Nitrous Questions and Answers...

Ultimate Collision Center · 07-28-2006, 06:48 PM

I want to keep this running for anyone interested in the 'squeeze'. Just like many were afraid to run methanol for a while and now its becoming popular, nitrous should be right there with methanol. I personally run both and love both equally. If anyone has any questions or concerns please let me know...

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BoxerSpirt · 08-01-2006, 12:51 AM

I have a 2.0 with 80,000 miles, stock boost and stock EM. Is it possible to run spray from this point? Safe setups? Positives/negatives? Wey kit/dry kit?

thanks for your help.

Ultimate Collision Center · 08-01-2006, 01:11 AM

You are up there in miles but certainly not beyond the point of using nitrous. I wouldn't suggest using anything bigger than a 50 shot though (normally the biggest shot I recommend unless you are getting the car tuned for nitrous and understand the possible consequences of it). I would suggest using a wet shot and start with a 35 shot and go from there. A 35 shot won't feel like a huge difference but its definitely a nice power gain and is very safe to run. I would only run a wet shot unless for some reason you were setting up the car for nitrous only and then there are some advantages to using a dry shot. The thing people have to remember is that you make power from the added fuel not the added air, the added air only allows you to burn more fuel...

DragonSlayer · 08-12-2006, 04:21 PM

So, with a 35-wet-shot, would I need to go with a larger fuel pump??

wrxdrvr · 08-12-2006, 04:34 PM

What about something like a Venom nitrous system where you can change the amount of nitrous by the TPS... 10% of a 35 shot at 10% TP, 20% of a 35 shot at 20% TP, 30% of a 35 shot at 30% TP, etc.....I would be interested in a system like that.

hippy · 08-12-2006, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULTIMATE CC

.........The thing people have to remember is that you make power from the added fuel not the added air, the added air only allows you to burn more fuel...

But since our cars are usually tuned to run so rich, the fuel needed for more power is already there. If we had enough octane, we could possibly run a 35 shot pretty safely and gain power without adding fuel because there might be enough fuel there in the first place.

Running n2o at less then full throttle defeats the purpose of n2o. I mean, you're cutting off the flow of air with the throttle body, and then adding it back with n2o. This imo makes no sense.

peace

Ultimate Collision Center · 08-12-2006, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonSlayer

So, with a 35-wet-shot, would I need to go with a larger fuel pump??

stock fuel pump for 35 shot as long as you are near stock will be fine...

Ultimate Collision Center · 08-12-2006, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrxdrvr

What about something like a Venom nitrous system where you can change the amount of nitrous by the TPS... 10% of a 35 shot at 10% TP, 20% of a 35 shot at 20% TP, 30% of a 35 shot at 30% TP, etc.....I would be interested in a system like that.

They work great but are very expensive usually...

Ultimate Collision Center · 08-12-2006, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hippy

But since our cars are usually tuned to run so rich, the fuel needed for more power is already there. If we had enough octane, we could possibly run a 35 shot pretty safely and gain power without adding fuel because there might be enough fuel there in the first place.

Running n2o at less then full throttle defeats the purpose of n2o. I mean, you're cutting off the flow of air with the throttle body, and then adding it back with n2o. This imo makes no sense.

peace

I think you are talking about a dry shot, I typically suggest wet shots only...

hippy · 08-12-2006, 09:17 PM

I was just responding to your statement about more fuel making more power. Yes, you need more fuel, but I was saying that there might already be enough fuel for a small shot if there was enough octane to run a leaner a/f ratio. It really had nothing to do with a wet or dry shot, even though the setup would technically be using a dry shot

.

Most people recommend wet shots because people don't have the fuel system capacity or adjustability to account for the extra air at a given a/f ratio. If you could run the a/f ratio you want using a dry shot, there aren't as many reasons to use a wet shot. In fact the only advantage I could think of is that maybe the fuel would act as an injection system cooling the intake charge. Course, the n2o comes out cold anyways. On top of that, it's safer in a way to run a dry shot then a wet shot, since the fuel system can contol if fuel is being injected or not. Just some food for thought.

peace

reddevil · 08-12-2006, 10:33 PM

Running big nitrous is easy, IF you tune for it AND your bottom block and clutch can take it.

