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Old 06-26-2006, 02:25 PM   #1
Gfunk720
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Default Trouble hitting target boost- Stg2 04 WRX

Just installed my Up/Dp about a month ago and have a few questions about why I am not hitting target boost. Any help is appriciated....

1- Was hitting 14.8 at Stg1 93oct, added an STI UP and helix catted DP and now am only seeing a solid 14.0 on stg2 93 oct. It will peak up to high 14's but no where near what it is supposed to. Checked for boost leaks, doesnt seem to be the culprit

2- Could this be a wastegate issue? I havent tightened it yet, but will this increase max boost or just prevent it from dropping off? Even if it held 14.8, that doesnt really solve my problem

3- Should I bother trying the HWG duty map that cobb seems to highly caution? Again, may be the same issue as above...might hold boost, but still not hit target. Also, doesnt really seem like Cobb wants people to use the map unless its a last resort

4- Tried reflashing the stage2 basemap, car feels faster but less smooth till the ECU relearned. It again feels slower but smoother...even after a tank of 94oct. Didn't check boost difference, but I wouldnt be surprised to see it drop after the ECU learns

Overall, the car does feel quicker and boosts at lower RPMs. However, when reading live boost it is obvious there is a lot of room for improvement. Was thinking of doing some data logging as I currently am not running any guages. Anything you can contribute is appriciated

TIA
Gfunk
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Old 06-26-2006, 02:48 PM   #2
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Crank your wastegate arm down. If that doesn't help load the HWG map. I had to do both to achieve target boost in 3rd gear +.
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Old 06-26-2006, 04:10 PM   #3
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Your car could be one of the few that cannot hit target boost without a catback. I was only able to hit 14.8 with UP and DP. After I got a 3" catback the boost went up to almost 16.
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Old 06-26-2006, 04:20 PM   #4
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your WG arm needs some preload, they almost all do. Enjoy the difference!
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Old 06-26-2006, 05:44 PM   #5
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Thanks for the quick responses! I guess I have to tighten the WG arm. It just seemed strange to me that it would be holding 14.8 solid at Stage1 but only holding 14 at stage2. Could be a result of more air flow pushing harder on the wastegate...I remember there being a recommended tightening proceedure, guess I need to search first. IIRC, over tightening can cause over boosting, ya?

Sandwi54- I am running a catback, though it is not a full 3". The Bosal dual tip tapers where it mates to the DP, but I dont really think that it would cause this problem

Thanks again

If all else fails I will try the HWG map
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Old 06-26-2006, 06:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gfunk720
If all else fails I will try the HWG map
I would try loading the Real Time HWG map first, instead of playing with the wastegate arm. Thats what I did and we were hitting target boost in no time.

Make sure you are verifying boost with the Accesport's "Read Live Boost" feature.
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Old 06-26-2006, 07:21 PM   #7
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^^^

You should really try adjusting the act. arm to fix the problem rather then trying to push more boost into the motor to make up for an adjustment.....
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Old 06-27-2006, 12:41 AM   #8
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+4 ^^^^ tighten up the WG a couple of turns
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Old 06-27-2006, 01:05 PM   #9
Gfunk720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johsti
+4 ^^^^ tighten up the WG a couple of turns

Thanks guys, guess I should give it a couple turns and then re-check. I am skeptical about the HWG map, as it seems cobb says it should only be used as a last option.

I will post back with my results this weekend...damn work
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Old 06-27-2006, 02:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicX
^^^

You should really try adjusting the act. arm to fix the problem rather then trying to push more boost into the motor to make up for an adjustment.....
You aren't making any sense. If the HWG map works, with no spiking problems. Then why would I go adjusting mechanical things when it can be fixed with software? You are trying to put more boost in the engine by adjusting the wastegate arm, what is the difference?
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Old 06-27-2006, 06:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master2192
You aren't making any sense. If the HWG map works, with no spiking problems. Then why would I go adjusting mechanical things when it can be fixed with software? You are trying to put more boost in the engine by adjusting the wastegate arm, what is the difference?
The HWG map increases the wastegate duty cycle setting via the ecu, and cobb claims that it only is effective at high throttle position...atleast based on my research from the last two days

Honestly, It sounds safer to me to manually tighten the arm rather than having the ECU keep the WG closed. If your WGDC is higher, your ecu is working harder to keep the WG closed where as if you simply tighten the arm, the WG will operate under the same perameters and keep itself closed...It also may stay closed in certain positions where it would normally snap open

Since the arm is tuned for stock pressures it will not hold closed under higher boost pressure(in most cases). COBB even says "Use this map at your own risk" leading me to feel that manual tightening is the best option
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Old 06-27-2006, 06:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gfunk720
Since the arm is tuned for stock pressures it will not hold closed under higher boost pressure(in most cases). COBB even says "Use this map at your own risk" leading me to feel that manual tightening is the best option
Except tightening the arm has the same effect, and same dangers, as upping the wastegate arm spring tension. I guess to each their own, but since I am using the HWG map with no spiking and it works perfect (it hits and holds 15.8 psi exactly). I don't see a need to try to fix something that isn't broken.

