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Old 08-07-2006, 10:10 AM   #26
elsanto
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Member#: 34832
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: was once a nut like me.
Vehicle:
1989 M3
White

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oh i have a blitz SBC-ID with the gain cranked way up. up pipe is wrapped as well.. the headers could probably use help. and i could seal off the hotside of the turbo. but right now i have a bad CV to take care of 100k is not friendly to stage 4 cars

and not sure what to look into with the WG spring
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Old 08-07-2006, 10:25 AM   #27
cdvma
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Member#: 21980
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Central MA
Vehicle:
2002 PSM WRX (Sold)
2009 BMW X5

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000
i suspect that one thing that hurts my spool up (albeit very slightly) is the gutted oem up pipe. do you have a gutted pipe on the car chris?

...

imo, most porting and polishing and gasket matching becomes increasingly effective as mass flow rates go up, but do not really help spool.
I have a Vishnu 321 uppipe (the one you gutted for me is in the other WRX). I agree with the thoughts on P&P regarding the MAF rates. Especially when the hot side is ported out...heck the gains it showed me on the stock turbo was fantastic. Also shows that my ceramic coating doesn't do squat either for spool. Suck that vendors who make spool claims *cough*crucial*cough* for coating.
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Old 08-07-2006, 11:35 PM   #28
CMJ
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Member#: 39235
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: L.A., CA
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Here's a Green clone(TD06, not TD06H) on the EJ205:
Ebay TMIC
Catless Helix dp
gutted uppipe
stock midpipe
2.5" axle back