Think of big nitrous (70 hp and above) as simply running WAY more boost. You wouldnt run 5-15 more psi without tuning would you? Same for nitrous. TUNE for it. Depending upon the motor, this could be as simple as road or dyno tuning the AFRs to make sure you are rich enough, to pulling serious timing (up to 20 degrees) for big power.

But with big/built motors you don't always have to pull timing, therefore more power for the same "shot" compared to other motors that would have to pull timing due to higher compression/detonation problems.

Another problem with big shots of nitrous is the way it "hits". American nitrous systems are typically ON/OFF. The best systems are computer controlled and you can regulate the time and power the system puts out. You can buy American systems that are computer controlled and there is an awesome European brand that actually has the solenoids to back up this style. Off the top of my head I don't remember either.

The problem with the On/Off type is the way the power hits. Its instantanious. And not just hp, but torque. And clutches, axles and trannies typically don't like instant boosts of 150 torque! If you can do dual stage, or even three stage, then the hit is easier on everything to handle. Similar to building boost along the rpm range.

vipermodder · 08-14-2006, 02:50 AM

which is better nos or methanol? and is it possible to run both at once?

Ultimate Collision Center · 08-14-2006, 08:01 AM

Methanol is better for daily use and nitrous is better for making power, it all depends on what you want out of the car, and yes you can run both, I personally run both on my evo at the same time...

reddevil · 08-22-2006, 02:25 AM

Lost another motor due to nitrous....

I had some great runs with the nitrous, no knock.

then I would have a knock or two.

Then I great run....

then I lost a ringland.....

Of course I am running ***** ass weak NA pistons, at high compression, so its kinda too be expected.....

But remember, extra power = extra risk!

Nitrous took me from 14.3 @ 94 to 13.5 @ 100......

New motor is actually going to hopefully be a nitrous eating beast! Cmon 12's!!!!!

DoctorNick · 08-22-2006, 11:37 AM

I run 12.1 @ 115 all day long. I know with good driving, there is more in it but my goal is to try to skip as much of the 11s as possible by hooking up a direct port nitrous system.

I wanna run about 20lbs of boost thru my SZ49 and maybe a 55shot.

Should I consider running a 80 shot? The car will be running a JDM ecutek tuned for C16 w/ a utec controling nitrous. Off spray the car should make near 380-400whp on a dynojet. W/ spray I would like to get at least 50 or so more whp. Help me overcome the 4th shift I have to do in the 1320.

Any opinions. Suggestions.

What fail safes should I look at?

I am pretty sure I will only be spraying from about 3500-6500. Shifting at 6500-7k. Redline 7500.

hippy · 08-22-2006, 03:51 PM

Why direct port?

Ultimate Collision Center · 08-22-2006, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoctorNick

I run 12.1 @ 115 all day long. I know with good driving, there is more in it but my goal is to try to skip as much of the 11s as possible by hooking up a direct port nitrous system.

I wanna run about 20lbs of boost thru my SZ49 and maybe a 55shot.

Should I consider running a 80 shot? The car will be running a JDM ecutek tuned for C16 w/ a utec controling nitrous. Off spray the car should make near 380-400whp on a dynojet. W/ spray I would like to get at least 50 or so more whp. Help me overcome the 4th shift I have to do in the 1320.

Any opinions. Suggestions.

What fail safes should I look at?

I am pretty sure I will only be spraying from about 3500-6500. Shifting at 6500-7k. Redline 7500.

I would go with a 50-55 wet shot (nos, nitrous express, zex). Use the utec to hook it up and control it and you will really only need that for a failsafe, but a fuel safety switch can be added to the nos or NX kit if you desire for added safety. You will make atleast 50whp and like 80wtq...

