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Old 06-01-2006, 10:03 AM   #1
xolosis
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 103373
Join Date: Dec 2005
Default Drop in Peak Power at 5500rpm onwards

Went to the dyno and was aiming for 300whp (220wkw). We couldn't work out why peak power was dropping off so suddenly then we noticed this at around 5000-5500rpm. Look and see how the ECU is dropping 4-5 degrees of timing for some unknown reason. Frustrating as it is robbing peak power of about 20whp...

Code:
 4001 +17.6 4.0 100 100    00  10.9  +16.7   59.9 +18.1  -3.7 220.00 3.9  10.89
 4050 +17.6 4.0 100 100    00  10.9  +16.6   59.0 +18.1  -3.5 220.00 3.9  10.89
 4020 +17.4 4.0 100  90    00  10.9  +16.6   58.4 +18.2  -3.5 220.00 3.9  10.89
 4065 +17.8 4.0 100  90    00  10.9  +16.5   56.9 +18.3  -3.8 220.00 3.9  10.89
 4070 +17.8 4.0 100 100    00  10.9  +16.9   59.7 +18.2  -3.7 220.00 3.8  10.89
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 5012 +18.5 4.3 100 100    00  10.9  +18.8   71.5 +22.0  -4.9 220.00 4.1  10.87
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 6082 +19.1 4.4 100 100    00  10.6  +13.6   86.2 +23.0  -4.0 220.00 4.2  10.64
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 6127 +18.9 4.4 100 100    00  10.6  +13.4   87.5 +23.0  -3.7 220.00 4.3  10.62
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 6422 +17.0 4.4 100  90    00  10.9  +15.7   83.6 +23.0  -4.6 220.00 4.2  10.87
 6397 +17.2 4.4 100  90    00  10.9  +15.7   87.4 +23.0  -4.4 220.00 4.2  10.87
 6548 +17.0 4.5 100  90    00  10.9  +15.6   86.2 +23.0  -4.4 220.00 4.3  10.90
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 6497 +17.0 4.5 100  90    00  10.9  +16.0   92.8 +23.0  -4.2 220.00 4.3  10.87
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Old 06-01-2006, 11:35 AM   #2
mick_the_ginge
Citizen Mick
 
Member#: 27646
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle:
2003 Sleeved 2.5
Oil Dry Sump Goodness

Default

That unknown reason being that the ECU thinks you have detonation.

Post your mods.

Remember that the UTEC is in control of timing not the ECU. AS you have MAF modifications the ECU timing values are meaningless other than the reflection of how well the ECU thinks the tune is.

I see your boost spikes to 20 psi at 5300 rpm, not a great spot as this is a prime knock spot. That's in the first part of the log.

As the power is dropping off and the UTEC timing stays the same I would have to say that the power loss is due to the fact that you are running less boost up top and you go richer.

What worries me more is that you are even looking at the stock ECU timing while the UTEC is on control.
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Old 06-01-2006, 06:07 PM   #3
xolosis
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 103373
Join Date: Dec 2005
Default

The reason why I looked at what the ECU was doing is because my other road tuned logs don't show this kind of behaviour. This log is a on a Dyno and the ECU only started dropping timing after a couple of pulls. This is the exact spot where the power dives sharply. I've now lowered my boost, do you think I'm running too much timing up top?

Car is a Forester XT MY04 5MT
3" Turbo Back Exahaust with Open Dump
AVO 400L Turbo (Similiar to SBR 12 as its Garratt based and ratet at 440HP)
Stock STi 550cc Injectors
Stock Airbox (could be an restriction)
Supporting mods (Fuel Rails, Sard Regulator, Oil Catch Can)

There is something definitely holding the top end back but we can't seem to put our finger on it? I've reset the stock ECU and the car seems smoother already? Strange!
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Old 06-01-2006, 10:36 PM   #4
tmarcel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mick_the_ginge
I would have to say that the power loss is due to the fact that you are running less boost up top and you go richer.

^^^^^
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Old 06-05-2006, 03:38 PM   #5
Freon
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^^^IAWTP^^^

Your boost drops from 20 to 17 right at the same spot. 20psi at about ~5375, then only 17.0 at ~5650.

The timing drop on the ECU cannot affect your power because the UTEC is running timing. That number is only there for information. It is what your ECU would be running, IF it were in control of timing. But it is not...

I'd run a log from the ECU to see if you can find out why the ECU isn't happy. You should be able to see your KC go nuts there. It looks like right at 5450 the ECU thinks you got mad knock even if the UTEC didn't pick it up.

You're hitting 23deg by 5250rpm at 20psi. That might be too much, without knowing what you're running. I'd drop a degree or two and not hit 23degrees until 6250rpm or so.
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Old 06-05-2006, 09:45 PM   #6
xolosis
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I've been doing alot of tuning and testing since and have dropped my timing back to 21 up to. I've managed to get turbo to spool much quicker and in doing so are running a more consistent 18psi throughout the rev range. The car pulls much harder in the low-mid range but won't know if I mad improvments in the topend.

Now I've heard talk about KC associated to the stock ECU which I know nothing about. What does KC stand for and what is its relation to the stock ECU?
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Old 06-05-2006, 09:57 PM   #7
tmarcel
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KC = Knock Correction.
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Old 06-06-2006, 02:34 AM   #8
xolosis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmarcel
KC = Knock Correction.
Doh! Of course!!!
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