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Old 06-01-2006, 12:40 AM   #1
tracks
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Default Stock STI brake pads... how much thickness for a track day?

hi,

Just measured my stock STI brake pads on the front driver tire: 4mm outside, 1.9mm inside.

I plan to run two days CCW at buttonwillow; approximately 160min of HPDE track time. They currently have 6 HPDE track days under them, and 13K total driving miles on road and the 6 days. Car is an '05 STI and totally and completely stock.

Should I replace or do I have enough of a comfortable margin to get through one more weekend?


The rotors should be in great shape so I prefer not to risk them. Dealer claims the 36K mile warranty on pads only applies at 1mm, so I'll need to fight them on it to replace "early". And yes, I am happy with the stock pads as long as my 36K warranty is in effect. And yes, if i were smarter I would have measured the wear after each weekend, doh!

many thanks and best
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Old 06-01-2006, 03:41 AM   #2
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i have never tracked my 04 STi, but i have to say, 1.9mm is extremely small under any circumstances (at least to me) and especially for the high speed braking that you will most likely be doing during those two days, i personally wouldn't feel safe on pads that thin.

sidenote - i recently replaced my pads, and noticed that the inside pads were also worn down a lot more for me as well. is this something that 'just is' with our cars?
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Old 06-01-2006, 06:50 AM   #3
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Replace them. I wouldn't want to use the stock pads at the track anyway.
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Old 06-01-2006, 12:28 PM   #4
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2 mm?? - not even close imo

At a minimum it's going to fade quickly - no pad material left.

You could coast or use your clutch I suppose...

New pads have about 9 mm of material
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Old 06-01-2006, 12:46 PM   #5
tracks
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Hi,

Thanks for the responses...

if new pads are 9mm, then by the quick math of it all, im using 1mm/day on 80 mins of track, assuming 7mm is used, 1mm of that on street driving, and the remaining 6mm on 6 track days. I'm surprised it's that much, I wonder if that can be right? But, even if go conservative at 4mm used over 6 days (0.67mm/day) I need to replace.


Now here's the tough part, dealer is firm on 1mm being the max. suggestions?

Since the pads are wearing so differently inside/outside, assuming its uneven pressure and not pad material, I guess one option is to rotate the pad inside/outside. thoughts?

thanks again
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Old 06-01-2006, 12:47 PM   #6
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Anything less than 60% is foolhardy. You'll likely wear through that 4mm/1.9mm before you're done with your 160 minutes.

If there's a proper tech they won't allow you out on course.

9mm is the OEM pad thickness, 11mm is what Carbotech Bobcats and XP8s come with, and I chuck 'em at 6mm.

It's time for new pads, and since you have the $ for track days, you have the $ to do it right. Get race pads/fluid for track days and street/autox pads for the rest of the time.
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Old 06-01-2006, 12:50 PM   #7
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I only measured the pad material itself - dunno if thats the difference. Either way - you are likely going to waste a lot of money on a track day over a set of pads.

The inner pad wears more rapidly most likely due to it getting hotter because of the dust shield.
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Old 06-01-2006, 03:32 PM   #8
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OMG, new pads for sure. The inner one probably wouldn't last one session.
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Old 06-01-2006, 04:59 PM   #9
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You need new pads... Something agressive like the Pagid race/track. We use them both on track and street and they are awesome pads. Very easy on the rotors too.

http://www.racecompengineering.com/brakepad.html

RaceComp Engineering/GTWorx
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Old 06-02-2006, 10:46 PM   #10
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Your pads should be wearing evenly- you might want to chase that down- you have opposed pistons, not sliders.

I don't recommend you eek this much out (I was very carefully watching them and swapped them out for new in between sessions)

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Old 06-03-2006, 12:03 AM   #11
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get new pads please
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Old 06-03-2006, 03:24 AM   #12
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BibSky also has the knack for making everything work perfect - those pads don't have a mm of taper

my stuff got all outta shape - fell apart - boots melted - springs fell out - jeez...
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Old 06-03-2006, 10:02 AM   #13
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^ it was amazing actually both sides (left and right and inner/outer) were exactly even- no taper longitudinally or vertically. The last three sets of pads have seen the same "even-steven" wear.

