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Old 07-10-2006, 03:55 AM   #1
TheKryptKeeper
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Default Using the handbrake?

I just got back from seeing The Fast and the Furious: Tokyo Drift. In the movie the main character drives an EVO. He hits the handbrake all the time. Now before you all go crazy, I know that the car has been converted to RWD for better drifts, but that's not my question.

My question is this: Will hitting the handbrake while an AWD is moving do more damage then it would in a FWD or RWD? Or would the center diff just disconnect the rear from the front?
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Old 07-10-2006, 05:26 AM   #2
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I know in the STi it disconnects the center diff to prevent damage, but I don't know about other AWD cars
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Old 07-10-2006, 07:54 AM   #3
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^ Correct. I'm fairly certain then that every other Soob AWD vehicle wouldn't disconnect it if the WRX doesn't but the STi does. If it's done for performance that would only make sense. I'm curious though to hear of any other Soobs that do this...bump.
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Old 07-10-2006, 08:37 AM   #4
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This should be good....

EDIT: OP you do that in the car you have now and your rear diff will hate you for it and commit suicide.
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Old 07-10-2006, 08:42 AM   #5
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WRC cars, Grp.N. and STi's (and STI's) will disconnect the center diff when the handbrake is pulled. Other Subaru's will not. On very, very slippery surfaces (eg. ice) you can get away with a quick jab at slow speed to get he car to rotate, but on any sort of grippy surface you run the risk of major failure of your center diff.
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Old 07-10-2006, 08:45 AM   #6
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There is debate as to whether the '06 STI with it's new mechanical center diff can actually fully disengage. The '04 and '05 use a planetary center diff that acted like an open diff with the handbrake engaged.
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Old 07-10-2006, 09:32 AM   #7
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pulling the handbrake is bad, and useless
all it does is cause understeer & scrub off speed

learn to DRIVE the car - - not abuse it.

Jamie
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Old 07-10-2006, 09:39 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subie Gal
pulling the handbrake is bad, and useless
all it does is cause understeer & scrub off speed

learn to DRIVE the car - - not abuse it.

Jamie

interesting...seems like locking the rear tires in a turn would cause the rear of the car to rotate = oversteer....
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Old 07-10-2006, 09:44 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subie Gal
pulling the handbrake is bad, and useless
all it does is cause understeer & scrub off speed

learn to DRIVE the car - - not abuse it.

Jamie

That's bloody nonsence.
Otherwise, every rally driver since time began knows less that you do, which I doubt somehow.

In certain instances, e-brakeing an sti is not only faster, but more fun.

Why do you think subaru spent so much time adding this feature (diff disengage) - because the Gpn drivers had been begging for it for years............

Last edited by fastfreddy; 07-10-2006 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 07-10-2006, 10:02 AM   #10
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fastfreddy, I have seen Jamie drive. She is fast. Every time drifting and over steer comes up, people who watch but don't do, think they know better than those who actually do. In other words, until you have timed your self around a course of any type, don't tell every one that over steer is the fast way to drive. Neutral turning, no matter the surface, is the fast way around a corner. Over steer is used to slow a car down.
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Old 07-10-2006, 10:04 AM   #11
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Remember when Paul Walker yanked the ebrake in the green EVO at 100mph on the interstate and drove backwards? Yeah do it just like that.
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Old 07-10-2006, 10:09 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfreddy
That's bloody nonsence.
Otherwise, every rally driver since time began knows less that you do, which I doubt somehow.

In certain instances, e-brakeing an sti is not only faster, but more fun.

Why do you think subaru spent so much time adding this feature (diff disengage) - because the Gpn drivers had been begging for it for years............
You know that Jamie is a winning rally driver, right?

Zach
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Old 07-10-2006, 10:09 AM   #13
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So why do they put big ass handbreak leavers / Hydrulic handbrakes in all rally cars.
I've been around rally cars since I was 2 years old.

You do an SS in a rally with out your hand brake cable attached, and you're times will suffer - she mentioned that any use of the handbrake in a car is bad.
This is flat out wrong.

I assume that she has an alternative way around tight asphalt hairpins that nobody has yet discovered.

Every rally driver in history uses this method.
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Old 07-10-2006, 11:12 AM   #14
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Ya. I have to admit sometimes Subie gals comments suprise me. She's proven herself as a great rally driver and yet she says the handbrake causes understeer. Just watching in-car video from any winter rally and it will show you that's not true. It's clear the handbrake causes massive oversteer as long as the car has started its rotation. I've used this method myself on a couple of occasions to get the car OUT of an understeer situation on icy roads.
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Old 07-10-2006, 11:22 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardM
. . . . Neutral turning, no matter the surface, is the fast way around a corner. Over steer is used to slow a car down.
Have you even been you an ice race? They often have the cars completely rotated and going backwards before the corner.


Neutral is usually fastest on dry tarmac. Oversteer is usually fastest on ice (for an AWD at least). On intermediate surfaces (snow, gravel, wet tarmac) it depends on the situation.

