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Old 07-02-2006, 09:18 AM   #1
Dave G
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Default Car-and-Driver (August 2006 issue) says '07 Legacy gets "telescoping steering wheel"

Car-and-Driver magazine, (August 2006 issue, page 38) has a short article on the 2007 Legacy. The last paragraph, states:

"Under the Legacy's skin, Subaru has added braces at the A-pillars to increase structural rigidity as well as new, stiffer bushings that quicken chasis response. Other minor changes include automatic climate control front and rear, memory seats, and a telescoping steering wheel."


There have been several media reviews posted here on nasioc of the 2007 Legacy or Legacy GT and Spec.B., but I don't recall any of them mentioning the telescoping steering. There was a post that showed a photo of the telescoping steering, but I think that was from Japan. Can anybody that has seen an '07 Legacy (USA version) confirm that it has a telescoping steering wheel?
And can you confirm that both seats have power and memory?, because the above words suggest to me that both front seats have memory, yet Subaru's website seems to suggest that only the driver's seat will have memory buttons. Whats the real story?
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Old 07-02-2006, 10:42 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G
Car-and-Driver magazine, (August 2006 issue, page 38) has a short article on the 2007 Legacy. The last paragraph, states:

"Under the Legacy's skin, Subaru has added braces at the A-pillars to increase structural rigidity as well as new, stiffer bushings that quicken chasis response. Other minor changes include automatic climate control front and rear, memory seats, and a telescoping steering wheel."


There have been several media reviews posted here on nasioc of the 2007 Legacy or Legacy GT and Spec.B., but I don't recall any of them mentioning the telescoping steering. There was a post that showed a photo of the telescoping steering, but I think that was from Japan. Can anybody that has seen an '07 Legacy (USA version) confirm that it has a telescoping steering wheel?
And can you confirm that both seats have power and memory?, because the above words suggest to me that both front seats have memory, yet Subaru's website seems to suggest that only the driver's seat will have memory buttons. Whats the real story?
They screwed up... they were driving the 2007 JDM Legacy.
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Old 07-02-2006, 09:25 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoDealer
They screwed up... they were driving the 2007 JDM Legacy.
figures telescopic steering column and adjustable peddles are the 2 things i'd be willing to retofit in my sti
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Old 07-02-2006, 11:58 PM   #4
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I'd settle for a tilt steering wheel.
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Old 07-03-2006, 01:44 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Diabolical1 CC
I'd settle for a tilt steering wheel.
?

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Old 07-03-2006, 09:36 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by kursplat
figures telescopic steering column...
He was making fun of this statement I think, though I'm not quite sure why because it's a completely accurate statement as the entire column moves not just the wheel.
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Old 07-03-2006, 11:38 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoDealer
They screwed up... they were driving the 2007 JDM Legacy.
Are you saying that the 2007 Legacy for the USA will not have telescoping steering?
If thats true, Subaru really has problems. If its true, then Subaru's marketing and product planning folks are really doing the wrong thing.

There is such an obvious need for telescoping steering. Almost all of Subaru's competitors have it, even in lower priced cars, not to mention the fact that many people need and/or want it.

In Car-and-Driver magazine, Aug'06, page 102, in their long-term test of an '05 Legacy GT, they state "we'd like Subaru to add a telescoping steering column."
Numerous other magazines have commented on this issue as well.

Even if the '07 Legacy does have telescoping steering in the USA market, what took Subaru so long? If they don't have it for the USA market, but they do have it for the Japanese market, the question is why?
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Old 07-03-2006, 11:46 PM   #8
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Bacause Americans all have similar sizes and Japanese are very different from each other, of course.

Krzys

PS I hope everybody noticed sarcasm ;-)
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Old 07-03-2006, 11:57 PM   #9
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Problem with the telescopic feature is that if the steering remains tilt column the telescoping feature will be useless for those of us that are tall enough to see over the top of an Outback.

If you want to see the benefits of a telescopic steering column and tilt wheel and pedals sit in a Jaguar. It is all powered right from a knob on the column and it all works great.
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Old 07-04-2006, 12:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G
Even if the '07 Legacy does have telescoping steering in the USA market, what took Subaru so long? If they don't have it for the USA market, but they do have it for the Japanese market, the question is why?
Reverse this sarcasm to get half the answer...
Quote:
Originally Posted by krzyss
Bacause Americans all have similar sizes and Japanese are very different from each other, of course.

