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Old 06-14-2006, 05:20 PM   #1
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Default Ford plans to move production to Mexico (again)

Local news channel in Detroit is reporting that many Ford plants in US will be closed and moved to Mexico. Someone in Ford has leaked internal documents that details the plan. Ford will be investing around $10Billion and Mexico government has promised over $500Million in subsidies. This a part of Ford's Move Forward restructuring program.
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:17 PM   #2
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Meanwhile, more asian companies open plants in the US...
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Old 06-15-2006, 02:27 AM   #3
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El Fordo? No mas!
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Old 06-15-2006, 04:03 AM   #4
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damn, I hate Ford.... they have low quality stuff enough already.... now they're gonna go profit more by making cheaper crap with cheaper production costs and selling it to some of the people in the states who don't ever compare cars to see which is better... Explorer is like the top selling SUV, but people don't realize that the Xterra has more power and costs less.... So what if the car is pretty or whatever... stupid consumers....
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Old 06-15-2006, 07:44 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhettoerkP
.... now they're gonna go profit more by making cheaper crap with cheaper production costs
They are trying not to go bankrupt. Thank the unions for this. I doubt the unions will let them move production to Mexico so Ford will be in the position where they have to move everything or nothing to Mexico.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GhettoerkP
... Explorer is like the top selling SUV, but people don't realize that the Xterra has more power and costs less.... So what if the car is pretty or whatever... stupid consumers....
You can get an Explorer with a 3rd row seat, a V8, more towing capacity than an Xterra, and oh yeah, soccer moms like the way it looks better than the XTerra. The interior is also much nicer if you get one of the upgraded packages. The XTerra is better offroad, but seriously, how many people really take their's offroad? Also, since 2002, the Explorer has been very reliable and safe. The XTerra in general costs much less and the Explorer is for people who want something that size that is a little nicer.
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Old 06-15-2006, 09:42 AM   #6
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Default Quick Quiz

Multiple Choice: Car Buyer's Patriotic Conundrum.

You're going to buy a new car and you've decided to "buy American". You narrow your selection down to two brands. Which Blue Oval dealership to you visit?
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Old 06-15-2006, 10:10 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaverboy
Multiple Choice: Car Buyer's Patriotic Conundrum.

You're going to buy a new car and you've decided to "buy American". You narrow your selection down to two brands. Which Blue Oval dealership to you visit?
If my choice was based solely on the logos, it would definitely be a Ford.

Bob
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Old 06-15-2006, 10:52 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsholland
If my choice was based solely on the logos, it would definitely be a Ford.

Bob
Too bad this is probably the logic behind choices of a majority of the car-buying public.

I'm betting that this is just posturing on Ford's part to get a better deal from the UAW. While not many folks know that many foreign cars are actually built in the US, I think everyone would know that their Exploders were assembled in Mexico. They'd have to throw a lot of pesos on the hood to move those trucks then.
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Old 06-15-2006, 11:00 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott_gunn
They are trying not to go bankrupt. Thank the unions for this.
No, Bad business move's, poor marketing, and bad engineering has lead to this. not some guy building a car ford told them to build.
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Old 06-15-2006, 11:00 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott_gunn
They are trying not to go bankrupt. Thank the unions for this. I doubt the unions will let them move production to Mexico so Ford will be in the position where they have to move everything or nothing to Mexico.

Typically wrong anti-union comments.

Ford's (as well as GM's) problems ALL stem from clueless management. The unions are the scapegoat for a management that has blown billions of dollars on bad deals and lost focus on making good Fords and Mercurys and Linconhs - and instead wasting countless amounts of money on building up very low volume marques like Jag, Aston, Range Rover and even Mazda.

The unions are not the ones to blame when the last generation Tauras was a horrible design (which essentially made Ford lose the family sedan business), nor are they to blame for the poor quality designed in cars like the early Focuses. They also aren't to blame for the boring design of the new T-bird, nor were they the ones at the helm when Ford essentially dropped out of the car business and focus solely on their F-150.

