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Old 06-29-2006, 03:41 PM   #26
jared nelson
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oh wait, I know what you mean!!! that was my first idea. Ill show you the diagram I made. Its alittle different, cuz its old, but i think this is what you mean.

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Old 06-30-2006, 04:10 AM   #27
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I got some more structure thrown together tonight. ****ing took me forever too. Oh well.

Should be able to have the frame all together, and then the front A arms together and the steering, by next week end at the very latest.
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Old 07-05-2006, 10:04 PM   #28
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Just for an update, I got a bunch of **** in the mail today. I was waiting on the rest of my heim joints to come before I could put the front suspension together. This is going to be the funnest part.

This week I should be able to get the front A arms totally mounted up, and ready, as well as the front spindles, since I have those already. I should be able to mount the engine in the car, which is a breakthrough too, and get the chain drive stuff figured out. I have the R160 rear diff mounted in, and it is all ready to go, and the seats are also coming up.
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Old 07-06-2006, 01:17 AM   #29
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sounds good...now to find a properly sized turbo or roots blower (yes they exist) for that engine
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Old 07-06-2006, 02:11 PM   #30
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Did the tubing bender come with the correct dies or did you have to buy them from somewhere else?
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Old 07-06-2006, 02:18 PM   #31
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the bender came with the center dies needed to bend everything from like 1 inche on up to 2 I think. Ill only need the 1 and 1.25 inch dies really. The thign it didn't come with is the 2 dies that go into the sides. This bender dimples pipe bad because those 2 dies are not sized right. I am goign to buy 2 new dies for that side, and that will allow the bender to bend really well. I also hear that if you fill the pipe with sand, and cap it off when you bend it, you wont dimple the pipe as bad.
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Old 07-06-2006, 02:22 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX
sounds good...now to find a properly sized turbo or roots blower (yes they exist) for that engine
Around here people are using gt12 turbos. I am going to probably use a t22/25 that came off some sort of 300zx. Im not sure if its the JDM one or the US one. But its a great turbo. the way I think of it, it should be a good quick spooling turbo. You know, full boost by 7-8k rpms. 750 ccs with 12-1 compression shoudl spool it up by then, because the 300z has 8.5-1 I think and each bank is 1.5 liters, which is double the size of the 750, but the 750 also has 30-40% higher compression, and revs WAY higher. 14k is the redline on the bike. The Z gets full boost by 3500-3800 RPMs, and I think Ill get it with this bike engine at no more than double those rpms. I dont know. I still haven't plotted this engine out on the compressor or turbine maps yet.
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Old 07-06-2006, 02:26 PM   #33
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I was just curious because someone told me that Harbor Freight only sells "pipe benders" not "tubing benders" which I guess use different dies. I still think I might buy one from them anyway after seeing what you were able to accomplish with it. This project is very cool.
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Old 07-06-2006, 02:35 PM   #34
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There are only maybe 4 peices of pipe that I bent with that bender on this car. The bends are ok, as long as the angle isn't too sharp. I would say 15 degrees is great.

The dies for this bender are off. the sizes on the dies are .25 off. I use the 1 inch die for the 1.25 tubing, and so on. It works perfectly though when I use the 1 inch die for this 1.25 inch tubing.
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Old 07-06-2006, 04:13 PM   #35
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gt12's are great on 600cc engines...a 750 could probably run a smaller A/R gt15...or a gt15v for some none existant lag
or a TD04-12t (twinscroll) from a S40...more air with minimal lag trade off
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Old 07-06-2006, 07:06 PM   #36
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What do you think about a t22/25? I know its much larger than a 15, (completely different frame), but I really would think that it would give you some good torque. I mean, if I can flow 8 psi by maybe 7000RPMS, that would come out to anywhere from 6 to 14 lbs/min of air.

Here is a t25 compressor chart for those of you who want to read along with my train of thought.



Here is my thinking process behind it all... Read on if you like things like this.