Krzys

PS I hope everybody noticed sarcasm ;-)
and add "bean counters" for the other half...

You will see a telescoping wheels in the US soon... Other than the SVX ofcourse ;-)
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Old 07-04-2006, 10:21 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoDealer
You will see a telescoping wheels in the US soon... Other than the SVX ofcourse ;-)
What happened to Subaru's upscale move?
I thought Subaru planned to be a "premium" brand. What happened to that?
It looks like they're pushing prices into "premium" territory, but not feature content.
If Subaru's reliability and dealer service were top notch, that might justify the higher pricing, but take a look at the Legacy GT long term test article in Car-and-Driver magazine Aug'06 issue, starting on page 101. There were many problems with the car, and problems with the dealers who couldn't or wouldn't fix the problems (at least not the first time the car was brought in).

Even non-premium brand vehicles have telescoping steering.
Add to that, the Subaru Legacy is missing the following "premium" feature content:
-telescoping steering;
-sunshades (rear side window and rear window);
-parking assist, such as Parktronic, for both front and rear;
-rear camera (to be displayed on the Nav screen);
-Navigation should be available on all models (by the way, Nav isn't just for navigating a particular route, its very useful as a live moving map so that we can see street names, etc; The Nav screen is also needed because we need a place to display the rear camera's view);
-input jacks for video as well as audio (so we can view our video games, or movies, etc, while we wait in the car for our kids, friends, or spouses);
-MORE front seat legroom length (which is easily accomplished by allowing the front seats to move back farther, for those times when there is nobody in the back seat);
-front seats with cushion extensions (Subaru needs to realize many Americans are larger and taller than Asians; If Subaru doesn't want to make good seats standard, at least give us optional seating);
-better stereo/audio systems;

The way to get a "premium" status, is to offer more feature content for less money than the aspirational competitors. Thats how Lexus got where they are (in addition to better reliability and better dealer service). Now that Toyota is involved with Subaru, maybe Toyota can help rid Subaru of the dead-wood management that can't seem to get things right, and maybe Toyota can show Subaru the history of how Lexus did it. Subaru could learn from Honda' story, and even BMW's story, because in the 1960's and 1970's, neither of those brands were considered premium, nor did they have a reputation anything like what they have now, not to mention the volume of sales.

Last edited by Dave G; 07-04-2006 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 07-04-2006, 11:26 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G
What happened to Subaru's upscale move?
I thought Subaru planned to be a "premium" brand. What happened to that?
It looks like they're pushing prices into "premium" territory, but not feature content.
If Subaru's reliability and dealer service were top notch, that might justify the higher pricing, but take a look at the Legacy GT long term test article in Car-and-Driver magazine Aug'06 issue, starting on page 101. There were many problems with the car, and problems with the dealers who couldn't or wouldn't fix the problems (at least not the first time the car was brought in).

Even non-premium brand vehicles have telescoping steering.
Add to that, the Subaru Legacy is missing the following "premium" feature content:
-telescoping steering;
-sunshades (rear side window and rear window);
-parking assist, such as Parktronic, for both front and rear;
-rear camera (to be displayed on the Nav screen);
-Navigation should be available on all models (by the way, Nav isn't just for navigating a particular route, its very useful as a live moving map so that we can see street names, etc; The Nav screen is also needed because we need a place to display the rear camera's view);
-input jacks for video as well as audio (so we can view our video games, or movies, etc, while we wait in the car for our kids, friends, or spouses);
-MORE front seat legroom length (which is easily accomplished by allowing the front seats to move back farther, for those times when there is nobody in the back seat);
-front seats with cushion extensions (Subaru needs to realize many Americans are larger and taller than Asians; If Subaru doesn't want to make good seats standard, at least give us optional seating);
-better stereo/audio systems;

The way to get a "premium" status, is to offer more feature content for less money than the aspirational competitors. Thats how Lexus got where they are (in addition to better reliability and better dealer service). Now that Toyota is involved with Subaru, maybe Toyota can help rid Subaru of the dead-wood management that can't seem to get things right, and maybe Toyota can show Subaru the history of how Lexus did it. Subaru could learn from Honda' story, and even BMW's story, because in the 1960's and 1970's, neither of those brands were considered premium, nor did they have a reputation anything like what they have now, not to mention the volume of sales.
cool your heels dave... the Legacy is on its first generation of a new type of vehicle. The C&D article was just one article... Automobile had a glowing long term test of the vehicle... which is one reason why it's their #1 family sedan.