Air temp=80F
Cali 91oct.
4th gear:
Code:
2334  +0.2 2.7 101  10    00   14.5 +35.9   10.5 +31.5  -6.2    .00 2.3
 2364  +0.2 2.7 101  10    00   14.8 +36.7   10.8 +31.5  -6.2    .00 2.3
 2369  +0.6 2.7 102  10    00   14.7 +35.9   10.7 +30.8  -6.2 WGS.   2.3
 2344  +0.8 2.8 102  10    00   14.7 +35.6   11.2 +30.3  -6.2 WGS.   2.3
 2389  +1.1 2.8 102  10    00   14.4 +35.3   11.3 +30.3  -6.2 WGS.   2.3
 2403  +0.8 2.7 101  10    00   14.3 +34.9   11.3 +30.3  -6.2 WGS.   2.4
 2417  +1.3 2.7 102  10    00   14.4 +34.8   11.8 +30.0  -6.2 WGS.   2.3
 2431  +1.3 2.8 102  10    00   14.1 +34.5   11.9 +29.5  -6.2 WGS.   2.4
 2443  +1.5 2.8 102  10    00   14.1 +34.2   11.8 +29.3  -6.2 WGS.   2.4
 2458  +1.5 2.8 101  10    00   13.8 +34.2   12.2 +29.3  -6.2 WGS.   2.4
 2418  +1.5 2.9 101  10    00   13.9 +34.1   12.2 +29.3  -6.2 WGS.   2.4
 2465  +1.7 2.9 102  10    00   14.1 +34.1   12.2 +28.8  -6.2 WGS.   2.4
 2478  +1.9 2.8 102  10    00   14.3 +33.6   12.5 +28.8  -6.2 WGS.   2.4
 2472  +1.9 2.9 102  10    00   14.1 +33.5   12.5 +28.5  -6.2 WGS.   2.4
 2498  +2.1 2.9 102  10    00   14.3 +33.9   12.7 +28.5  -7.0 WGS.   2.4
 2502  +2.1 2.9 102  10    00   14.4 +33.5   12.9 +28.0  -7.3 WGS.   2.4
 2511  +2.1 2.9 102  20    00   14.3 +33.9   12.4 +28.0  -7.3 WGS.   2.4
 2546  +2.3 2.9 102  20    00   14.6 +33.9   12.8 +28.0  -7.3 WGS.   2.4
 2540  +2.3 2.9 102  20    00   14.3 +33.9   12.4 +28.0  -7.3 WGS.   2.4
 2566  +2.3 2.9 102  20    00   14.5 +33.9   12.6 +28.0  -7.4 WGS.   2.4
 2570  +2.3 2.9 102  20    00   12.5 +33.9   12.8 +28.0  -7.4 WGS.   2.4
 2583  +2.3 2.9 102  20    00   14.7 +33.9   12.8 +28.0  -7.5 WGS.   2.4
 2585  +2.5 2.9 102  20    00   14.8 +33.8   12.8 +28.0  -7.5 WGS.   2.4
 2610  +2.5 3.0 102  20    00   14.8 +33.8   12.8 +28.0  -7.6 WGS.   2.5
 2602  +2.5 2.9 102  20    00   14.9 +33.5   12.9 +28.0  -7.6 WGS.   2.5
 2612  +2.5 2.9 102  20    00   14.9 +33.5   13.1 +28.0  -7.6 WGS.   2.4
 2630  +2.7 3.0 102  20    00   14.6 +33.5   13.3 +28.0  -7.7 WGS.   2.5
 2660  +2.7 2.9 102  20    00   14.7 +33.5   13.2 +27.9  -7.7 WGS.   2.4
 2651  +2.7 3.0 102  20    00   14.6 +33.5   13.5 +27.9  -7.8 WGS.   2.5
 2662  +2.7 3.0 102  20    00   14.7 +33.4   13.4 +27.9  -7.9 WGS.   2.5
 2677  +2.9 2.9 102  20    00   14.9 +33.4   13.4 +27.9  -7.8 WGS.   2.4
 2690  +2.7 3.0 102  20    00   14.9 +33.5   13.4 +27.9  -7.9 WGS.   2.4
 2707  +2.7 3.0 102  20    00   15.0 +33.5   13.6 +27.8  -8.0 WGS.   2.5
 2707  +2.9 3.0 102  20    00   14.8 +33.5   13.7 +27.7  -8.0 WGS.   2.5
 2730  +2.9 3.0 102  20    00   14.9 +33.5   13.9 +27.7  -8.0 WGS.   2.5
 2738  +2.9 3.0 102  20    00   14.8 +33.4   14.1 +27.7  -8.1 WGS.   2.5
 2748  +3.1 3.0 102  20    00   14.8 +33.4   14.1 +27.6  -8.2 WGS.   2.5
 2734  +3.1 3.0 102  20    00   14.6 +33.4   14.5 +27.6  -8.2 WGS.   2.5
 2775  +3.1 3.0 102  20    00   14.6 +33.4   14.9 +27.6  -8.1 WGS.   2.5
 2803  +3.3 3.0 102  20    00   14.7 +33.3   14.9 +27.6  -8.2 WGS.   2.6
 2796  +3.1 3.0 102  20    00   14.5 +33.3   14.9 +27.5  -8.2 WGS.   2.5
 2810  +3.3 3.1 102  20    00   14.5 +33.3   15.3 +27.5  -8.2 WGS.   2.6
 2839  +3.5 3.1 102  20    00   14.1 +33.2   15.2 +27.5  -8.2 WGS.   2.6
 2836  +3.5 3.0 102  20    00   14.3 +33.2   15.1 +27.5  -8.2 WGS.   2.5
 2841  +3.5 3.1 102  20    00   14.6 +33.1   15.3 +27.3  -8.2 WGS.   2.5
 2832  +3.5 3.1 102  20    00   14.5 +33.1   15.6 +27.3  -8.2 WGS.   2.6
 2858  +3.7 3.1 102  20    00   14.4 +33.1   16.0 +27.3  -8.2 WGS.   2.6
 2898  +3.7 3.1 102  20    00   14.4 +33.2   15.9 +27.2  -8.1 WGS.   2.6
 2908  +3.7 3.1 102  20    00   14.3 +32.7   16.0 +27.2  -8.1 WGS.   2.6
 2891  +3.9 3.1 102  20    00   14.4 +32.8   16.2 +26.9  -8.1 WGS.   2.6
 2878  +3.9 3.1 102  20    00   14.2 +32.4   16.7 +26.9  -8.1 WGS.   2.6
 2947  +4.1 3.2 102  20    00   14.2 +31.9   16.4 +26.8  -8.1 WGS.   2.6
 2921  +4.1 3.1 102  20    00   14.1 +32.0   16.7 +26.7  -8.1 WGS.   2.6
