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Old 10-16-2006, 11:10 PM   #251
Patrick Olsen
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I agree with MeanEditor, but I also think I know what Migo meant. For 1 lap there's no reason the N20 car wouldn't be faster. For a 20min session, though? Admittedly, I don't have much concept of how long a bottle of N20 will last, but I would think if you're getting on the giggle gas over and over again lap after lap that it wouldn't last very long, particularly if it's triggered off RPM or TPS.

And taking this a bit further off topic , be advised, MeanEditor, that the overwhelming majority of open track clubs won't allow N20.

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Old 10-17-2006, 12:35 AM   #252
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That is why we have our own private testing ground.

...and at Subiefest we set the rules...
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Old 10-17-2006, 07:12 AM   #253
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Quote:
If a nitrous car can hit X amount of horsepower and a turbo/supercharged car can hit the same level, and a NA car can hit about 50whp less, the nitrous car would still come in last place if you were to take all four cars around Laguna Seca for 1 lap.
Not completely true. If you were to pit an STi against a Lotus elise on Laguna Seca I would bet on the less powerful elise to take the win. Horsepower is not everything when it comes to racing on the track.

Quote:
How so? n02 can be activated in a number of ways. Like at WOT, so you can use it up the back straight and the front staight or maybe the spurt from turn 3-4 and then between 5-6 to the kink leading up to the back straight...

Basically you can use it like an on/off switch or you can trigger it based on a set of parameters like TPS, RPM etc. It's not just for drag racing. Although it will be interesting to see how it behaves in a road course setting which is where we will use it.
Yeah nitrous can be activated in a number of ways, but I just don't see how it's going to be very useful on a track. Sure you can use it on the straights, but is that really going to help you that much? Probably not. That and the fact that if you're WOT on those straights, that bottle of nitrous is not going to last you no more than a couple of laps at the very most.

The nice thing about a turbo compared to nitrous when considering these types of racing conditions, is the fact that power and boost is built up gradually. With the nitrous, it's going to be a full on hit at WOT, and is going to put a lot more stress on your drivetrain than a turbo ever would.

Now, I'm not against putting a nitrous set up on a RS. In fact I'm all for it. However I feel, as many others probably do, that if you were to put nitrous on the ZtH car, then that would defeat the whole purpose, and you would have totaly de-railed from the original goal of the ZtH RS. The goal was to beat an STi in drag, track, stoping etc. with a fully built N/A RS. Nitrous is a form of forced induction. Therefore if you had to use nitrous to do it, then you didn't do it on a fully built all motor RS.

Your build as is, is farily impressive. I don't think you got near the power you thought you would,or we hoped you would, but it's still a great improvement over stock. You're now at that point where you have a great base to jump from. It's time to be innovative, and to push the limits. If zzyzx can build a 300chp all motor subaru, then I'm sure you can get fairly close to the same power output. You just have to get beyond the dd friendly cams and head work, and start getting agressive. It's time to do some R&D and see what these motors can really do. IMO I don't see why it's not possible to have one of these motors crank out 100-110hp per litre, and still be driveable on the street.

Hopefully you guys get back on track, and put more into building a great N/A car. Save the nitrous for when you want to make 300+whp.
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Old 10-18-2006, 04:03 AM   #254
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Default not forced induction

first off, N02 is NOT forced induction. It is a power adder true, but FI it is not. Forced induction uses an impeller to force more air into the combustion chamber. nitrous is shooting oxygen, essentially, into the engine in an inert form, then when it combines with fuel it basically breaks down so that we have all this 02 in the combustion chamber and BLAMO, more power.
Nitrous is essentially fuel, in a way. Yes, I suppose you are shooting more air into the car via a nozzle, but only in a round about way is that FORCING air in.
The car is still NA, PERIOD.

Secondly, I think the ZZyxz car has proven that our build is just mild.
Anyone notice how much the headwork on that car goes for retail? Over $4,000... for just the heads. That is more than our entire engine and then some. So while we are rolling with a 3500 engine, that other car probably has maybe twice to 2.5 times into the engine what we have. Also, it's a racecar that is not daily driven.

Also as pointed out above, put a 120hp elise vs the STi on the track and buh-by STi. The ZtH car has an amazing chassis/tire package now so it will out-handle an STi no prob.