Premium does not mean luxury...Subaru is not out to be another Lexus by any means... and when was the last time you've heard subaru use the word premium? And as for rising prices... have you checked out the pricing on the 2007 Forester and Tribeca? Their prices have gone down significantly. They are many things for the price that Subaru offers that competitors don't match... including BMW.

Yes Subaru has long lead times for implementing creature comfort technologies. however, they take an active roll in many other technologies. I'd much rather FHI to have revised the safety aspects of the Legacy and Impreza first than to have offered me memory seats first. The CEO of Honda spoke out against Nissan recently by saying they are doing nothing more than offering "premium tech" such as Bose sounds systems and not doing anything in the way of R&D to create new technologies to advance its brands. FHI is a tiny company in comparison to almost all automotive manufacturers.

It's easy to have all of the answers when you're just an observer. Subaru has made a quantum leap in the past couple of years. The future shows another leap on the horizon. Either wait it out or call 1800Subaru3 and let SOA know how you feel.
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Old 07-04-2006, 11:38 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G
What happened to Subaru's upscale move?
I thought Subaru planned to be a "premium" brand. What happened to that?
It looks like they're pushing prices into "premium" territory, but not feature content.
If Subaru's reliability and dealer service were top notch, that might justify the higher pricing, but take a look at the Legacy GT long term test article in Car-and-Driver magazine Aug'06 issue, starting on page 101. There were many problems with the car, and problems with the dealers who couldn't or wouldn't fix the problems (at least not the first time the car was brought in).

Even non-premium brand vehicles have telescoping steering.
Add to that, the Subaru Legacy is missing the following "premium" feature content:
-telescoping steering;
-sunshades (rear side window and rear window);
-parking assist, such as Parktronic, for both front and rear;
-rear camera (to be displayed on the Nav screen);
-Navigation should be available on all models (by the way, Nav isn't just for navigating a particular route, its very useful as a live moving map so that we can see street names, etc; The Nav screen is also needed because we need a place to display the rear camera's view);
-input jacks for video as well as audio (so we can view our video games, or movies, etc, while we wait in the car for our kids, friends, or spouses);
-MORE front seat legroom length (which is easily accomplished by allowing the front seats to move back farther, for those times when there is nobody in the back seat);
-front seats with cushion extensions (Subaru needs to realize many Americans are larger and taller than Asians; If Subaru doesn't want to make good seats standard, at least give us optional seating);
-better stereo/audio systems;

The way to get a "premium" status, is to offer more feature content for less money than the aspirational competitors. Thats how Lexus got where they are (in addition to better reliability and better dealer service). Now that Toyota is involved with Subaru, maybe Toyota can help rid Subaru of the dead-wood management that can't seem to get things right, and maybe Toyota can show Subaru the history of how Lexus did it. Subaru could learn from Honda' story, and even BMW's story, because in the 1960's and 1970's, neither of those brands were considered premium, nor did they have a reputation anything like what they have now, not to mention the volume of sales.
Hey Dave! Long time, no see... How's life treating you?

As to the telescopic steering wheel: The JDM Legacy/Outback just got that feature for their facelifted '07 models. Hopefully we will see it here for '08.

Bob
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Old 07-05-2006, 02:29 AM   #14
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Current subaru cars are still very japanese size. The telescopic steering wheel is a big issue because u do not get a lot of legroom in legacy. By the time ur llegs are in comfortable position, your arms are too far from the steering wheel. But, I think subaru is listening to US consumers. That is why they adding telescopic steering wheels on the future models.
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Old 07-05-2006, 02:47 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G
What happened to Subaru's upscale move?
I thought Subaru planned to be a "premium" brand. What happened to that?
It looks like they're pushing prices into "premium" territory, but not feature content.

