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Old 07-29-2006, 12:24 PM   #1
KJR
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Default Injecting C16 vs. meth???

Anyone doing this?

I am thinking that it would yield larger gains since the C16 has a higher octane rating. Other than the lead factor of the C16, can anyone tell me what the advantages/disadvantages would be, and any potential hazards?

Can the injection kit hardware handle the C16? I am running a Coolingmist kit.

...and Hippy, this is not a bash Coolingmist thread.

thanks
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Old 07-29-2006, 05:28 PM   #2
hippy
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Haha. This thread has nothing to do with cooling. Shurflow pumps aren't ment to run fuel. Even with meth(and coolingmists special pump), they say it's not their fault if a fire starts when the mix is higher then 50/50% alc. I'd be afraid....... If I were you, I'd look into trying to put tetraethyl lead(what the "leaded" is in leaded gas) into your water/alc mix(I'm not sure if this is possible though). Then you'd conceivably(talkin out of my pooper) be able to run c16 in the fuel system, and leaded water/alc.

Course the octane rating of alc is already pretty high, and the octane rating of water is infinate. Their cooling abilities are probablt better then c16 too(just speculation). I dunno why you'd wanna switch them in the first place. Maybe adding lead would help with their specs on what happens with heat? eh, I stay away from any leaded fuels. Not only do they hurt my car parts, but the environment(I know ya knew that already, but....).

peace

Last edited by hippy; 07-29-2006 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 07-29-2006, 05:52 PM   #3
Uncle Scotty
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....there have been systems that incorporated a second fuel supply, with the associated hardware and headaches......these can be...mmmmm....problematic....

....if injecting methanol isn't gonna get ya where ya need ta be, then mebbe ya lookin for whores in a church....
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Old 07-29-2006, 07:12 PM   #4
KJR
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Ha, both good replies, thanks guys.

I am currently running 100% meth cuz the 50/50 didn't do squat for me, not even enough to retune the car....lol

However, I am moving from a 6gph nozzle to a 18gph nozzle and I am sure it will get me where I need/want/shouldn't be.....

I am also adding 1 gal of C16 per 91 octane tank full to help out there as well.

I was just curious as to what the, not so obvious to me, dangers are.

Hippy, thanks for all of your input to these threads; Lots of good info......and now I am scared my pump is going to fail due to the meth and the expansion of the fittings.
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Old 07-29-2006, 07:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJR
Ha, both good replies, thanks guys.

I am currently running 100% meth cuz the 50/50 didn't do squat for me, not even enough to retune the car....lol

However, I am moving from a 6gph nozzle to a 18gph nozzle and I am sure it will get me where I need/want/shouldn't be.....

I am also adding 1 gal of C16 per 91 octane tank full to help out there as well.

I was just curious as to what the, not so obvious to me, dangers are.

Hippy, thanks for all of your input to these threads; Lots of good info......and now I am scared my pump is going to fail due to the meth and the expansion of the fittings.
What size fuel injectors do you have? What kinda alc/water to petrol ratio are you trying to run? Maybe your 6gph nozzle was too big for 50/50, and using a larger nozzle might make it worse be worse. It's easy to inject more alc then water without running into serious power loss problems, and it seems like this is what happened to you. I really don't think that 18 gph nozzles should be used on 99% or more of the cars out there which run alc injection. Maybe using a smaller injector nozzle would be a better idea?

18gph is 1136cc/min. This injector could run a 25%(or higher) alc/water to petrol ratio on a car with 1000cc injectors. It can run 35% or higher alc/water to petrl ratio on a car with 800cc injectors(in any rpm range), and can't run lower then 16% alc to fuel ratio on 800cc injectors. If you were using 40% of the fuel systems capacity (lets say at 4000rpm and 20psi or whatever), the lowest water/alc to petrol ratio you could get is about 40% water/alc to fuel(a bit high).

peace

Last edited by hippy; 07-29-2006 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 07-29-2006, 08:15 PM   #6
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I am running Deaschwerks modded injectors. Stat sheet says they go static around 900cc. I am not sure about the current scaling, only my tuner would know....

I am running a Greddy T518Z turbo with a 2.0lt stock block/heads @ 24psi max. Full boost is reached ~4200 rpm.

The car ran fine when we pulled on the dyno with 50/50, it just did not change the AFR's enough to make any tuning changes. We immediately switched to 100% meth and then AFR's went to about 15.5-16, so we could then start tuning. I yielded an addittional 35whp with the injection, but both myself and my tuner thought I should have had better results. My tuner said he has been told the max alky ratio is about 30%. I am thinking, with the 18gph nozzle, I will be far above this ratio.
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Old 07-29-2006, 08:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJR
....The car ran fine when we pulled on the dyno with 50/50, it just did not change the AFR's enough to make any tuning changes. We immediately switched to 100% meth and then AFR's went to about 15.5-16, so we could then start tuning....
Imo this makes no sense. The point of running meth isn't to change the a/f ratio by adding meth. Also, the a/f ratio would have gotten richer from adding meth, not leaner by adding more meth(since there is more fuel and the same amount of air). Who tuned your car? What's the a/f ratio reading at boost? What do you usually get for idc's around redline?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KJR
..... My tuner said he has been told the max alky ratio is about 30%. I am thinking, with the 18gph nozzle, I will be far above this ratio.
If you're not maxin out your fuel system throughout the whole rpm range, you will be above 30% at ever rpm if not more like 40 or 50% in certain rpm ranges. Also, you probably aren't coming anywhere near maxin out your injectors are you(unless you're runnin really rich)? With the size engine you have, and the boost you want to run, you might be able to max out 700cc injectors at 12-12.5 to 1 a/f ratio.

Most people think that 10-20% water/alc to fuel ratio is fine(I think 20% is a bit high for 100% water, maybe 30 is more for pure alc, I dunno). Anything from an m4 to an m6 should do this with your setup. It would probably be easier to get more power midrange while running more water(in your mixture) with an m4 then with an m6(cause the water/fuel ratio wouldn't be as high). You should still be able to get at least 10% water to fuel ratio at redline with an m4(if you're not running a really rich a/f ratio). Course this is just my opinion, and I'm no expert.

hippy

Last edited by hippy; 07-29-2006 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 07-30-2006, 01:41 AM   #8
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......ya need ta get a handle here......goin to an 18gph nozzle is NOT the answer!!!!!
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Old 07-30-2006, 02:29 AM   #9
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Well why do u think he didnt get any gains out of the alky?
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Old 07-30-2006, 06:44 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thran
Well why do u think he didnt get any gains out of the alky?

....he did....

Quote:
I yielded an addittional 35whp with the injection, but both myself and my tuner thought I should have had better results.

I think the ej205 is junk and he's likely got it pretty well maxed before it blows up.....that's what I think.

an 18gph nozzle for an ej205 is
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