TheDocta · 08-23-2006, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hippy

Why direct port?

because he heard it in the fast and the furious

jk jk

just thought that was funny

DoctorNick · 08-23-2006, 05:58 PM

Its a kit my friend was running on his RS.
Ran real well in his and I can get it for a good price.

Is there a problem with direct port?

reddevil · 08-25-2006, 02:00 AM

direct port is best, plain and simple, because it gives the most equal amount to each manifold runner. Its also the hardest to set up because you must remove the manifold to tap the foggers in.

And REMEMBER, if you go direct port, that means that the jets for each fogger MUST me 1/4 the size (hp wise) that a single jet. Which for a 50 shot is a pain in the ass! Thats a TINY ASS JET!!!!!

I plan on going direct port this year, but will be probably be spraying 100-150 shot, so each jet will be 25-37 hp each. much easier to do.

gerald06sti · 08-25-2006, 11:57 AM

Can you use nitrous to spray your intercooler? I have heard of this being done before. Is this a myth or fact?

Master2192 · 08-25-2006, 12:04 PM

Yes, Nitrous Express makes a kit that will spray liquid NO2 onto the intercooler. You can also use Liquid CO2 if you wanted to.

http://www.nitrousexpress.com/Pages/Ntercooler.htm

gerald06sti · 08-25-2006, 03:25 PM

NICE! I want one. I assume you would have to tune for this? Also it would seem to be pretty safe - what issues could arise if it failed altogether?

hippy · 08-25-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerald06sti

NICE! I want one. I assume you would have to tune for this? Also it would seem to be pretty safe - what issues could arise if it failed altogether?

You don't have to tune for it(or anything for that matter), but it might change the a/f ratio depending on the ems you're using, and that could be bad(so it would probably be good to tune for). I f it failed, the a/f ratio could change, and the charged air could get too hot if you're running higher boost because of the cooling capacity. This could also be bad. It could also weaken/break the intercooler from cooling/heating it so drasticly.

Imo using n2o to cool an intercooler is not nearly as efficient a way to get power as injecting it into the engine. It might get good results in certain situations, but it's at a cost of using a lot more n2o then you'd use while injecting, and getting less power. True, you could do both, and if you're looking for more power, that would obviously be an option. I just don't see it as being very cost efficient for the power ya get, especially in the long run.

peace

xcntrk75 · 08-25-2006, 04:28 PM

Question I’ve been thinking over; what’s a better choice for those will a fully configurable engine management system, a wet or dry nitrous system?

Theoretically a wet system isn’t necessary if your EM has the ability and is tuned to provide an adequate increase in fuel to compensate for the additional oxygen when nitrous is applied, right?

07-28-2006, 06:48 PM	#1
Ultimate Collision Center Vendor Member#: 69072 Join Date: Aug 2004 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Peekskill	Nitrous Questions and Answers... I want to keep this running for anyone interested in the 'squeeze'. Just like many were afraid to run methanol for a while and now its becoming popular, nitrous should be right there with methanol. I personally run both and love both equally. If anyone has any questions or concerns please let me know... * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

08-01-2006, 12:51 AM	#2
BoxerSpirt Scooby Newbie Member#: 85726 Join Date: Apr 2005	to get started I have a 2.0 with 80,000 miles, stock boost and stock EM. Is it possible to run spray from this point? Safe setups? Positives/negatives? Wey kit/dry kit? thanks for your help.