DUDE.... slow the hell down! Have you even seen the B9 Tribeca, or have you been on another planet for the last year or so? This vehicle outfeatures, outstyles, and yes outperforms the "upscale" competition in its class such as the BMW X5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G
Add to that, the Subaru Legacy is missing the following "premium" feature content:
-parking assist, such as Parktronic, for both front and rear;
-rear camera (to be displayed on the Nav screen);
-Navigation should be available on all models (by the way, Nav isn't just for navigating a particular route, its very useful as a live moving map so that we can see street names, etc; The Nav screen is also needed because we need a place to display the rear camera's view);
-input jacks for video as well as audio (so we can view our video games, or movies, etc, while we wait in the car for our kids, friends, or spouses);
-MORE front seat legroom length (which is easily accomplished by allowing the front seats to move back farther, for those times when there is nobody in the back seat);
-better stereo/audio systems;

The way to get a "premium" status, is to offer more feature content for less money than the aspirational competitors.
The Nav system on the current '06 already does all the functionaility that you mention. Why it is not on all models yet IS a bit of a mystery to me too however. Rear cam is now standard on the '07 with Nav systems.

The input jacks are on the rear DVD player. I use mine for my Ipod. The '07 also has an aux input STANDARD in the center console (marketed as an MP3 Player input).

Parking assist, you mean rear sensors? The '07 has it now, but it can be added to the '06 as well.

As for legroom (and headroom for that matter) I'm 6' 5" and 280 Pounds and the Tribeca is the first Subaru I fit in perfectly. The second row has plenty of room as it is adjustable where it can be slid fore and aft to desired position. My kids seat is now about 8 inches further from my seatback than it was in ,my '03 LL Bean Outback unless we are hauling additional friends/kids in the third row where we adjust the second row further forward to give the third row some room. I really can't think of ANY other SUV that has this same feature for amazing fleixbility. This to me shows good forward thinking on Subaru's part.

I must say the sound system is great. I commute to work blasting very loud and heavy punk/hardcore/metalcore/death metal music and the sound stays thick and heavy as it is expected. Hell, my old Outbacks did fine in this category as well though the Tribeca is further refined.

Long story short, the Tribeca is undeniably one of the best vehicles on the road at the moment as long as you equip it so. You DO however make some decent points here and there. For instance, I do agree with you a lot more of this should be STANDARD, but some of your comments just seemed way off the mark to me.
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Old 07-05-2006, 02:58 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by HB_Dad
DUDE.... slow the hell down! Have you even seen the B9 Tribeca, or have you been on another planet for the last year or so? This vehicle outfeatures, outstyles, and yes outperforms the "upscale" competition in its class such as the BMW X5.



The Nav system on the current '06 already does all the functionaility that you mention. Why it is not on all models yet IS a bit of a mystery to me too however. Rear cam is now standard on the '07 with Nav systems.

The input jacks are on the rear DVD player. I use mine for my Ipod. The '07 also has an aux input STANDARD in the center console (marketed as an MP3 Player input).

Parking assist, you mean rear sensors? The '07 has it now, but it can be added to the '06 as well.

As for legroom (and headroom for that matter) I'm 6' 5" and 280 Pounds and the Tribeca is the first Subaru I fit in perfectly. The second row has plenty of room as it is adjustable where it can be slid fore and aft to desired position. My kids seat is now about 8 inches further from my seatback than it was in ,my '03 LL Bean Outback unless we are hauling additional friends/kids in the third row where we adjust the second row further forward to give the third row some room. I really can't think of ANY other SUV that has this same feature for amazing fleixbility. This to me shows good forward thinking on Subaru's part.

I must say the sound system is great. I commute to work blasting very loud and heavy punk/hardcore/metalcore/death metal music and the sound stays thick and heavy as it is expected. Hell, my old Outbacks did fine in this category as well though the Tribeca is further refined.

Long story short, the Tribeca is undeniably one of the best vehicles on the road at the moment as long as you equip it so. You DO however make some decent points here and there. For instance, I do agree with you a lot more of this should be STANDARD, but some of your comments just seemed way off the mark to me.
He's talking about the Legacy and you're talking abouth e Tribeca. I think most of the things he wants are silly, but what do I know.
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Old 07-05-2006, 03:15 AM   #17
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It sounds like HB_Dad has never set foot in a Tribeca. They are tiny inside. After getting comfortable in the front seat, still stooping from the low roof and the I can't see out A split pillar blind spot. I couldn't even get my legs in the middle row seat, it being all the way back to the zero rear legroom point. It is tiny inside the Tribeca.

Now for features you need to look at a premium car to see what premium features are. Subaru's do not have premium features. They barely have minivan features.

Yes I'm 6'5" yes I weight 260+ Yes I have sat in the tiny Tribeca. Yes it is prettier on the inside. No you can't see out.