 2931  +4.3 3.2 102  20    00   14.1 +31.6   17.0 +26.6  -8.1 WGS.   2.6
 2970  +4.3 3.1 102  30    00   13.8 +30.5   18.2 +26.6  -7.2 WGS.   2.6
 2973  +4.5 3.2 102  30    00   13.4 +29.7   18.0 +26.1  -7.2 WGS.   2.7
 2997  +4.5 3.2 102  30    00   13.3 +29.6   17.9 +26.0  -7.2 WGS.   2.7
 3008  +4.5 3.2 102  30    00   13.2 +29.7   18.3 +25.9  -7.3 WGS.   2.7
 3013  +4.7 3.2 102  30    00   13.8 +29.7   18.2 +25.9  -7.4 WGS.   2.7
 3038  +4.7 3.2 102  30    00   13.5 +29.7   19.0 +25.6  -7.4 WGS.   2.7
 3049  +4.7 3.3 102  30    00   13.6 +30.3   18.6 +25.6  -7.5 WGS.   2.7
 3055  +4.9 3.3 102  30    00   13.3 +29.6   19.0 +25.6  -7.5 WGS.   2.6
 3066  +4.9 3.2 102  30    00   13.3 +29.7   19.1 +25.4  -7.6 WGS.   2.7
 3086  +5.1 3.2 102  30    00   13.2 +29.3   19.3 +25.4  -7.6 WGS.   2.7
 3095  +4.9 3.3 102  30    00   13.1 +29.0   19.4 +25.4  -7.6 WGS.   2.8
 3095  +5.1 3.2 102  30    00   13.0 +29.0   19.5 +25.0  -7.7 WGS.   2.7
 3124  +5.1 3.3 102  30    00   13.3 +29.0   20.0 +25.0  -7.8 WGS.   2.8
 3124  +5.1 3.3 102  30    00   13.5 +28.9   19.8 +24.9  -7.8 WGS.   2.8
 3153  +5.3 3.3 102  30    00   13.3 +28.8   19.9 +24.6  -7.8 WGS.   2.8
 3186  +5.3 3.2 102  30    00   12.9 +28.6   20.6 +24.7  -7.9 WGS.   2.8
 3162  +5.3 3.2 102  30    00   12.7 +28.5   20.7 +24.2  -8.1 WGS.   2.8
 3174  +5.5 3.3 102  30    00   12.7 +28.5   20.7 +24.1  -8.0 WGS.   2.8
 3202  +5.5 3.3 102  30    00   13.0 +28.2   20.7 +24.0  -8.0 WGS.   2.8
 3223  +5.7 3.4 102  30    00   12.9 +28.5   21.2 +23.8  -8.1 WGS.   2.7
 3226  +5.7 3.4 102  30    00   13.1 +28.2   21.4 +23.3  -8.1 WGS.   2.8
 3239  +5.9 3.3 102  30    00   13.3 +27.9   21.7 +23.3  -8.2 WGS.   2.8
 3248  +5.9 3.4 102  30    00   12.6 +27.5   21.8 +23.0  -8.2 WGS.   2.9
 3245  +6.4 3.3 102  30    00   13.0 +27.5   22.1 +22.7  -8.3 WGS.   2.7
 3284  +6.4 3.4 102  30    00   12.6 +27.8   22.4 +22.3  -8.2 WGS.   2.8
 3277  +6.4 3.5 102  30    00   12.5 +27.5   23.1 +22.0  -8.1 WGS.   2.9
 3313  +6.6 3.5 102  40    00   12.7 +27.1   23.0 +21.7  -7.4 WGS.   2.9
 3303  +6.6 3.5 102  40    00   12.3 +27.8   23.5 +21.2  -7.4 WGS.   2.9
 3350  +6.8 3.5 102  40    00   12.1 +27.5   24.2 +20.9  -7.3 WGS.   2.9
 3336  +7.0 3.5 102  40    00   rich +27.5   24.5 +20.7  -7.2 WGS.   2.8
 3356  +7.2 3.5 102  40    00   12.1 +27.1   25.3 +20.4  -7.3 WGS.   2.9
 3370  +7.2 3.4 102  40    00   rich +27.1   25.9 +19.7  -7.2 WGS.   3.0
 3422  +7.6 3.6 102  40    00   rich +27.2   26.9 +19.5  -7.1 WGS.   2.9
 3408  +7.6 3.4 102  40    00   rich +26.9   26.9 +19.0  -7.1 WGS.   3.0
 3443  +8.0 3.6 102  40    00   rich +26.4   27.8 +18.7  -7.0 WGS.   3.0
 3443  +8.2 3.5 102  40    00   rich +26.5   27.3 +18.1  -6.8 WGS.   3.0
 3457  +8.4 3.5 102  40    00   rich +26.5   28.2 +17.9  -7.0 WGS.   2.9
 3447  +8.6 3.5 102  40    00   rich +26.0   28.7 +17.4  -6.9 WGS.   2.9
 3465  +8.8 3.6 102  40    00   rich +26.0   28.8 +17.1  -6.7 WGS.   3.0
 3494  +9.0 3.5 102  50    00   rich +24.7   32.9 +16.9  -4.4 WGS.   3.1
 3516  +9.2 3.5 102  50    00   rich +23.9   33.0 +16.7  -4.4 WGS.   3.2
 3523  +9.4 3.6 102  50    00   rich +23.6   33.4 +16.7  -4.4 WGS.   3.1
 3553  +9.8 3.7 102  50    00   rich +23.2   34.2 +16.5  -4.4 WGS.   3.1
 3553 +10.0 3.6 102  50    00   rich +23.3   35.8 +16.4  -4.4 WGS.   3.2
 3549 +10.4 3.8 102  50    00   rich +22.9   36.3 +16.3  -4.4 WGS.   3.2
 3557 +10.6 3.6 102  50    00   rich +23.0   37.4 +16.2  -4.4 WGS.   3.1
 3572 +10.8 3.7 102  50    00   rich +22.6   36.9 +16.0  -4.4 WGS.   3.2
 3595 +11.3 3.8 102  60    00   rich +22.1   38.7 +15.8  -4.3 WGS.   3.2
 3603 +11.5 3.8 102  60    00   rich +22.4   38.1 +15.4  -4.3 WGS.   3.2
 3631 +11.9 3.8 102  60    00   rich +22.1   39.9 +15.3  -4.3 WGS.   3.2
 3635 +12.3 3.9 102  60    00   rich +21.8   39.9 +14.9  -4.3 WGS.   3.2
 3591  +4.3 3.8   0  40    00   rich +22.5    6.2 ECU.   -8.0 WGS.   2.7

