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Old 06-07-2006, 12:19 AM   #1
RamzaRS
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Default Why Edmunds (com) Times are slow. Response from Edmunds.

I've been wondering since Day 1, why Edmunds<com> times were absolutely awful with the STI, the WRX, and the Legacy. So i wrote an email asking them.

My question: "How come Edmunds<com> does not know how to launch an AWD Car? Why are your times so much slower than every other source? Specifically for the STI and the Legacy! What gives?"

Their Response:

"Krystian,

Thanks for your comments.

We have also noticed that manufacturer numbers are sometimes a bit different from ours. Here is what we have found:

We do not know when auto manufacturers start the timer. Some manufacturers use what drag racers call a “rollout” which is the one-foot distance between the second staging lamp and the timer/red light beam. Basically, the car gets to accelerate one foot before the timer starts, which is generally good for 0.3 seconds reduction in 0~60 and quarter-mile time. Some acceleration instrumentation software allows for rollouts of up to 3 feet. That would reduce the acceleration time even more.

We have not been using “rollout” and have instead been measuring instantaneously from zero. So if manufacturers are using it, we are giving up 0.3 seconds or more right there. Because quarter-mile and 0~60 times are basically a drag racing invention, we are re-evaluating this policy. If we want our drag strip numbers to compare to other drag strip numbers, then perhaps we had better adopt the same rollout technique. Indeed, the NHRA method, including the 1 foot rollout, is a widely recognized standard. SAE used to have a standard, but it has been withdrawn.

Most auto manufacturers measure with a lightly optioned vehicle in order to get a good time. In many cases, the press fleet cars we test are loaded with every conceivable US market option. Therefore, the cars we test are about the heaviest (and slowest) ones possible. We have purchased scales with which we will begin measuring the “as tested” weight to help illustrate this sort of discrepancy. The website doesn’t have a spot for that on the specs page yet, but we plan to add it.

Dan Edmunds
Director of Vehicle Testing
Edmunds<com>"

P.S. I had to insert the stupid <> brackets because NASIOC wont let me post URL.

(btw, ive been a member since 04, i just lose my password, the username, and the email account got deleted.)
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Last edited by RamzaRS; 06-07-2006 at 01:06 AM.
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Old 06-07-2006, 12:45 AM   #2
BigElm
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Welcome n00b
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Old 06-07-2006, 12:51 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigElm
Welcome n00b
thats one warm welcome


but dang.. so whenever reading on edmunds about the times.. i guess from now on expect a .3 shaved off
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Old 06-07-2006, 07:07 AM   #4
kenzo
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That was actually one of the more substantive email responses I've seen. At least they didn't just blow off your question.

Last edited by kenzo; 06-07-2006 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 06-07-2006, 07:44 AM   #5
woody06967
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I'm shocked someone in a real position responded to you, and responded with an honest reply.
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Old 06-07-2006, 09:41 AM   #6
Corkfish
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I don't buy that a 12 inch rollout equates to .3 seconds. The manufacture numbers are always slower than the magazine testing as well.
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Old 06-07-2006, 11:29 AM   #7
bull3964
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Edmunds is always slower on their times just as Car and Driver is always quicker. It's pretty much the way things work.

Every mag has a different testing methodolgy for their numbers. Did you know that C&D times are not raw times? They use a series of correction values for things like temperature and atomospheric pressure. So, obviously, their times are only as good as their correction values and we have no basis of judgement for that.

At the end of the day, you really can only compare numbers within a certain test and (much more loosely) a particular mag. Cross comparing numbers from different sources just doesn't work.

Really though, it doesn't quite matter. The 0-60 time is only a talking point and if you get bent out of shape over 0.3 of a second you need to re-evaluate your priorities in life.
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Old 06-07-2006, 11:52 AM   #8
rsholland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bull3964
Really though, it doesn't quite matter. The 0-60 time is only a talking point and if you get bent out of shape over 0.3 of a second you need to re-evaluate your priorities in life.
Exactly. What counts is how it performs in real-life driving conditions. Much of this 0–60 stuff is purely for bragging rights, and has little to due with how one really drives.

I think a rolling accelleration test starting from 5 mph is more meaningful to most people.

Bob
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Old 06-07-2006, 01:56 PM   #9
hauvis
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edmunds is crazy
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Old 06-07-2006, 02:39 PM   #10
grzydj
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I don't know, I thought his response was pretty fair. Makes sense to me.
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Old 06-07-2006, 03:21 PM   #11
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At the least the guy didn't tell ya to go **** in your fist.

Good job Edmunds.
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Old 06-07-2006, 03:40 PM   #12
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Considering the negative tone that could inadvertantly be attributed to the original question, it generated a very complete and well thought-out answer. So yes, good job Edmunds.

I believe the 0.3 second BTW. The first foot is when engine's torque is going into lifting the nose and compressing the rear suspension, instead of moving the car.
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Old 06-07-2006, 03:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bull3964
Did you know that C&D times are not raw times? They use a series of correction values for things like temperature and atomospheric pressure.
This is the core of it right here.

I really wish the automotive journalism industry would do away with the 0-60 benchmark.
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Old 06-07-2006, 07:50 PM   #14
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Well, whether they're relative (read: inaccurate) times or not, it's a number that you can use, at least in one magazine, to compare acceleration times between cars. Even if it is nothing more than an ego-based comparison, it's something people want to know.
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Old 06-07-2006, 10:59 PM   #15
RamzaRS
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Believe me, i was pretty surprised too when i saw a response in my mailbox (the question i had thought out before was alot more aggressive). At least they are going to make some changes to it it though. Maybe just go away with it and leave the 1/4. People just use it to compare different cars anyways.
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Old 06-08-2006, 02:57 AM   #16
rice h8r
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woaaa a person named Edmunds DOES exist...
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