But keep believing that it's the unions fault - it's lots easier that way.
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Old 06-15-2006, 11:22 AM   #11
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Look nthe bright side; maybe less Mexicans will illegally enter the US if there are more jobs in Mexico. Maybe they'll form their own unions and start earning more than subsistance wages. And maybe monkeys will fly out of my butt...
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Old 06-15-2006, 12:37 PM   #12
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I agree, if it was a single problem, then Ford would have already made the change. When the Big 3 started dictating to the public what they were going to buy, the public went elsewhere.

Anyway enough

Quote:
Originally Posted by warpath
No, Bad business move's, poor marketing, and bad engineering has lead to this. not some guy building a car ford told them to build.
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Old 06-15-2006, 12:40 PM   #13
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There's no way you can convince me that the UAW hasn't put the American companies at a competitive disadvantage. That's exactly why Ford wants to move production to Mexico. If they spend less per car on labor and employee benefits, they'll be able to afford higher quality parts as well as free up some budget for R&D.
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Old 06-15-2006, 12:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott_gunn
There's no way you can convince me that the UAW hasn't put the American companies at a competitive disadvantage. That's exactly why Ford wants to move production to Mexico. If they spend less per car on labor and employee benefits, they'll be able to afford higher quality parts as well as free up some budget for R&D.
Talking out of your ass again?

OH NOES?!? Someone better quick tell Toyota to raise the price of their United Auto Workers-built Corolla cuz they can't possilby sell it for that little and still make money on it.
http://uaw.com/uawmade/auto/2006/uawcars.cfm

^^Union built car - yet conveniently it's not only extremely high quality (for any price), but is actually profitable for Toyota.

I just love hearing people that don't know jack about manufacturing and yet still add in their clueless opinions concerning such things.
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Old 06-15-2006, 01:05 PM   #15
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Keep in mind that these UAW agreements weren't made up yesterday or 2 years ago... this, whether you want to admit it or not, it has done it's influence to the manufacturers suffering as of recent though these contracts were signed decades ago.

Now it still doesn't excuse the manufactureres from having poor quality and reliability issues.

I say do whatever it takes (legally) to get your butt back in the market, even if it means moving to Mexico. We complain about people losing their jobs here yet they're the ones that jack knife the company. I wonder how Japanese people feel when you have companies like Toyota, Honda and Subaru employing Americans here when they should be supporting their homeland... I guess it goes hand in hand.
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Old 06-15-2006, 01:15 PM   #16
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Hazdaz - Toyota is not paying through the nose to support thousands of retired Union workers - yet (they haven't been in the US long enough). The retirement/health care benefits that the domestics pay for all their retired workers is a HUGE sum. The amount the Japs/Koreans spend on their retired workers is a tiny, tiny amount in comparison.

I think it's pretty sad how the Delphi workers are threatening to strike while their company is going bankrupt from high labor expenses.
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Old 06-15-2006, 01:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigElm
Keep in mind that these UAW agreements weren't made up yesterday or 2 years ago... this, whether you want to admit it or not, it has done it's influence to the manufacturers suffering as of recent though these contracts were signed decades ago.

Now it still doesn't excuse the manufactureres from having poor quality and reliability issues.

I say do whatever it takes (legally) to get your butt back in the market, even if it means moving to Mexico. We complain about people losing their jobs here yet they're the ones that jack knife the company. I wonder how Japanese people feel when you have companies like Toyota, Honda and Subaru employing Americans here when they should be supporting their homeland... I guess it goes hand in hand.
Good point Elm, let me add one more thing if i may...


Union contacts are negotiated between the company and the union's and they BOTH must agree with the terms and condition's of said contract. If one or the other is not happy there are usally window's in the contract in which they can open the contract's back up for negotiation's. To blame only one party for giving that company a "Compeitive Disadvatage" is totally ridiculous assumption.
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Old 06-15-2006, 02:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott_gunn
If they spend less per car on labor and employee benefits, they'll be able to afford higher CEO salaries and bonuses, and then blame their poor quality on Mexican assembly plants that were forced upon them by high cost American labor.
Fix0r3d
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Old 06-15-2006, 03:01 PM   #19
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LOL - you are probably right about that, gargleblaster.
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Old 06-16-2006, 09:00 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigElm
I wonder how Japanese people feel when you have companies like Toyota, Honda and Subaru employing Americans here when they should be supporting their homeland... I guess it goes hand in hand.
Doesn't work that way though. Most of the time (even though I know not always), the US plants of Japanese companies are there to build cars strictly for the US market.