Last edited by CMJ; 08-07-2006 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 08-07-2006, 11:36 PM   #29
CMJ
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 39235
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: L.A., CA
Default

5th gear:
Code:
2906  +0.4 2.9 103  10    00   15.5 +32.9   12.4 +31.2  -7.6    .00 2.5
 2926  +0.8 3.0 102  10    00   16.5 +32.8   14.0 +30.6  -7.8 WGS.   2.5
 2936  +1.5 3.0 102  10    00   16.0 +32.9   14.7 +29.8  -7.7 WGS.   2.5
 2968  +2.1 3.1 102  10    00   15.3 +32.9   15.7 +29.2  -7.8 WGS.   2.6
 2997  +2.3 3.1 102  20    00   14.4 +32.8   16.3 +28.5  -8.1 WGS.   2.6
 3022  +2.9 3.1 102  20    00   14.5 +32.6   16.9 +28.3  -8.0 WGS.   2.7
 3038  +3.3 3.1 102  20    00   14.5 +32.3   17.0 +27.7  -8.0 WGS.   2.7
 3058  +3.7 3.2 102  20    00   14.3 +32.0   17.8 +27.0  -8.0 WGS.   2.7
 3066  +3.9 3.3 102  20    00   13.8 +31.7   18.3 +26.6  -8.0 WGS.   2.7
 3118  +4.3 3.2 102  20    00   13.5 +30.9   18.4 +26.4  -8.0 WGS.   2.7
 3132  +4.3 3.3 102  30    00   13.4 +31.0   19.5 +25.9  -7.9 WGS.   2.8
 3168  +4.7 3.3 102  30    00   13.4 +29.7   20.3 +25.4  -7.9 WGS.   2.8
 3183  +4.9 3.4 102  30    00   13.1 +29.6   20.7 +25.2  -8.0 WGS.   2.8
 3229  +5.3 3.4 102  30    00   13.2 +29.6   20.7 +24.7  -8.1 WGS.   2.8
 3233  +5.5 3.4 102  30    00   12.9 +29.2   21.9 +24.4  -8.2 WGS.   2.8
 3261  +5.7 3.4 102  30    00   12.8 +29.0   21.6 +23.7  -8.3 WGS.   2.8
 3280  +5.9 3.3 102  30    00   12.6 +28.9   22.7 +22.7  -8.1 WGS.   2.9
 3333  +6.2 3.4 102  30    00   12.8 +28.9   23.0 +22.3  -8.1 WGS.   2.9
 3343  +6.4 3.5 102  30    00   12.4 +28.5   24.2 +21.3  -7.9 WGS.   2.9
 3356  +6.8 3.4 102  40    00   12.1 +27.1   25.9 +21.0  -7.2 WGS.   2.9
 3394  +7.0 3.5 102  40    00   rich +27.2   26.8 +20.3  -7.1 WGS.   3.0
 3415  +7.4 3.4 102  40    00   rich +26.7   27.3 +19.3  -6.9 WGS.   3.0
 3443  +7.8 3.6 102  40    00   rich +26.5   28.3 +18.6  -6.8 WGS.   2.9
 3457  +8.0 3.6 102  40    00   rich +26.4   30.1 +18.0  -6.7 WGS.   3.0
 3516  +8.4 3.6 102  40    00   rich +26.1   31.1 +17.2  -6.6 WGS.   3.1
 3527  +9.0 3.6 102  50    00   rich +25.0   33.8 +16.9  -4.4 WGS.   3.1
 3568  +9.4 3.7 102  50    00   rich +23.5   36.1 +16.5  -4.4 WGS.   3.1
 3599  +9.8 3.8 102  50    00   rich +23.2   36.9 +16.3  -4.4 WGS.   3.2
 3650 +10.4 3.8 102  50    00   rich +22.7   38.1 +16.1  -4.4 WGS.   3.2
 3663 +11.0 3.8 102  60    00   rich +22.5   39.3 +15.8  -4.3 WGS.   3.3
 3728 +11.9 3.8 102  60    00   rich +21.7   42.3 +15.3  -4.3 WGS.   3.2
 3775 +12.5 3.8 102  60    00   rich +21.0   42.2 +14.7  -4.3 WGS.   3.3
 3805 +13.1 3.9 102  60    00   rich +20.2   43.3 +14.3  -3.8 WGS.   3.3
 3835 +13.9 4.0 102  70    00   rich +18.9   46.7 +14.0  -3.7 WGS.   3.4
 3871 +14.5 4.0 102  70    00   rich +18.1   49.1 +14.0  -3.4 WGS.   3.5
 3916 +15.1 4.0 101  70    00   rich +18.1   49.5 +13.7  -3.3 WGS.   3.6
 3954 +15.9 4.1 102  80    00   rich +17.6   51.7 +13.6  -3.2 WGS.   3.6
 3992 +16.4 4.1 102  80    00   rich +17.6   56.0 +13.5  -2.8 WGS.   3.5
 3982 +17.2 4.0 102  80    00   rich +17.4   56.0 +13.3  -2.8 WGS.   3.6
 4070 +18.0 4.1 102  90    00   rich +16.8   58.2 +13.3  -2.5 WGS.   3.7
 4095 +18.6 4.1 101  90    00   rich +16.3   60.8 +13.0  -2.4 WGS.   3.7
 4120 +19.0 4.1 101  90    00   rich +16.2   61.8 +12.9  -2.3 WGS.   3.7
 4224 +19.6 4.3 102  90    00   rich +16.3   61.8 +12.8  -2.3 WGS.   3.8
 4219 +19.8 4.3 101  90    00   rich +15.8   63.9 +12.9  -2.1 WGS.   3.8
 4295 +20.4 4.3 101 100    00   rich +16.1   64.3 +12.9  -2.1 WGS.   3.8
 4323 +20.4 4.2 101 100    00   rich +15.8   64.9 +13.3  -2.1 WGS.   3.7
 4334 +21.0 4.3 102 100    00   rich +15.8   65.4 +13.5  -2.1 WGS.   3.8
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Old 08-07-2006, 11:38 PM   #30
CMJ
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 39235
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: L.A., CA
Default