I can tell you that w/ my old oe sliders that wasn't always the case.
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Old 06-06-2006, 06:22 PM   #14
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good lord get some new pads
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Old 06-07-2006, 09:42 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mav1c
Replace them. I wouldn't want to use the stock pads at the track anyway.
Oh dear .... replace your pads dude, and for the love of god - UPGRADE YOUR BRAKE FLUID BEFORE GOING TO THE TRACK.

I know first hand why it's stupid to run a track day on stock pads and fluid.

This is me on stock pads and fluid going off track at Summit Point after boiling my brake fluid at 120MPH:



Fortunately, I was able to save it ...
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Old 06-08-2006, 11:14 PM   #16
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Got them replaced under warranty and all is good in the world. Thanks for the thoughts and guidance everyone.
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Old 06-09-2006, 07:00 AM   #17
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Did you upgrade your fliud? If not ... don't say I didn't warn you
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Old 06-12-2006, 12:40 AM   #18
tracks
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Hi,

Fortunately I haven't had an issue with the fluid boiling or any part of the stock brakes overheating in any way. Since track times are relatively short 20 min periods, and tracks like Buttonwillow and Willowsprings have plenty of straights all the way around, I haven't felt any performance loss with warm 95-105 temps this weekend or hot days on big willow in the past. Currently running stock except 235 RA1's. Tires will exceed traction before the brakes fade with smooth braking on most corners and just a few trail brakes. All in all, the STi brakes are excellent on track.

But changing any part of the equation could obviously push the brakes past their capabilities, whether it be (a) carrying more speed (engine, suspension tunning, etc), (b) stickier/wider tires, (c) different combination of pads/rotors, and/or (d) just general driving style (late braking and/or over driving the car).

Having said all that, I think you're right; there is no reason not to go with better fluid when the opportunity arises, and from a safety perspective it's a lot cheaper than going off. I did hear of one person boiling their fluid today in a toyota street car, although with a few offs I think the fluid was only a symptom of overdriving the car.
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Old 06-12-2006, 07:16 AM   #19
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That off above was my 4th track session that weekend, 20 minute sessions. Boiling your fluid doesn't equate to over driving the car, it's just how hard you push it. My prior 3 sessions I was just getting more and more comfortable with the track, finally, my comfort level was high enough that I could really start pushing the car.

After about only 5 laps of pushing 8/10ths, I lost the brakes. I was running stock RE-070's and had no issues with grip all weekend.

In the end, it's up to you. But, it's VERY easy to overdrive the stock brakes without otherwise exceeding the limits of the car. The stock pads and fluid are not that great.
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Old 06-12-2006, 09:04 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tracks

Now here's the tough part, dealer is firm on 1mm being the max. suggestions?

Since the pads are wearing so differently inside/outside, assuming its uneven pressure and not pad material, I guess one option is to rotate the pad inside/outside. thoughts?

thanks again
I would say after the first few said whatthey said discussion should have been over. The dealer isnt at the track when you are trying to stop your 35k car from plowing into a barrier and all those equations wont either. Taking a fast car to the track is a gamble at best even when you have ALL your ducks in a row. So this should have been a short thread. Sorry I wanst the person who responded earlier. I have lost brakes in cars and been in cars with students who lost brakes, its not a pleasant experience. So if you have to ask the question, then answer it for yourself and air onthe side of caution.

And dont get me wrong here, I am not being smart azz, I am trying to look out for you. Its nothing like watching someone stand over their car in a pile before the roll back scoops it up.

Not saying you are cheap, but this thread you should read.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...official+cheap

Myles
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Old 06-12-2006, 09:27 AM   #21
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I was wondering if you'd chime in or not Myles

Tracks ... it's this simple (and we're all saying the same thing here):

If you want to crash your car, or have an otherwise miserable track weekend, keep the stock brakes.

If you want to have fun, not crash, and have confidence that you're brakes will be there when you need them, do the following (at the very least):
-Upgrade your fluid to something like ATE SUper Blue, it's like $15 a can and you'll only need one to compeltely bleed the system.
-Upgrade your pads to something more aggressive (HAWK HP+, Pagid Blue, etc come to mind)
-BED YOUR BRAKES IN PROPERLY! <--- Skipping that step, or doing it incorrectly will greatly reduce your braking performance.

We're all just trying to help you from farming or wadding up your car dude.
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