08-12-2006, 09:17 PM	#10
hippy Scooby Specialist Member#: 36528 Join Date: May 2003 Location: florida Vehicle: 2002 Impreza Wrx Silver	I was just responding to your statement about more fuel making more power. Yes, you need more fuel, but I was saying that there might already be enough fuel for a small shot if there was enough octane to run a leaner a/f ratio. It really had nothing to do with a wet or dry shot, even though the setup would technically be using a dry shot. Most people recommend wet shots because people don't have the fuel system capacity or adjustability to account for the extra air at a given a/f ratio. If you could run the a/f ratio you want using a dry shot, there aren't as many reasons to use a wet shot. In fact the only advantage I could think of is that maybe the fuel would act as an injection system cooling the intake charge. Course, the n2o comes out cold anyways. On top of that, it's safer in a way to run a dry shot then a wet shot, since the fuel system can contol if fuel is being injected or not. Just some food for thought. peace

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08-01-2006, 01:11 AM	#3
Ultimate Collision Center Vendor Member#: 69072 Join Date: Aug 2004 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Peekskill	You are up there in miles but certainly not beyond the point of using nitrous. I wouldn't suggest using anything bigger than a 50 shot though (normally the biggest shot I recommend unless you are getting the car tuned for nitrous and understand the possible consequences of it). I would suggest using a wet shot and start with a 35 shot and go from there. A 35 shot won't feel like a huge difference but its definitely a nice power gain and is very safe to run. I would only run a wet shot unless for some reason you were setting up the car for nitrous only and then there are some advantages to using a dry shot. The thing people have to remember is that you make power from the added fuel not the added air, the added air only allows you to burn more fuel...

08-12-2006, 04:21 PM	#4
DragonSlayer Scooby Newbie Member#: 77556 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Dakota Vehicle: 2004 WRX World Rally Blue	So, with a 35-wet-shot, would I need to go with a larger fuel pump??

08-12-2006, 04:34 PM	#5
wrxdrvr Scooby Specialist Member#: 79222 Join Date: Jan 2005 Chapter/Region: W. Canada Location: Canada BC Vehicle: '09 STi 297.5 WHP Blue	What about something like a Venom nitrous system where you can change the amount of nitrous by the TPS... 10% of a 35 shot at 10% TP, 20% of a 35 shot at 20% TP, 30% of a 35 shot at 30% TP, etc.....I would be interested in a system like that.

08-12-2006, 10:33 PM	#11
reddevil Scooby Guru Member#: 64673 Join Date: Jun 2004 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: portland Vehicle: 1990 Legacy wagon goes 12.387 @ 116.5	Running big nitrous is easy, IF you tune for it AND your bottom block and clutch can take it. Think of big nitrous (70 hp and above) as simply running WAY more boost. You wouldnt run 5-15 more psi without tuning would you? Same for nitrous. TUNE for it. Depending upon the motor, this could be as simple as road or dyno tuning the AFRs to make sure you are rich enough, to pulling serious timing (up to 20 degrees) for big power. But with big/built motors you don't always have to pull timing, therefore more power for the same "shot" compared to other motors that would have to pull timing due to higher compression/detonation problems. Another problem with big shots of nitrous is the way it "hits". American nitrous systems are typically ON/OFF. The best systems are computer controlled and you can regulate the time and power the system puts out. You can buy American systems that are computer controlled and there is an awesome European brand that actually has the solenoids to back up this style. Off the top of my head I don't remember either. The problem with the On/Off type is the way the power hits. Its instantanious. And not just hp, but torque. And clutches, axles and trannies typically don't like instant boosts of 150 torque! If you can do dual stage, or even three stage, then the hit is easier on everything to handle. Similar to building boost along the rpm range.

08-14-2006, 02:50 AM	#12
vipermodder Scooby Newbie Member#: 122965 Join Date: Aug 2006	which is better nos or methanol? and is it possible to run both at once?

08-14-2006, 08:01 AM	#13
Ultimate Collision Center Vendor Member#: 69072 Join Date: Aug 2004 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Peekskill	Methanol is better for daily use and nitrous is better for making power, it all depends on what you want out of the car, and yes you can run both, I personally run both on my evo at the same time...