3rd gear:
Code:
2028  -7.9 2.1  19  00    00   14.3 +19.0    4.1 ECU.   -3.2    .00 2.4
 2067  -0.6 2.5  85  10    00   17.8 +33.5    8.5 +32.0  -6.2    .00 2.1
 2147  -0.2 2.6 103  10    00   16.8 +33.5    9.0 +32.0  -6.2    .00 2.1
 2185  -0.2 2.6 102  10    00   15.8 +33.5    9.4 +31.8  -6.2    .00 2.2
 2175  +0.0 2.7 102  10    00   15.2 +33.9    9.7 +31.6  -6.2    .00 2.2
 2157  +0.2 2.6 102  10    00   14.8 +35.8    9.9 +31.6  -6.2    .00 2.2
 2258  +0.4 2.7 102  10    00   14.4 +35.7   10.8 +31.1  -6.2    .00 2.3
 2287  +0.6 2.7 102  10    00   14.5 +35.3   10.6 +30.8  -6.2 WGS.   2.3
 2308  +0.8 2.7 102  10    00   14.8 +35.2   11.0 +30.3  -6.2 WGS.   2.3
 2382  +0.8 2.7 102  10    00   14.2 +34.9   11.2 +30.0  -6.2 WGS.   2.4
 2391  +1.1 2.7 101  10    00   14.1 +35.0   11.5 +30.0  -6.2 WGS.   2.4
 2433  +1.3 2.8 102  10    00   14.2 +34.6   12.1 +29.5  -6.2 WGS.   2.4
 2491  +1.5 2.8 102  10    00   14.0 +34.1   12.5 +29.3  -6.2 WGS.   2.4
 2523  +1.7 2.9 102  10    00   14.2 +33.9   12.5 +28.8  -6.2 WGS.   2.5
 2546  +1.9 2.9 102  10    00   14.5 +33.5   13.1 +28.5  -6.4 WGS.   2.5
 2598  +2.1 3.0 102  20    00   13.9 +33.1   13.0 +28.0  -7.6 WGS.   2.5
 2660  +2.1 2.9 102  20    00   14.7 +33.7   13.2 +28.0  -7.8 WGS.   2.5
 2703  +2.3 3.0 102  20    00   15.0 +33.5   13.6 +28.0  -7.9 WGS.   2.5
 2763  +2.5 3.0 102  20    00   14.9 +33.4   14.1 +27.9  -8.1 WGS.   2.5
 2794  +2.7 3.0 102  20    00   14.8 +33.3   14.9 +27.8  -8.2 WGS.   2.6
 2829  +2.9 3.0 102  20    00   14.6 +33.2   15.2 +27.7  -8.2 WGS.   2.5
 2888  +3.1 3.1 102  20    00   14.4 +33.1   16.0 +27.7  -8.1 WGS.   2.6
 2903  +3.3 3.1 102  20    00   14.4 +32.9   16.7 +27.5  -8.1 WGS.   2.6
 2994  +3.5 3.2 102  20    00   14.3 +32.4   17.4 +27.2  -8.1 WGS.   2.6
 3022  +3.7 3.2 102  20    00   14.0 +32.0   18.3 +27.0  -8.0 WGS.   2.6
 3052  +3.9 3.2 102  20    00   13.8 +31.3   18.7 +26.6  -8.0 WGS.   2.7
 3095  +4.3 3.2 102  20    00   13.2 +31.0   19.9 +26.0  -8.0 WGS.   2.7
 3192  +4.5 3.2 102  30    00   13.2 +30.6   20.2 +25.8  -7.9 WGS.   2.7
 3236  +4.7 3.3 102  30    00   13.1 +29.7   20.7 +25.3  -8.3 WGS.   2.8
 3316  +5.1 3.3 102  30    00   12.7 +29.7   21.7 +24.3  -8.0 WGS.   2.8
 3373  +5.3 3.3 102  30    00   12.7 +29.2   23.5 +22.8  -7.9 WGS.   2.9
 3425  +5.7 3.5 102  30    00   12.3 +28.5   25.7 +21.7  -7.6 WGS.   2.8
 3468  +6.2 3.4 102  30    00   rich +27.7   26.5 +20.5  -7.4 WGS.   2.9
 3519  +6.8 3.5 102  40    00   rich +27.1   28.3 +19.9  -6.6 WGS.   3.0
 3580  +7.4 3.6 102  40    00   rich +27.1   31.0 +18.8  -6.6 WGS.   3.0
 3667  +8.0 3.7 102  40    00   rich +26.4   32.7 +17.3  -6.6 WGS.   3.0
 3741  +8.8 3.6 102  50    00   rich +24.8   37.4 +16.1  -4.4 WGS.   3.2
 3818  +9.8 3.7 102  50    00   rich +23.8   38.9 +16.1  -4.4 WGS.   3.2
 3880 +10.8 3.9 102  50    00   rich +22.8   42.6 +16.1  -4.4 WGS.   3.4
 3954 +11.9 3.8 102  60    00   rich +22.0   43.4 +15.4  -4.3 WGS.   3.4
 4045 +12.9 4.0 102  60    00   rich +21.3   47.7 +15.1  -4.1  86.90 3.4
 4100 +14.1 4.0 102  70    00   rich +19.2   52.6 +15.0  -2.7  85.70 3.5
 4171 +15.3 4.1 102  70    00   rich +17.7   54.7 +14.7  -2.6  84.50 3.6
 4273 +16.4 4.0 101  80    00   rich +16.9   55.6 +14.6  -2.6  87.70 3.7
 4357 +17.4 4.2 102  80    00   rich +16.1   63.2 +14.2  -2.5  86.90 3.6
 4409 +18.4 4.2 102  90    00   rich +16.6   62.8 +13.9  -2.2  89.40 3.7
 4522 +19.8 4.3 101  90    00   rich +17.5   66.7 +14.0  -2.3  89.60 3.8
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Old 08-07-2006, 11:53 PM   #31
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should i get a real uppipe when i port match my manifold?
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Old 08-08-2006, 12:59 AM   #32
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awesome results my fellow Rhode islander! we should meet sometime
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Old 08-08-2006, 08:47 AM   #33
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Default cmj's plot