Also, we aren't racing at Laguna, we are racing at Pacific with LONG straights... I think a little power adder will come in handy.
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Old 10-30-2006, 09:09 PM   #255
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great write up! it helped me out alot thanks!!!
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Old 11-23-2006, 07:53 AM   #256
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Bump for this thread. Check out this link I found from Cobb from back in the day.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...bb+header+dyno

Last edited by X4 SRT; 11-23-2006 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 04-11-2007, 04:36 AM   #257
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Fantastic write-up. Props to the original writer and all contributers.
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Old 04-25-2007, 02:20 AM   #258
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great write-up, some good responses when sorting through the bull****.
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Old 04-25-2007, 07:13 AM   #259
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Thanks, its good to see ppl still read this.
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Old 11-26-2007, 03:16 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally_wgn View Post
THE SMALL STUFF

PULLEYS AND LIGHTWEIGHT FLYWHEELS
There are other “power” mods that are popular that if anything improve the feel of the car. The lightweight pulley is generally considered a useful mod. It reduces the drag of rotational weight on the crankshaft “releasing” about 3-5hp worth of energy to the wheels. The biggest benefit being better throttle response and faster revving.

Mr Josh sells a pulley for about $75.

Lightweight Flywheels provide the same type of gain as the pulley. It is generally recommended that you don’t do both the flywheel and the pulley as it may cause the car to idle poorly. Some owner report no problems but the recommendation is from knowledgeable sources.


GROUNDING KITS
Paranoid Fabrications sells a nice kit onfor between $35 and $50 depending on the level of wire and fabrication desired. He can be found on www.rs25.com .

THROTTLE BODY SPACER
While not a new concept in N/A performance enhancement, suppliers for this part for the EJ25 seem to be just one. Area1320 sells a EJ25 TB spacer and has dynos on their site showing around 4hp gain.
Noob questions:
I don't suppose anyone can post current contact info for any of these companies/guys?

Does it make a significant difference between a lightweight pulley and a lightweight pulley set?
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Old 11-26-2007, 03:42 PM   #261
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PF
http://www.camotoy.com/products/index.php

Area1320
http://www.area1320.com/products.html

However, your best bet is to log on to RS25 to contact them. All of their products and services can be had over there as well.
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Old 11-26-2007, 03:48 PM   #262
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PF is on this site, but in Suspension most of the time. You can find him, by company name there.
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Old 11-26-2007, 03:50 PM   #263
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The PF grounding kits are good

I hear the fender braces and stuff are good too.
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Old 11-26-2007, 04:30 PM   #264
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+1 for PF's grounding kit.
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Old 12-04-2007, 03:38 AM   #265
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thanks for compiling this list! will definitely look into what you've said, maybe even get one of those upgrades in the near future? very much helpful!
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Old 12-05-2007, 01:04 AM   #266
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After reading through the 11 pages of good, and bad information I can honestly say it has made me stray from the snail power.




~Josh~
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Old 12-05-2007, 01:26 AM   #267
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Great Read! Me thinks it deserves a Sticky
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Old 12-06-2007, 10:13 PM   #268
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thanks, I have been looking for something like this, makes me feel more confident
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Old 01-31-2008, 03:02 PM   #269
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this should be a sticky
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Old 01-31-2008, 09:27 PM   #270
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+1 for this being a sticky!

Great for new n/a modders looking for reference to see what they can/should do to get the results they want for the $ they can spend. PLUS i bookmarked it for a reference in case i need to find something i read on here but cant remember later on.
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Old 02-01-2008, 08:31 AM   #271
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my roommate has a 99rs and has decided to go with the 2.2 heads... hopefully it is a good decsion... should he get it PnP with some cams or just stick with the stock 2.2L head's design?
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Old 02-01-2008, 05:02 PM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally_wgn View Post

There is also the Frankenstein motor. This is a 2.5L block with 2.2L heads which bumps compression up to the 11.2:1 area. I haven’t seen any dynos but the math makes sense
i looked in this thread, and did not see any more... is there any more info on this idea other then post #2?
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Old 03-18-2008, 05:50 AM   #273
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Nothing new?
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Old 03-18-2008, 10:09 AM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
i looked in this thread, and did not see any more... is there any more info on this idea other then post #2?
search frankenmotor on here. It's here in the N/A tuning thread and has been updated in the last 2 months. I would go find it but I'm busy.

Kevin
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Old 03-19-2008, 03:55 PM   #275
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Common upgrades don't change. I'm not exactly sure what "new" thing you would be expecting. All of this is pretty generic stuff and there really isn't any magic fix.
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