Also note, that the warning by Cobb is mostly for people thinking that they can get higher than target boost by using the HWG map. There are no real dangers if you watch it and make sure it is working correctly before committing yourself to keep using that map. For us, we took 10 seconds to reflash the realtime map. Got back on the highway and tested it again and it worked like it was supposed to.
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Old 06-27-2006, 06:32 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master2192
Except tightening the arm has the same effect, and same dangers, as upping the wastegate arm spring tension. I guess to each their own, but since I am using the HWG map with no spiking and it works perfect (it hits and holds 15.8 psi exactly). I don't see a need to try to fix something that isn't broken.

Also note, that the warning by Cobb is mostly for people thinking that they can get higher than target boost by using the HWG map. There are no real dangers if you watch it and make sure it is working correctly before committing yourself to keep using that map. For us, we took 10 seconds to reflash the realtime map. Got back on the highway and tested it again and it worked like it was supposed to.
You shouldn't NEED the HWG map.
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Old 06-27-2006, 06:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richde
You shouldn't NEED the HWG map.
Exactly, which is probably why the wastegate arm is adjustable too. If you search, some people have done both things and posted their observations about the differences. It is NOT the same thing, as one is tension based and one seems to just be the ECU keeping the WG closed. Some people with knock links and that have data logged have had knock and high EGTS when using the HWG Map but run safely on the standard map w/ adj. arm.

Overtightening can be an issue, but I am certainly going to avoid that. I am basing this obviously on reading and not on personal experience, so I am not trying to discredit what you are saying. Have you done any data logging? It may very well have worked perfect for you, and may work for me too. I just want to leave that as a last option

Check this- http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...t=Cobb+HWG+Map
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Old 06-28-2006, 02:02 AM   #15
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I'm not sure if this has anything to do with making target boost, but I recommend checking your throttle cable. If there is any slack in it, take it out. You want it to be taunt. Too tight and your car will idle too high. You want it tight without putting load on the throttle. Mine had quite a bit of slack in it from the factory.

The combo of tightening the wastegate arm and adjustment of the throttle cable made a huge difference, and reaching target boost is now effortless, and much more responsive. It's worth checking out. Don't touch the cruise control.
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Old 06-28-2006, 11:02 AM   #16
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Seriously greg, get a boost gauge before messing with any of the stuff mentioned above. Either that or find a way to mount the AP so you can read it all the time.

Off the shelf maps can be risky b/c they arent meant for specific cars, thus you are having boost issues. When i adjusted my wg arm i had an egt and boost gauge for my vishnu ots map. Plus i have an 02, and they're obviously better .

Its fine if you dont want to listen to my advice, ill help you adjust your wg....and maybe blowup your car
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Old 06-28-2006, 11:24 AM   #17
Gfunk720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UM-WRXer
Seriously greg, get a boost gauge before messing with any of the stuff mentioned above. Either that or find a way to mount the AP so you can read it all the time.

Off the shelf maps can be risky b/c they arent meant for specific cars, thus you are having boost issues. When i adjusted my wg arm i had an egt and boost gauge for my vishnu ots map. Plus i have an 02, and they're obviously better .

Its fine if you dont want to listen to my advice, ill help you adjust your wg....and maybe blowup your car
Yeah....02's are so much better especially the transmission

From what I have read many cars have this issue with WG arm needing adjustment. I understand that spiking is not good, but I can definetely either watch my boost or have someone watch in the passanger seat. I know I need gauges, I just want to get them all at once...Once you come back I plan on using your laptop to datalog(next week?). I dont think it is as risky as you seem to think, but most of my understanding of the situation is based on others experience...

Cobb has even said that its not uncommon to have to tighten it. I would be more worried about running the HWG map than tightening the actuator.

If anyones car is going to blow up, yours would be first to go
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Old 06-28-2006, 11:47 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gfunk720

If anyones car is going to blow up, yours would be first to go
Yea i know, the other day i got some audible knock when i was late for a tee time. I was passing mutiple cars up a hill, 23psi + 7200rpm + high load = detonation !

My little ol ej205 and glass tranny can take it
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