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Old 08-08-2006, 08:55 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by distorto
should i get a real uppipe when i port match my manifold?
as always there are tradeoffs.

the additional volume of the precat section of the up pipe will act like a mini resonator. this means it reduces the maximum pressure pulses and increases the minimum, effectively reducing the peak:average ratio.

in theory at least, this wil hurt spool, as described above. on the other hand, and for the same reasons, it will also help the max flow rate.

on the third hand, the change in diameter is not quite as smooth as i'd like it to be, and that introduces some turbulence, which is not good.

on the fourth hand, a gutted up pipe is the cheapest pipe around, it has a built in sheetmetal heatsheild, flex joint, and oem fitment.
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Old 08-08-2006, 01:12 PM   #35
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CMJ what intake do you use?
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Old 08-08-2006, 03:25 PM   #36
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Stock airbox and filter.
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Old 08-08-2006, 04:47 PM   #37
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Would 'pink' injectors have enough flow to support the vf23? And has anyone used a meth injection set-up with the 23?

This turbo looks enticing....especially since there is a local selling his soon. I just want to make sure that pinks (which he is selling as well) would flow enough to keep things safe and not be maxed out.
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Old 08-08-2006, 06:34 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasmusson14
Would 'pink' injectors have enough flow to support the vf23? And has anyone used a meth injection set-up with the 23?

This turbo looks enticing....especially since there is a local selling his soon. I just want to make sure that pinks (which he is selling as well) would flow enough to keep things safe and not be maxed out.
Well, ride is using the stock injectors

If you don't bump the fuel pressure you should have enough room with the pinks for medium boost levels but IMHO either bump the pressure or get larger injectors to run high boost levels with good overhead.
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Old 08-09-2006, 09:27 AM   #39
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i took cmj's 5th gear pull and plotted it against my 5th gear pull from the first post. some interesting things emerge:



(please note that to achieve good resolution the MAF #s are scaled by a factor of 5.)

now, at 3k rpm:

my MAP is 11.5-12 psi
cmj's MAP is 2 psi

my MAF is 3.3v
cmj's MAF is 3.1v

to get a ballpark estimate of power/torque differences i first referenced an old post of mine: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...35&postcount=7

3.10v ~99hp
3.30v ~122hp

this is a very simplistic airflow/power relationship but it serves the purpose.

referencing an equation relating hp and torque:
hp = torque (lb-ft) * rpm / 5252

solve for torque:
hp*5252/rpm = torque

plug and chug:
99hp*5252/3000 = 173ftlbs
122hp*5252/3000 = 214ftlbs

so remarkably, even though cmj is running 10psi less than i am at 3k rpms, he's only down about 40ftlbs. this shows how looking solely at MAP as an indicator of how "laggy" a turbo will feel is missing the big picture. to compare turbos MAF is a far better indicator of torque and power output at a particular rpm point. if you were looking solely at MAP you'd think his car would be a complete dog at that operating point, but the airflow shows it's not as bad as it first seems.

as a side note, what is helping cmj injest so much air is his much better flowing hotside. in a nutshell by getting the chamber more "empty" after the exhaust stroke he is better able to fill it on the intake stroke, despite a much lower gas density in the intake manifold.

cmj, what is your max mafv observed on the street? mine peaks regularly at 4.5v in the summer months. i suspect you pull more air than that.

ken
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Old 08-09-2006, 09:34 AM   #40
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I did the same thing, lol. Only difference is that I tossed in my MAF having converted it back to stock voltages. At a brief glance I was pulling more volts but I don't think I converted it properly so I scrapped the data. What I would like to do is recover my 4th order equations for MAFv->g/s so that we can plot g/s for all the runs in the thread.
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Old 08-09-2006, 09:47 AM   #41
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Ok, subscribed!!!!

