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Old 07-30-2006, 02:59 AM   #1
bmxpunk
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Default Delta Cams Impressions

So the head gaskets on my 200 rs completely blew last night. Its a good thing I had a set of Sti metal gaskets ready to go in today. anyway, while I had the car apart, I threw in a set of delta "2000" grind cams and I must say that even though my only other supporting mod is a stromung Catback, these cams pull hard. I dont believe that i lost any lowend but I threw in some new plugs as well today since the od ones were well awful. SO they may have made up for some. anyhow the cams like the 3200-6200rpm range. it was a lot different of a feel from before. The rev limit comes really quickly, i never used to take the car this high since it didnt pull. the thing limiting my car right now is the stock exhaust manifolds, but i want a baseline so I am gonna try to hit the dyno down in Boulder before i stick new headers and a reflash on the car.

Overall with one day of driving so far, i will say that they are worth every penny that I paid. I followed my friend around in his 03 Wrx with a ported turbo and a 3" downpipe (stock boost level) and he didnt pull away from me too badly. we will see with the auto-x tomorrow

I will try to update with pics and dyno info when i can.
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Old 07-30-2006, 03:58 AM   #2
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Nice
So does it make more pwer than those Cobb and Twe make? cuz I'm consedering one soon
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Old 07-30-2006, 04:04 AM   #3
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not sure. i would assume not as much power as the cobb or twe whereas they are like 25% of the cost. but only the dyno can tell me that....
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Old 07-30-2006, 05:01 PM   #4
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Are these regrinds that you had to send cores in, or brand new grinds?
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Old 07-30-2006, 07:53 PM   #5
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I also just finished a Delt Cam install on my 00RS. I finished mine last week, and have to agree with you 100%. Before the cams, there was no point in revving much past 5500. There just isn't any more power.. Now.. with the Delta Cams, my car loves to hit the Rev Limiter. I used to know when to shift simply because the power was droping. Now, you have to watch the tack and listen close. Highway on-ramps? Now those are fun! What a great excuse to let the motor rev up. Also, it's only been a week, but the ever present 4500 rpm hesitation seems to have gone too. But, this could be a result of the ECU reset. We'll see.

Cons: Not major at all. The idle is a bit rough, but that doesn't really surprise me, or even bother me. I don't drive at Idle. :P And the car isn't about to stall, it just bounces around a little bit. I do also have a CEL, but I'm almost positive it's because my OBX Header and Cat-Delete pipe. I'll pull the code one day, but that CEL has come and gone ever since getting my Header. I also have a 3" CAI and a K&N Panel Filter. Next thing I'm going to add is an I-Speed reflash to max the impact of these cams.

My Wife has an 04 ForesterXT. And no, I don't think I can take her in a straight line, but I'll tell you what, it's getting a hell of alot closer. Re-Flash, and we'll try that again. Bottom line, this is the BEST mod I've done to my car to date. Or atleast, one of the most fun. If your up for the work to do it, I say DO IT. These cams make your NA 2.5 rev the way it should have from the factory. Now all my Suspension upgrades have a motor to max them out.
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Old 07-30-2006, 08:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmxpunk
not sure. i would assume not as much power as the cobb or twe whereas they are like 25% of the cost. but only the dyno can tell me that....
My Vote.. For the cost, COBB or TWE just can't be that much better If any at all. If they are, good on them! Heck, even if the COBB produce 10% more power, I figure the cost savings for a Delta regrind is totaly worth it. Beleve me, there is nothing wrong with the Delta Cams, and you'll love the Result.

