in the car and it will not void your warrenty, If you had transmission problems even with the different engine they would still have to prove that the engine cause the transmission problem."
Another example - Mod ecu, injector goes bad. I'm guessing the only possible way that the injector could have gone bad is from the modded ecu right? I'm not sure where you work but if you don't mind could you tell us?

Quote:
Now if you have exhaust and turbo and try to convert back to stock to get warranty work done then they can easily tell just by looking at the work. They will also probably not provide you with warranty service in that situation.
Riiight, Like I said above strait from the horses mouth..."they have to prove that the mods caused the problem otherwise it's still under warrenty" If the dealer sees mods and says they won't cover problems report them to subaru and they will be looked into. If they claim that the mods cause the problem ask them for a write up on how they confirmed that the mods caused the problem.

If you modify and/or abuse your car, that is not reason for your warranty to be voided. IT HAS TO BE PROVEN that the modification and/or abuse caused the defect. And even then your warranty is not voided, the warranty claim was just denied. Other things on your vehicle not affected by the modification and/or abuse are still covered.
If you are ever told that your warranty is "voided", make sure they are saying the ENTIRE warranty is voided, and not that the warranty claim was denied. If they say that the warranty is voided, get it in writing and call SOA. Most likely it is just the claim that was denied.

Either way, if you mod something say exhaust and ecu and your turbo starts to have problems. You messed it up, don't try to get it covered under warrenty. I guess you could tho cuz some dealers don't care about mods and you would get a new turbo anyway. While some dealers look for mods to get an easy way out of fixing the car for less money than charging the regular non warrenty rate. I belive 75% of the warrenty problems are with the dealer, not subaru.

hondaslayer is right when he said
Quote:
Don't spread misinformation.
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Old 06-17-2006, 10:54 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicX
The limit is due to the ECU not being able to tolerate being changed anymore. The memory wasnt designed to be flashed hundreds of times.

I thought the number was 500-600 flashes before its burned out. If thats true then no one really has to worry about it.

.....

OP: With what Opie says the dealer will be able to know. But if all you have done is a reflashed ECU I doubt they will bother. Now if you have exhaust and turbo and try to convert back to stock to get warranty work done then they can easily tell just by looking at the work. They will also probably not provide you with warranty service in that situation.

Be honest too. Warranty work doesnt pay as much as regular work. The tech dont get the same about of time. Example : Replacing a strut may pay the tech 3 hours of time (guessing) warranty strut replacment will pay 1.5 hours. This is why they dont like warranty work. It helps Subaru because the dealers and tech dont want too if they can help it but it hurts the techs if they have to do it.
Actually for customer pay we charge 1hr per strut, warranty pays 1.2 hrs
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Old 06-18-2006, 12:15 AM   #22
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Quote:
If you modify and/or abuse your car, that is not reason for your warranty to be voided. IT HAS TO BE PROVEN that the modification and/or abuse caused the defect. And even then your warranty is not voided, the warranty claim was just denied. Other things on your vehicle not affected by the modification and/or abuse are still covered.

If you are ever told that your warranty is "voided", make sure they are saying the ENTIRE warranty is voided, and not that the warranty claim was denied. If they say that the warranty is voided, get it in writing and call SOA. Most likely it is just the claim that was denied.
If you worry about what you are going to do with your car in order to keep the warranty in tact, then don't do it.
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Old 06-18-2006, 08:47 AM   #23
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ECU's are not that expensive on the used market.
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Old 06-18-2006, 10:37 AM   #24
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The OP has an 06 STI.

If he buys a used ECM he is going to have to take it into the dealer to have it programmed into his BIU. That might raise a red flag or 15........
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Old 06-18-2006, 10:54 AM   #25
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Is this somewhat symilar to what VW does when you "commision" a module? You install it, connect to the port and select the options of the car, in order to have the unit working?
If so, I understand, untill the commisioning software becomes more or less available, it's a problem. The WAG (VW) software ended up becoming available , in time.
A friend had to replace the ABS module, so had to hook up the Lap-top containing the software and complete the installation procedure. My understanding is that this allows the factory to save money by installing "universal" control units, which are then programmed specifically for the car.
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