Keep the data coming
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Old 08-09-2006, 09:53 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdvma
What I would like to do is recover my 4th order equations for MAFv->g/s so that we can plot g/s for all the runs in the thread.
courtesy of jeff s.

mass(g/s)=3.5906*mafv^3-4.0038*mafv^2+2.2571*mafv-0.4089
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Old 08-09-2006, 10:21 AM   #43
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Thanks, Ken. I just recaculated the equation for a 70mm intake (16% larger cross sectional area). Seems like my MAF has some turbulence issues, the car certainly didn't feel that choppy.



So if my scaling is correct you are showing some additional HP in the bottom end.

65mm = 3318 cubic mm
mass(g/s)=3.5906*mafv^3-4.0038*mafv^2+2.2571*mafv-0.4089

70mm = 3848 cubic mm
mass(g/s)=4.1651*mafv^3-4.6444*mafv^2+2.6182*mafv-0.4743
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Old 08-09-2006, 12:46 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000
cmj, what is your max mafv observed on the street? mine peaks regularly at 4.5v in the summer months. i suspect you pull more air than that.

ken
It hits 4.7v@19-20psi around 5600-6000rpm. Also this is 5th gear we are talking about. I suspect that if you and I floored it in 2nd gear@2k I would not catch you till 4th gear.

Chris
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Old 08-30-2006, 09:57 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdvma View Post
1 bar @ 3075
20psi @ 3373

3.0mafv @ 2770/6.8psi
3.5mafv @ 3195/16.8psi
4.0mafv @ 3546/22.1psi
After changing from the TXS top mount to the SSA front mount and upgrading the UTEC firmware to PID boost I have new numbers:

1 bar @ 3005 (same)
20 psi @ 3226 (~100 rpm decrease)

3.0mafv @ 2832/2.9psi (~100 rpm increase, ~4 psi decrease)
3.5mafv @ 3013/13.3psi (~100 rpm decrease, ~3 psi decrease)
4.0mafv @ ~3400/~22psi (~100 rpm decrease)

And running rich (but probably isn't a factor here)!

Code:
                          Knk Car  Car   Calc Map   MAF Target       WB 
 RPM   MAP  MAF  TPS MLP Cnt AFR Inj#1    VE  VE   Inj   AFR  IAT   AFR
       psia  V    %                mS      %   %    mS         C  
 2784  -6.7 2.35   8  00  0 14.9  2.87   93  92   3.41 14.7   30   14.74
 2798  -4.7 2.58  13  00  0 15.2  3.59   95  92   4.17 14.7   29   14.83
 2822  -2.2 2.74  19  00  0 14.9  4.02*  97  92   4.93 14.7   29   14.78
 2808  +0.4 2.90  38  10  0 14.9  4.72* 100  91   6.16 14.6   30   14.61
 2832  +1.9 2.96  80  10  0 16.1  5.15* 104  91   6.62 14.3   29   14.96
 2832  +2.9 3.01 101  20  0 14.9  5.40* 103  90   7.05 14.2   29   15.12
 2839  +3.7 3.05 101  20  0 13.9  5.67* 100  91   7.24 14.0   29   14.61
 2846  +4.5 3.05 101  20  0 13.1  6.10* 102  91   7.53 13.9   29   14.11
 2888  +5.3 3.11 101  30  0 12.5  6.49* 103  92   7.62 13.7   29   13.59
 2866  +6.2 3.21 101  30  0 12.4  6.87* 103  92   7.81 13.5   29   13.31
 2891  +7.2 3.31 101  30  0 rich  7.25* 100  93   8.98 13.3   29   13.06
 2923  +8.0 3.33 101  30  0 rich  7.61* 105  93   8.77 13.1   29   12.78
 2952  +9.0 3.33 101  40  0 rich  8.21* 102  93   8.68 12.6   29   12.56
 2989 +10.0 3.41 101  40  0 rich  8.92* 103  93   9.92 12.0   29   12.25
 3008 +11.0 3.47 101  50  0 rich  9.40* 101  93  10.21 11.8   29   11.71
 2976 +12.1 3.49 101  50  0 rich  9.90* 101  93  10.46 11.7   28   11.33
 3013 +13.3 3.54 101  50  0 rich 10.39*  99  93  10.78 11.5   29   11.14
 3005 +14.5 3.68 101  60  0 rich 10.93* 104  93  12.14 11.4   29   10.93
 3035 +15.5 3.70 101  60  0 rich 11.54* 100  94  12.20 11.3   29   10.68
 3106 +16.4 3.66 101  70  0 rich 12.01* 105  94  11.63 11.2   29   10.48
 3115 +17.4 3.68 101  70  0 rich 12.48* 105  95  11.97 11.2   28   10.23
 3138 +18.4 3.78 101  70  0 rich 13.00* 104  96  13.58 11.1   28    9.99
 3186 +19.0 3.82 101  80  0 rich 13.27*  94  96  12.43 11.1   28    9.86
 3226 +20.0 3.86 101  80  0 rich 13.59* 101  96  13.62 11.1   29    9.84
 3205 +20.2 3.82 101  80  0 rich 13.85*  95  96  13.02 11.1   29    9.79
 3229 +20.8 3.84 101  80  0 rich 13.97*  93  96  13.44 11.0   28    9.77
 3267 +21.5 3.84 101  90  0 rich 14.30*  95  96  14.19 11.0   28    9.73
 3330 +22.1 3.96 101  90  0 rich 14.36*  91  96  13.96 11.0   28    9.68
 3333 +22.3 3.86 101  90  0 rich 14.63*  97  96  13.26 11.0   28    9.64
 3370 +22.7 3.96 101  90  0 rich 14.73*  90  96  13.57 11.0   28    9.56
 3390 +22.7 3.86  75  90  0 rich 14.79*  95  96  13.89 11.0   28    9.55
 3397 +22.1 3.92  39  90  0 rich 14.57*  93  96  13.39 11.0   28    9.54
 3340  +9.8 2.86   0  40  0 rich  8.52*  80  92   5.71 13.3   28    9.37
 3447  -2.8 2.88   0  00  0 rich  7.23   36  87   6.78 14.7   28    9.99
 3346  -6.1 1.07   0  00  0 rich  7.23   10  87   0.79 14.7   29   10.71
 3346  -7.7 1.41   0  00  0 lean  7.23    4  87   1.13 14.7   29   13.20
 3340  -8.9 1.82   0  00  0 24.5  7.23   37  87   1.43 14.7   29   >25:1
Given the % error in RPM pickup I'd say that the difference is negligible but there is a definite decrease in pressure at those maf volts. So does a FMIC add "lag"? I'll leave that as an excersise to the reader