P.S. The guy at Delta told me that this is a 100% regrind, not a "Weld on More metal" and regrind like some of the threads here have stated. Once installed I had to re-lash the valves due to the obvious change in diameter. No biggie.
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Old 07-30-2006, 10:20 PM   #7
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How much do these run about?
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Old 07-30-2006, 10:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteghost 2.5
How much do these run about?
i think like 220 or something
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Old 07-30-2006, 11:14 PM   #9
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Including 3-day return shipping costs (Washington back to Texas), it cost me $169 for a pair of SOHC Phase-II cams. The return shipping was about $25, and no tax since I'm in texas, so it was about $70 per cam. Plus, it cost me $25 to send the cams to them, so.. Grand total, just shy of $200 Shipped.
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Old 07-30-2006, 11:51 PM   #10
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So, how did this get worked out? Did they send you cams, and you send your stockers back to them? Or did you have to send your stockers before they sent you theirs? Also, is there an option to keep your stock cams (core charge that's refunded when you send in your stockers)?
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Old 07-31-2006, 02:10 AM   #11
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Yes I had a friend with a spare set so we sent those off to be worked while I was still driving the car. I am in wyoming so my shiping was like 8 dollars cheaper, since, i am closer.

These things were wicked today at the auto cross. (Rs with stock everything except cams and catback poor suspension is stock ) anyway, i set the 3rd fastest time (1st and 2nd on hoosier and avon race tires- me on fusions). the course was perfect for this car, a little more open, but not open enough for the turbo cars I spent the entire course in second between 3000-6200 prm still had low end on the tight corners but on the top ed was perfect. we had one straight with a slight dog leg to it, that was perfect for my power band, left one corner and the car pulled right to 6100 just in time for the next corner. and i mean pulled. i cant wait for the EL header and reflash now. almost makes me want to say screw my 22t-ed impreza....almost

My 22t also has delta cams in it and i am very pleased with those as well.

I do have a slight bit of a loppy idle, but no cel with about 160 miles on them. Best power mod i have done yet need the suspension to catch up however.
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Old 07-31-2006, 09:18 AM   #12
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As for me, I did have to go without my car for a week while the Cams were at Delta. I had my car apart by noon Saturday, shipped the cams off by 2:00pm, they got to Delta by Tuesday Morning, they finished the re-grind that day, and shipped them back to me Tuesday night. Friday afternoon, UPS Guy dropped them on my door. Saturday, put her back together, and drove off!

Hey BMXPunk.. Are you plannin' the I-Speed reflash? Have you talked to them about your mods yet? Do they have maps for a car with Delta Cams?
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Old 07-31-2006, 10:57 AM   #13
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So basically, in order to get the delta's, you need to track down a second set of stock cams if you want to keep your stockers? That's a touch inconvenient.
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Old 07-31-2006, 11:23 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FalconRS
So basically, in order to get the delta's, you need to track down a second set of stock cams if you want to keep your stockers? That's a touch inconvenient.
its not that bad. same motor as any 2.5 outback or legacy. and with all the other people doing cams, there has to be a used set for sale regularly.


I speed gave me very little info when i was asking them about their reflash. i listed my mods to heim and he didnt help guide me into what reflash or anything.
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Old 07-31-2006, 11:27 AM   #15
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Tyler,
That's because they don't have an off the shelf flash for a car with cams...
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Old 07-31-2006, 11:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FalconRS
So basically, in order to get the delta's, you need to track down a second set of stock cams if you want to keep your stockers? That's a touch inconvenient.
Would you rather be able to grab a set off the shelf at Canadian Tire?

Jay Storm
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Old 07-31-2006, 11:53 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
Tyler,
That's because they don't have an off the shelf flash for a car with cams...
ah see i was asking that and he wouldnt give me an answer.

Question:
I have delta cams, a ganzflow and catback exhaust with plans fo an EL header in the coming month, which reflash would you suggest?

Answer:
"Do you live close?"
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Old 07-31-2006, 11:58 AM   #18
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With all the GC swaps going on, I'm sure there are various motors, heads, cams and whatever else you need for a decent price. Then, just take your OEM out and sell them here, on eBay, RS25 or somewhere else.

That's my plan. Hopefully buy a cheap DOHC engine that mimics mine, build it to where I want it, swap engines and go.