I have no problem with that in the slightest bit - you pay your US workers with US dollars and sell your product for US dollars also. But Ford uprooting existing factories and shipping them to Mexico (and soon we will be hearing this happening with CHina) is totaly BS.

And like was mentioned above - no one 'forced' Ford or GM to sign these labor agreements. It's called negotiating - and if Ford has such bad management that they can't even negotiate a reaasonable agreement, that is just one MORE failure on their end. (along with their failure to design desirable shapes and their failure to engineer high quality and efficient vehicles, as well as their failure to actually focus on the industry that they are in, and not go blow billions on failed dealings with other car makers).


GM atleast seems to be turning their shti around - most of their new concepts look quite hot, and more and more of their production models look quite capable.
Ford, not so much.
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Old 06-16-2006, 09:07 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott_gunn
Hazdaz - Toyota is not paying through the nose to support thousands of retired Union workers - yet (they haven't been in the US long enough).
If you know you have a large 'family' to feed, you shouldn't be taking parttime jobs. Ford knows exactly what those legacy costs are, and instead of planning for the future, Ford management relegated themselves to being a 2-bit player in the car business, while galavanting the UK and buying up every loose carmaker in site.

Ford is job uno.
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Old 06-16-2006, 09:43 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazdaz
Doesn't work that way though. Most of the time (even though I know not always), the US plants of Japanese companies are there to build cars strictly for the US market.
You've only defended your comments by justifying that it's ok in your eyes that Japanese companies do this because they're helping US workers and the US dollar.

Point I'm making (and forget US workers at this point) is that regardless for what market these vehilces are being made for, it would still benefit Japanese workers to have employment, better their economy making these vehicles in their homeland. But because of labor costs, shipping and other expenses, they chose to move where it would cost them less and have a better incentive or tax break to relieve the manufacturer.

Again, Ford can not excuse themselves from making low quality vehicles, regardless where they move to. With the exception of the Mustang, their designs are hideous.
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Old 06-16-2006, 11:36 AM   #23
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Quality must be something more than a slogan.

Take care of the customer
Take care of the employee
The money will take care of itself.

Sounds too simple. I admire big business, right now we are seeing what happens when a company got too big and stopped listening to the customer. Quality is quality regardless of the marketing and the price.
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Old 06-16-2006, 05:28 PM   #24
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+1. If anything, the unions and the workers' fate hinge even more on a successful Ford recovery since it's their own livelihoods at stake.

People like Rick Wagoner, Jim Padilla, Bill Ford and Jac Nasser all have their golden parachutes, so they could care less about their blue-collared counterparts.

Look at the Toyota Tacoma, Toyota Corolla and the Mazda6. These are all cars built in UAW plants, yet nobody goes around calling them junk.

I think that Ron Gettelfinger and the UAW leadership could probably do a better job of running any one of the Big Three than the buffoons currently running the show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazdaz

Typically wrong anti-union comments.

Ford's (as well as GM's) problems ALL stem from clueless management. The unions are the scapegoat for a management that has blown billions of dollars on bad deals and lost focus on making good Fords and Mercurys and Linconhs - and instead wasting countless amounts of money on building up very low volume marques like Jag, Aston, Range Rover and even Mazda.

The unions are not the ones to blame when the last generation Tauras was a horrible design (which essentially made Ford lose the family sedan business), nor are they to blame for the poor quality designed in cars like the early Focuses. They also aren't to blame for the boring design of the new T-bird, nor were they the ones at the helm when Ford essentially dropped out of the car business and focus solely on their F-150.

But keep believing that it's the unions fault - it's lots easier that way.
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Old 06-19-2006, 09:55 PM   #25
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The Ford in Mexico has been going on for a while (Escort and Fusion are two that come to mind) It seems that they will just be makin more there.

I have a friend who works at a VW dealership. They can tell which Golf/Jettas are made in Germany, and which in Mexico. Mexico ones have problems outnumbering 2-1
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