08-22-2006, 02:25 AM	#14
reddevil Scooby Guru Member#: 64673 Join Date: Jun 2004 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: portland Vehicle: 1990 Legacy wagon goes 12.387 @ 116.5	Lost another motor due to nitrous.... I had some great runs with the nitrous, no knock. then I would have a knock or two. Then I great run.... then I lost a ringland..... Of course I am running ***** ass weak NA pistons, at high compression, so its kinda too be expected..... But remember, extra power = extra risk! Nitrous took me from 14.3 @ 94 to 13.5 @ 100...... New motor is actually going to hopefully be a nitrous eating beast! Cmon 12's!!!!!

08-22-2006, 11:37 AM	#15
DoctorNick NASIOC Supporter Member#: 7022 Join Date: May 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Chicago, Il. Vehicle: 2013 BRZ Limited SWP	I run 12.1 @ 115 all day long. I know with good driving, there is more in it but my goal is to try to skip as much of the 11s as possible by hooking up a direct port nitrous system. I wanna run about 20lbs of boost thru my SZ49 and maybe a 55shot. Should I consider running a 80 shot? The car will be running a JDM ecutek tuned for C16 w/ a utec controling nitrous. Off spray the car should make near 380-400whp on a dynojet. W/ spray I would like to get at least 50 or so more whp. Help me overcome the 4th shift I have to do in the 1320. Any opinions. Suggestions. What fail safes should I look at? I am pretty sure I will only be spraying from about 3500-6500. Shifting at 6500-7k. Redline 7500.

08-22-2006, 03:51 PM	#16
hippy Scooby Specialist Member#: 36528 Join Date: May 2003 Location: florida Vehicle: 2002 Impreza Wrx Silver	Why direct port?

08-23-2006, 05:58 PM	#19
DoctorNick NASIOC Supporter Member#: 7022 Join Date: May 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Chicago, Il. Vehicle: 2013 BRZ Limited SWP	Its a kit my friend was running on his RS. Ran real well in his and I can get it for a good price. Is there a problem with direct port?

08-25-2006, 02:00 AM	#20
reddevil Scooby Guru Member#: 64673 Join Date: Jun 2004 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: portland Vehicle: 1990 Legacy wagon goes 12.387 @ 116.5	direct port is best, plain and simple, because it gives the most equal amount to each manifold runner. Its also the hardest to set up because you must remove the manifold to tap the foggers in. And REMEMBER, if you go direct port, that means that the jets for each fogger MUST me 1/4 the size (hp wise) that a single jet. Which for a 50 shot is a pain in the ass! Thats a TINY ASS JET!!!!! I plan on going direct port this year, but will be probably be spraying 100-150 shot, so each jet will be 25-37 hp each. much easier to do.

08-25-2006, 11:57 AM	#21
gerald06sti Scooby Newbie Member#: 115586 Join Date: May 2006	Can you use nitrous to spray your intercooler? I have heard of this being done before. Is this a myth or fact?

08-25-2006, 12:04 PM	#22
Master2192 RIP 10/12/83 to 02/10/08 Scooby Specialist Member#: 83254 Join Date: Mar 2005 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Roy, Washington Vehicle: 98 2.5 RS 04 WRX	Yes, Nitrous Express makes a kit that will spray liquid NO2 onto the intercooler. You can also use Liquid CO2 if you wanted to. http://www.nitrousexpress.com/Pages/Ntercooler.htm

08-25-2006, 03:25 PM	#23
gerald06sti Scooby Newbie Member#: 115586 Join Date: May 2006	NICE! I want one. I assume you would have to tune for this? Also it would seem to be pretty safe - what issues could arise if it failed altogether?

08-25-2006, 04:28 PM	#25
xcntrk75 Scooby Specialist Member#: 60224 Join Date: Apr 2004 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: NOVA Vehicle: 2008 FXT Sports 2.5 Dark Grey Metallic	Question I’ve been thinking over; what’s a better choice for those will a fully configurable engine management system, a wet or dry nitrous system? Theoretically a wet system isn’t necessary if your EM has the ability and is tuned to provide an adequate increase in fuel to compensate for the additional oxygen when nitrous is applied, right?