It is like the Aztek, only uglier.
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Old 07-05-2006, 03:28 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Diabolical1 CC
It sounds like HB_Dad has never set foot in a Tribeca. They are tiny inside. After getting comfortable in the front seat, still stooping from the low roof and the I can't see out A split pillar blind spot. I couldn't even get my legs in the middle row seat, it being all the way back to the zero rear legroom point. It is tiny inside the Tribeca.

Now for features you need to look at a premium car to see what premium features are. Subaru's do not have premium features. They barely have minivan features.

Yes I'm 6'5" yes I weight 260+ Yes I have sat in the tiny Tribeca. Yes it is prettier on the inside. No you can't see out.

It is like the Aztek, only uglier.
yeah he drives an 06 Tribeca, you can't please everybody. Maybe a Subaru isn't the car for you.

LOL and the avg male height in the US is 5'9".

Last edited by silentbob343; 07-05-2006 at 03:35 AM.
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Old 07-05-2006, 04:15 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by silentbob343
yeah he drives an 06 Tribeca, you can't please everybody. Maybe a Subaru isn't the car for you.

LOL and the avg male height in the US is 5'9".

It's ok I'm trying to figure out which Jaguar to buy myself. It will either be the Fast 98 XJR or maybe the 03 XJR if I can swing the payments. Or it might be a Vanden Plas there is a nice 00 I've also been considering. The 98 might have a Nikasil problem. The 03 is a bit pricey and the 00 VDP is a bit slow, well compared to the XJR rockets. Funny thing is that even the 03 XJR is cheaper by $10,000 than any comparable but slower, less comfortable and smaller Subaru.
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Old 07-05-2006, 04:48 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Diabolical1 CC
It's ok I'm trying to figure out which Jaguar to buy myself. It will either be the Fast 98 XJR or maybe the 03 XJR if I can swing the payments. Or it might be a Vanden Plas there is a nice 00 I've also been considering. The 98 might have a Nikasil problem. The 03 is a bit pricey and the 00 VDP is a bit slow, well compared to the XJR rockets. Funny thing is that even the 03 XJR is cheaper by $10,000 than any comparable but slower, less comfortable and smaller Subaru.
well, have fun with what ever you decide to get. The KBB for an 03 XJR with 51K is $40,000 so how is that $10,00 less than the slower Subaru?
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Old 07-05-2006, 05:42 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by silentbob343
well, have fun with what ever you decide to get. The KBB for an 03 XJR with 51K is $40,000 so how is that $10,00 less than the slower Subaru?
D1CC evidently lives in a fantasy world where Subaru should be condemned for producing a car that's more expensive than a 30 year old Aston Martin, the Mercury Marauder is the pinnacle of automotive design, and the Tribeca is "tiny".
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Old 07-05-2006, 09:36 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by phoenix96
D1CC evidently lives in a fantasy world where Subaru should be condemned for producing a car that's more expensive than a 30 year old Aston Martin, the Mercury Marauder is the pinnacle of automotive design, and the Tribeca is "tiny".
haha!
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Old 07-05-2006, 10:52 AM   #23
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Well,

Tribeca, when equipped with 3 row seating, is not that big inside. It cannot compete with minivans. Access to the rear bench was only from passenger side, why?
It is bigger than Legacy/Outback Wagon but not really big enough for 3 row seating.

Krzys
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Old 07-05-2006, 11:16 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silentbob343
He's talking about the Legacy and you're talking abouth e Tribeca.
He specificially mentions lack of Nav on ALL vehicles so therefore he opened himself up to the entire product line discussion when he knocks Subaru and its recent more premium leanings...

Quote:
Originally Posted by krzyss
Well,

Access to the rear bench was only from passenger side, why?

Krzys
Now THIS is a legitimate question. I don't know why they did that...
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Old 07-05-2006, 11:27 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krzyss
Well,

Tribeca, when equipped with 3 row seating, is not that big inside. It cannot compete with minivans. Access to the rear bench was only from passenger side, why?
It is bigger than Legacy/Outback Wagon but not really big enough for 3 row seating.

Krzys
None of the crossovers can compete with a minivan. There are 3 segments for 6+ seating... crossovers, minivans, and full sized SUVs. They all have their own benefits and shortcomings. I'm sure minivans would suit a lot of people's needs... however... I personally would never be caught dead driving a minivan... sorry

You can access the 3rd row from either side... better ingress and egress is found on the passenger side. Why? so kids aren't getting in and out on the traffic side.
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