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Old 06-03-2006, 01:46 AM   #1
thejean
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Default Anti Lag with AP?

Can you program the AP for anti-lag with the Sreet Tuner software? How appropriate is this EMS combo for a rally car? I already have an AP, Stg 2 and getting a PDX Dyno protune in July, which I plan to get tuned for throttle response, quick spool-up and low end TQ. JC
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Old 06-03-2006, 01:53 AM   #2
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the size of your turbo will remain the same, no matter the tuning you do.
You could probably squeese a few RPMs out of it, but afterall it is still same size turbine.

EDIT:
Your stock turbo is really not that laggy.
Honestly.
I am not lying.
I promise.
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Old 06-03-2006, 02:00 AM   #3
thejean
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I realize that but for rallycross it is a bit laggy off-boost in say second gear. Mind you, I'm comparing my Stg 2 to an '06 stg 2. Just curious if the functionality is there in the AP. Anti-lag will help a bit with any rally car I think. Can achieve a similar effect with left foot braking I realize but still, you can get caught out in tight stuff.
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Old 06-04-2006, 01:04 AM   #4
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You do realize with anti lag though you'd be buying turbos every 10 minutes or so right? Anti lag kicks butt if you have the WRC parts truck following you around, but when you are on your own, buying new TD04L-13T turbos twice a week will get real old and real expensive real quick.
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Old 06-04-2006, 01:23 AM   #5
thejean
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Good point but I would only use it during rallies, no other time. Have different realtime maps for more open stages (no anti-lag) and different ones for tight stages (with anti-lag). 15 seconds or so to change between maps to save the turbo... would be a pretty good setup I think. After all, once the car is a dedicated rally car, I'd have 10 different map slots for 10 different rally scenarios. With the street tuner software, programming different maps with and without anti-lag would be easy. Again, it all depends if the AP has this functionality or not, which noone seems to know.
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Old 06-04-2006, 01:37 AM   #6
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As far as I know you need another EM for anti lag. I dont know of anyone using AP or ST so I dont think it has this capability. I hear the stock ECU can support ALS but I don't actually know of anyone that has it set up.

Also all the rally cars that I work on which use antilag use race gas, 103 or 109. We use Autronic, GEMS, Link Plus etc etc for anit lag setups. As Unabobmer says it's pretty hard on your car, but I know of lots of people who use it on daily drivers too (back in the UK) as long as you can switch it on and off you're ok. I've seen VF30's and VF37 twin scroll setups last a whole rally season on pretty harsh antilag setups, but rally cars get serviced lots too........

Lots depends on what u are doing too, if you are competing then you need to be in the proper class with the correct mods. If you're getting into stage rallying then PM me and we can chat offline.
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Old 06-04-2006, 01:55 AM   #7
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lol.. your turbo is NOT laggy... seriously... for real.

ever driven a gt45R powered Supra?
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Old 06-04-2006, 01:56 AM   #8
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I think the feasibility/reliability of ALS and its debated adverse effects should be left to those who have actual experience with them. I see too much of one side saying it will destroy x part and another side saying it is not that extreme. There are different setups to ALS and some mild and some wild. There are some reported users that don't go through turbos on a redundant basis. You can search around for a thread regarding ALS and even some of the more experienced UK users @ scoobynet.

-paK +3
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Old 06-04-2006, 02:09 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckanderson
ever driven a gt45R powered Supra?
No and probably never will.

I realize the stock WRX turbo is not VERY laggy, but it does have some turbo lag, especially when compared to the off-boost throttle response in the new 06's, or any 2.5 for that matter. In rallying, every second counts and anti-lag can be a help when you get caught out. Many guys running in production classes use anti-lag... I'm not considering anything unprecedented here... just wondering if it can also be done with an AP. In daily driving, the stock setup is fine as it is for sure.

Interesting to know that the stock ECU has the ability though. Means that there is potential to program this through the AP. I'll check with Cobb...
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Old 06-04-2006, 04:05 AM   #10
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sorry.. i just think its funny.. my STi and my friends 05 wrx's have almost zero lag... expecialy with a downpipe...after owning supra's before the STi, i would almost prefer a laggy'r turbo.. it makes for much easier throtle modulation.. i have some trouble in bumpy corners with the super fast turbo response
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Old 06-04-2006, 07:44 PM   #11
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I know this is going a different direction, but have you considered a small nitrous shot just to push you into boost in these rare occasions when you absolutely need to get there?
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Old 06-04-2006, 07:45 PM   #12
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Nitrous on a rally car... not sure I've ever heard of anyone doing that. Could be a safety issue.
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Old 06-04-2006, 07:58 PM   #13
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It would be more cost effective in the long run to swap in a 2.5 block for better low end, than trying to run an anti-lag system.
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Old 06-04-2006, 07:59 PM   #14
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Agreed but that pushes you out of production class and into open class.
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Old 06-04-2006, 08:20 PM   #15
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How about water/alky injection? Not sure how it affects low-end though, but I think you can run way more timing and not ping with alky, or is that only on boost?
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Old 06-04-2006, 09:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejean
Agreed but that pushes you out of production class and into open class.
What about a 6-speed swap? This would eliminate the big drop between 1st and 2nd in the 5-speed and give you lower gear ratios for added torque multiplication. You would spend more time in the meat of the powerband.
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Old 06-04-2006, 10:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tea cups
What about a 6-speed swap? This would eliminate the big drop between 1st and 2nd in the 5-speed and give you lower gear ratios for added torque multiplication. You would spend more time in the meat of the powerband.
Same, pushes you into open class where money dictates who does well and who doesn't.

You could just buy an 06 WRX or 04+ STi but the problem with this is that caliper modifications are not allowed in Production classes, and the 4-pots and brembos won't fit under the 15" gravel wheels used in rally. And good luck finding and affording 16" or 17" gravel tires. Don't even know if they make them.

So alas, I am back at the 02-05 WRX with anti-lag.
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Old 06-04-2006, 10:23 PM   #18
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anti lag will also put you into open class.
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Old 06-04-2006, 11:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gethin
anti lag will also put you into open class.
Oh. ***shuts up***
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Old 06-13-2006, 05:32 PM   #20
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what about timing changes with the AP?
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Old 06-13-2006, 05:46 PM   #21
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An AP certainly does change timing. Can you be a bit more specific?
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Old 06-13-2006, 05:49 PM   #22
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can't you change timing to increase your low end and accomplish the same thing as reducing lag? forgive me if I am off-base. I am still trying to learn as much as possible and heard something about this in another forum I think.
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Old 06-13-2006, 06:08 PM   #23
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you can, but only to a point.

what anti-lag does is keep your turbo spinning (or boosting) so when you want the power, the boost is already there.
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Old 06-13-2006, 07:02 PM   #24
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the AP cannot be programmed for anti-lag. An aftermarket system would be required for this, i believe the only EMS's that can do anti-lag are standalones.

and turbo's don't die within days from an ALS. From how i understand it, thrust bearing turbos tend to fare much better with ALS than true ball bearing turbos (don't ask me why though).
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Old 06-16-2006, 02:06 AM   #25
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GEMS and Link are piggybacks, which have these features and more (they can use MAF or MAP too! )

Also I believe in Canada u can actually run ALS in production class.....as a piggyback only, just to correct my above statement, you have to have the stock ECU in there too.
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