Edit:

I want to quote this because its definitely important:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000
looking solely at MAP as an indicator of how "laggy" a turbo will feel is missing the big picture. to compare turbos MAF is a far better indicator of torque and power output at a particular rpm point. if you were looking solely at MAP you'd think his car would be a complete dog at that operating point, but the airflow shows it's not as bad as it first seems.

Last edited by cdvma; 08-30-2006 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 08-31-2006, 06:57 AM   #46
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nice data, chris!



so i take it you're liking that front mount, eh?
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Old 08-31-2006, 09:23 AM   #47
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Yea the frontmount is great. Definitely feeling the increase in grunt and now I can replace the AC line
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Old 08-31-2006, 12:24 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000 View Post
i took cmj's 5th gear pull and plotted it against my 5th gear pull from the first post. some interesting things emerge:



(please note that to achieve good resolution the MAF #s are scaled by a factor of 5.)

now, at 3k rpm:

my MAP is 11.5-12 psi
cmj's MAP is 2 psi

my MAF is 3.3v
cmj's MAF is 3.1v

to get a ballpark estimate of power/torque differences i first referenced an old post of mine: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...35&postcount=7

3.10v ~99hp
3.30v ~122hp

this is a very simplistic airflow/power relationship but it serves the purpose.

referencing an equation relating hp and torque:
hp = torque (lb-ft) * rpm / 5252

solve for torque:
hp*5252/rpm = torque

plug and chug:
99hp*5252/3000 = 173ftlbs
122hp*5252/3000 = 214ftlbs

so remarkably, even though cmj is running 10psi less than i am at 3k rpms, he's only down about 40ftlbs. this shows how looking solely at MAP as an indicator of how "laggy" a turbo will feel is missing the big picture. to compare turbos MAF is a far better indicator of torque and power output at a particular rpm point. if you were looking solely at MAP you'd think his car would be a complete dog at that operating point, but the airflow shows it's not as bad as it first seems.

as a side note, what is helping cmj injest so much air is his much better flowing hotside. in a nutshell by getting the chamber more "empty" after the exhaust stroke he is better able to fill it on the intake stroke, despite a much lower gas density in the intake manifold.

cmj, what is your max mafv observed on the street? mine peaks regularly at 4.5v in the summer months. i suspect you pull more air than that.

ken
are these MAFV you are using the actual MAFV readings or modified MAFV readings
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Old 08-31-2006, 12:59 PM   #49
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3063 +4.7 3.2 98 30 00 11.6 +32.5 18.5 +21.1 +1.8 82.90 2.5 11.64

so according the log line above at 3063 rpm and 4.7 lbs of boost I am making

110 hp at 188.305 ft lbs of tq

that doesn't seem all the correct given I am on a PNP VF39 with a smaller hotside then your P20 but yet at less boost at same rpm I fall right between your and cmj

unless your using mod MAFV then my car would be the dog it feels like as I am in the middle of redoing my maps and they are all screwed up

Last edited by Sharky NRK; 08-31-2006 at 01:01 PM. Reason: correction
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Old 08-31-2006, 01:02 PM   #50
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At 3k RPM Ken stated he is making 3.3 MAF volts, you are making 3.2. That would put you at less torque than him.

Also he was pulling in 5th gear to make that much boost, I bet that log line isn't from 5th. You should make way more boost than that in the 3k area. It does make sence because you don't have as much load on the motor so you are making less power than Ken is and the Green is way bigger so at that low RPM you will be pushing a bit more MAF volts.
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To those who upgraded their TMIC:Earlier turbo spool? Different spool characteristic? garie Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 6 12-07-2005 01:57 AM


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