Good write-up on the cams. Since I'm not going all-out NA anymore thanks to my motorcycle addiction, these might be a viable solution. Any thoughts on a Port/Polish job to help the cams out a bit more? Nothing extensive, just help it breath a bit more and equalize the ports and do a couple other bits-n-pieces.
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Old 07-31-2006, 12:37 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm
Would you rather be able to grab a set off the shelf at Canadian Tire?

Jay Storm
And what would be wrong with that? Would save shipping in two directions.

I'm just saying that Delta should at least use a core-charge system so you have the option of keeping your stockers so you can go back to stock at some point if you need to.
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Old 07-31-2006, 01:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midnx03
With all the GC swaps going on, I'm sure there are various motors, heads, cams and whatever else you need for a decent price. Then, just take your OEM out and sell them here, on eBay, RS25 or somewhere else.

That's my plan. Hopefully buy a cheap DOHC engine that mimics mine, build it to where I want it, swap engines and go.

Good write-up on the cams. Since I'm not going all-out NA anymore thanks to my motorcycle addiction, these might be a viable solution. Any thoughts on a Port/Polish job to help the cams out a bit more? Nothing extensive, just help it breath a bit more and equalize the ports and do a couple other bits-n-pieces.
yes these heads like to be ported!!!! Check out Matt MOnsons write-ups or SOLUTION and I think Patrick Olsen. they are all pushing the envelope with the NA motors...better yet check out zzyzx's car. :drool:


I had a line on some heads so i could get them ported, but thats a lot of money. but with the drastic change from just the cams.... i just might. must... finish...22t...first....
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Old 07-31-2006, 03:52 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FalconRS
So basically, in order to get the delta's, you need to track down a second set of stock cams if you want to keep your stockers? That's a touch inconvenient.
its not hard to find those cams, you should be able to get them for free or close to it. I got 1 set of heads for free and another set for $30.
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Old 07-31-2006, 04:43 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FalconRS
And what would be wrong with that? Would save shipping in two directions.

I'm just saying that Delta should at least use a core-charge system so you have the option of keeping your stockers so you can go back to stock at some point if you need to.
They may take that approach for a simplicity of accounting gain. I work for a shop that does core exchange on many items. It's a pain. You charge $300-1000 up front when they buy the part and then when they ship it back, you have to write a check. It makes for a lot of bookkeeping, not to mention the major headaches when the core is not usable. Then you have to fight with the customer about not giving them a core charge back. Plus, since Delta's price is 1/3 of the competition, I think it's a minor inconvenience to have to send them your own cams. Lastly, Subaru cams are such a small portion of their business, I would hazard to guess they are not interested in the hassle of accumulating a bunch of spare cams to set on their shelf. Someone like Cobb or TWE has a bunch of core engines sitting around that they can use for regrinds...
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:08 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmxpunk
yes these heads like to be ported!!!! Check out Matt MOnsons write-ups or SOLUTION and I think Patrick Olsen. they are all pushing the envelope with the NA motors...better yet check out zzyzx's car. :drool:


I had a line on some heads so i could get them ported, but thats a lot of money. but with the drastic change from just the cams.... i just might. must... finish...22t...first....
Yup, I've watched Pat's car grown from the ground up. He is doing really well. Matt's car is right along with him. And don't get me started on zzyzx's car. That is pure perfection.

But way too much than I'm willing to spend anymore. For the price of said motor upgrades, I could have 3-4 track prepped motorcycles that give me the fun and adrenaline rush the car would. So, I've downgraded my plans on the car to just get a few more HP out of it. As I say, it will be a mild/medium port job with some valve seating and bench testing. I'll probably tailor it to the cams I end up buying. But I'm not going to be aiming for a 8K RPM NA screamer, as I just don't have that type of expendible income at the moment.

Of course, these motor upgrades are dependant on me finding another Phase I engine to work on.
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:27 PM   #24
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where is the website for these? I am intrested in doing this the price seems very good.

Josh
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Old 07-31-2006, 06:45 PM   #25
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They don't have a website for our cams specifically, but their main web site is http://www.deltacam.com/ Give them a call if you want any info, they are really easy to talk to on the phone. And happy to answer any questions.
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