Stock 2003 GSXR 750s make about 120 whp. That means they are losing about 20-25hp through the running gear. At 7000RPMs they make about 55whp which would mean about 70hp at the crank. That is about 7 lbs/minute of air roughly. That means that if I can size a turbo, and make a good header design, that will allow a turbo to spool up to full boost befire 7000rpms, then I should be able to see well over 10 lbs/minute of air. That would come out to anywhere between 80 and 105 ft lbs of torque at the wheels at 7k RPMS!!! I know it seems really high, but with a gt12 at 8 psi they are making 200whp at peak power. (12,000rpms) Well, as I write this all down, I guess I am realizing that I dont think the engine is ever going to make more torque at 7k than it will at 12, because these bike motors have higher volumetric efficiency the higher they rev... Maybe I could expect to have a really flat torque curve from 7-8k all the way up to redline, which would be 80-90 ft lbs all the way to redline.... I just dont know how bike engines react to turbos, i dont know enough about them. What I want, is a turbo that is going to honestly spool up at 5k, or maybe even a bit more. I really am ok limiting power just alittle bit up top, if I can get a turbo to spool up really fast, and give me great power down low. Ill be keeping the RPMS low much more than I will be at 14krpms. Anywyas, I just thought I would type out some thoughts, so that I can read through them later, and also let others read through them. If anyone has any cool info, or has any experience that can help me out, it would be awesome to have you post. THanks

Also, here is a dyno chart of a gsxr 750 with a pipe. That will be about as much power as my engine will make. I dont think Ill even have a muffler at all.



Here is the link to that page. http://www.factorypro.com/products/v...locity_Stacks_
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Old 07-07-2006, 02:17 PM   #37
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Alright, I got the lower A arms built last night. They are going to have MUCH more stabilization on them, and maybe a dropped shock mount but I am not 100% sure yet. That I will figure out once the car is on the ground on its own rubber... anywyas, here is the camera pic I took.



I have some solid numbers on things like width and wheel base now that I have the front arms, and the rear diff mounts all figured out 100%.

Wheel base is going to be 114-115" That is about as long as a full sized 2 seater and many 4 seater sandrails. People say that about 112 inches is perfect for taking whoops and limits pitch when you plow through them.

Front Width is going to somewhat depend on my overall wheel offset, and width, but as long as i use tires that are about 7 inches wide, with about 3 inches of offset, the car should be 88 inches wide. I was planning on making the car 90-95 inches in the front, but a few things have come together in helping me decide that I dont want it to be that wide. For one, enclosed trailers are about 92 inches wide, so if you car is any wider, you have to pull your a arms in together to get into trailers... Two, My a arms are already 34 inches long from heim pivot to heim pivot. I am going to set the travel at 20 inches in the front. 20 inches is ALOT for a car this light! From what I read about suspension setups, this configuration will handle well, and will also be very strong. I know for now, there might not be anyone interested in these numbers, but since its a nice place to have my personal notes, and also because I know some day someone reading through here will wonder all about the details, I will list a few of the front suspension geometry.

Front A arm Rake 15* This allows the A arms to not have to cycle forward when hitting a bump. Much less stress on the suspension.
Front A arm length 34" from center to center of each heim joint.
Camber: -1* Degree at ride height
0* at full droop (extension)
-3* at full bump (compression)
Castor: This is going to be fully adjustable, as will the camber and most other things, but I think I am going to set it at about +5*.
Scrub Raduis: Scrub Radius is going to be set at about +1-1.5 inches. The lower the radius the easier the car is to steer. You don't want to set your car up with Negative scrub, because the car will tend to track along with every bump and channel your car hits. Then again, If you set scrub too high, then the car will be too hard to steer, but will also be stable at speed. You want a nice medium, and every car is different.
Toe: I will start with 0 Toe, but depending on how the car handles I might toe it out alittle. I want to be stable at speeds, but at the same time when I steer in, I would like the car to have a bit of oversteer, so that I can overthrottle the car if I want in the turns. The rear track is going to be a good 5-12 inches wider than the front, which is going to make the car pretty oversteer happy anyways, but that is exactly what I want, because the rear diff is limited slip, but its no live axle. I might need the assistance of a wider rear track, as well as some toe adjustments in the front. The rear will also be fully adjustable, camber, toe castor ect, so Ill be able to practice my Gran Turismo suspension tuning techniques, and see how the car reacts.
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Old 07-07-2006, 04:42 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jared nelson
What do you think about a t22/25?
yeah, I'm so use to thinking around a 19 and 20 mm restricted 600 that I haven't put much thought into the larger flow rates of the unrestricted 750...
I have a turbo sizing excel sheet that you might like...you will have to find your own maps or enter the data points accordingly for various turbos as it only has 4 of them...
let me know if you are interested...
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Old 07-07-2006, 05:09 PM   #39
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i am absolutely interested. if you were thinkign email, my email addy is geezer _ jay at hotmeial.