Last edited by Howl; 07-10-2006 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 07-10-2006, 11:25 AM   #16
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E brake use on Rally stages = useful only on VERY tight hairpin corners taken at high speeds.

E Brake use on the street = super duper mad crazy drifto style points!
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Old 07-10-2006, 11:47 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subie Gal
pulling the handbrake is bad, and useless
all it does is cause understeer & scrub off speed

learn to DRIVE the car - - not abuse it.

Jamie
lol using handbrake is part of driving not abuse
i know you are a popuplar user here but still stay with the topic
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Old 07-10-2006, 12:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfreddy
That's bloody nonsence.
Otherwise, every rally driver since time began knows less that you do, which I doubt somehow.
I believe the point is that in a WRC car, the center differential disengages when the handbrake is pulled. In a WRX, it does not. Since it does not, yanking the hand brake puts a braking force on all 4 tires...

I agree with the comment that one should learn to drive the car, not abuse it.
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Old 07-10-2006, 12:22 PM   #19
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The OP is asking about yanking the e-brake on a standard use AWD subaru...not a hajillion $$$ state of the art rally car. In that context....the answer is "its very very not good"
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Old 07-10-2006, 12:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley
I believe the point is that in a WRC car, the center differential disengages when the handbrake is pulled. In a WRX, it does not. Since it does not, yanking the hand brake puts a braking force on all 4 tires...

I agree with the comment that one should learn to drive the car, not abuse it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaisersouse
The OP is asking about yanking the e-brake on a standard use AWD subaru...not a hajillion $$$ state of the art rally car. In that context....the answer is "its very very not good"

Well folks, as has been stated a billion times on this forum, the STI disengages drive to the rear once the e-brake is pulled - for the same reasons that the same thing happens on the WRC car.

So you can do it within reason all day in your STI - there is even a nice section about it in the user manual.

The reason this is there is because the system was designed for gp n rallying when there are times you need to e-brake the car.

Granted the wrx does not have this feature, so if you want to play Colin McRae, get yourself an STI or risk damage to you r car.
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Old 07-10-2006, 12:30 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley
I believe the point is that in a WRC car, the center differential disengages when the handbrake is pulled. In a WRX, it does not. Since it does not, yanking the hand brake puts a braking force on all 4 tires...

I agree with the comment that one should learn to drive the car, not abuse it.
Thats fine, but I assure you, pulling the e-brake with any lateral acceleration already in progress (i.e. mid turn) will induce oversteer. the brake force applied to the front wheels in that situation is not in equal to that of the rears.

And there are plenty of professional drivers in non-STi USDM WRX's who utilize the hand-brake in certain situations...
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Old 07-10-2006, 12:34 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfreddy
Well folks, as has been stated a billion times on this forum, the STI disengages drive to the rear once the e-brake is pulled - for the same reasons that the same thing happens on the WRC car.

So you can do it within reason all day in your STI - there is even a nice section about it in the user manual.

The reason this is there is because the system was designed for gp n rallying when there are times you need to e-brake the car.

Granted the wrx does not have this feature, so if you want to play Colin McRae, get yourself an STI or risk damage to you r car.
That being said...he didnt specify STi and looking at the car in his profile he doesn't own an STi.

However I didnt know the STi did that. Is that a function of the Diffs/DCCD setup or is it a TCU/ECU thing? COULD one drop an STi drivetrain into a non STi Impreza and acheive the same results?
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Old 07-10-2006, 12:38 PM   #23
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non-regular use the the handbrake in a non-STi isn't going to destroy a diff like everyone is making it out to.

Its definately hard on it, and with constant use, will wear it out....but you guys are making it seem like a few rear lockups and ...BAMMM...out it blows...

Lets be realistic.
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Old 07-10-2006, 12:45 PM   #24
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lol..i pull the e-brake up only when it rains and i drive a regular rex..its fun..nothing broken yet lol..also did i say i live in the city..haha..just got to make sure theres no other cars around
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Old 07-10-2006, 12:58 PM   #25
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One last time here guys...the WRX DOES NOT have an ebrake lockout. 04 and 05 Sti's DO. Not sure about the 06 as SuperMarkus said. It's unknown exactly how much abuse the center diff on a regular WRX before letting go, but be assured, YOU CAN EFF IT UP IN SHORT ORDER. Ask me how I know. So those of you that don't have first hand experience with this and/or think you know what you're talking about, stop injecting your opinion. You're doing a disservice to the people who are truly ignorant and want to learn how best to handle these cars. If you want to learn to slide your car ON THE RIGHT SURFACES AND THE RIGHT PLACES, run a search on "Scandinavian flick". Even this, as all extreme driving maneuvers will, can cause damage to various components of the car. Be prepared to pay if you want to drive this way.

jcblues, save your money. A center diff replacement and tranny rebuild is in your future...
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