When are gt12s coming onto full boost on 600cc bikes?
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Old 07-10-2006, 03:24 AM   #40
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Okay, its been a few days since there was any new info. I got the front A arms all setup.

Also decided yesterday that I was sick of working on the floor so I made a table to work on.











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Old 07-11-2006, 03:04 AM   #41
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how did you go about designing that front suspension? ie what are some characteristics of the camber and caster curves and how do you design the points for them?
and what knuckles are those? ATV?
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Old 07-11-2006, 05:17 AM   #42
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YEs those are ATV knuckles. kawasaki kfx700 to be exact.

Let me go get some measurements. The numbers I posted above are somewhat different now because I have fully rebuilt the whole front setup.
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Old 07-11-2006, 05:48 AM   #43
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Okay, here is a diagram that might show alittle more than I can explain. I designed the whole front suspension setup on paper. It took me about 2 months to make my mind up on a specific design. The actual numbers are just off from this, by maybe up to .25 inches here and there because I had to adjust a thing here and there to get the camber/castor that I wanted.



Any questions that aren't designed by this post, let me know.

Camber at ride height is currently 0* (Ill likely set camber at -1* for driving)
camber at full compression -1*
camber at full extension +.5


BTW when I say full bump and full droop, the distance I am using to get those numbers is 20". The car will sit on about 1/3 of its travel, which means it will sit on about 6" of the 20 total inches. When I hit a bump, Ill have 14 inches of travel to soak those up, and 6 inches is how far the tire will drop when the car goes off jumps.

Castor is set right now at 4* and has no change from bump to droop. (not enough for me to be able to measure with my angle finder atleast.)

Basically by making the lower arms just longer than the upper arms there is very minimal change in camber from bump to droop, but there is just enough to give desirable handling traits. Basically, the mindset behind it is that if you have just a bit of camber increase (going towards a higher negative *) during compression, that will allow the outside tire to bite just a bit more in corners where the outside suspension is compressed in hard corners.
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Old 07-11-2006, 10:38 AM   #44
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We build Sand Cars too.
Only Using Northstars and LS1s in rear engine setups though.
Ive always wanted to do an STi 2.5l though. and put the smack down on the Northstars.

Thats a great looking project!!
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Old 07-11-2006, 11:34 AM   #45
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Thanks man. Yeah, I was back there (garage) measuring out the engine bay, and I would actually be able to shorten the wheel base if I used a mid engine setup from a WRX. Basically I would use the WRX trans, and lock the diff to only power the front axles, or rather to power both at all times. It would seriously kick some ass!!!! I fully plan on building one of those as soon as I am done making all my rookie mistakes on this one. Ill have a perfect design that I am 100% happy with. This car is being built from someone elses frame, so i have improved upon it, but overall its still got that ugly look.
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Old 07-12-2006, 01:25 AM   #46
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thanks for that most informative post!
fwiw I think it looks pretty mean.
oh yeah sorry if I missed it earlier but what are you shooting for as far as weight? 1000lbs?

Last edited by 970subaru; 07-12-2006 at 01:30 AM.
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Old 07-12-2006, 01:45 AM   #47
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1100 lbs. with stock power at about 141hp and 65ft lbs of torque, it will have the power to weight ratio of a 400hp civic or something. When I turbo it it will be MUCH higher torque, and probably 200hp.

Also, there are some pics of the rear of the car. I added a spoiler to mount my intercooler in. Those are like 2 weeks old, and it looks much better now. more pics to come later.

Here are fresh pics from tonight.





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Old 07-12-2006, 03:53 AM   #48
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looking good man! *subscribes* I'm interested in the turnout.
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Old 07-12-2006, 04:22 AM   #49
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looks awesome so far. i'm envious of your ability (not to mention availability of space and time) to just build what you want.
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Old 07-12-2006, 09:09 AM   #50
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you are making some quick progress with this build
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