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Old 10-24-2001, 07:28 PM   #1
davidm_sh
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Default Air-to-water intercooler installed!!

Ok I finally got everything I want on the car now and all that is left is too head down to Cobb to get it all Unichip tuned (hopefully). Here is the current setup:

-VF22 @ 15psi
-air-to-water intercooler with MASSIVE heat front heat exchanger =) (bigger is cooler is better ...right? [heh])
-MRT 3" turbo back
-Blitz DSBC
-lightened pulley set (crank + alternator)

Here are some pics of a stock looking intercooler setup and my air-to-water setup:








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Old 10-24-2001, 07:40 PM   #2
blkwag
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15psi on a VF22?

You didn't state any fuel enrichment?

Any track times?

Dyno #'s?

Product info?
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Old 10-24-2001, 07:58 PM   #3
davidm_sh
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I JUST got it all done today so I don't really have any dyno or track numbers? I won't have any track numbers until next spring when the tracks open up again. I will post my dyno #'s when and if I get down to Cobb to get it tuned.

As far as 15psi on the VF22 I am at 6000ft. above sea level and generally you can get away with running 1-2lbs. more up here becuase of the barometric difference from sea level so 15psi up here = ~13-13.5psi at sea level. PLUS I am also running 93 octane up here as well... only 1 place in town that sells it (usually highest you can get and need at altitude is 91). I am also going off of Imprezer running a tad over 16psi on his VF22 with stock ECU when he ran his 13.2 before the TECII.

This intercooler is available through SubySports @ www.subysports.com. Now keep in mind that the kit does NOT come with that big of a heat exchanger for the front. That heat exchanger was made for a 600hp V8 Forced Induction application and I had to cut the bumper a bit to get it too fit in there. The kit comes with two smaller heat exchangers that require no cutting or anything like that.
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Old 10-24-2001, 07:59 PM   #4
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What driving conditions are you building your car for? Under sustained driving conditions, won't the air-water IC lose significant cooling compared to an air-to-air (at least that has been my experience).
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Old 10-24-2001, 08:07 PM   #5
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boostit - The core of the heat exchanging side is based off of tubes made by a company called laminova. As far as losing efficiency over extended periods of time driving I don't really think so. I mean if you are talking freeway than I think it's about the same since you aren't into the boost as much.

Now if you are talking road track or somthing where you are beating the car non-stop I think the system might have the potential to get heat soaked after a bit. I mean the best part of this system is driving in town at 0-30mph I think. The TMIC gets very heat soaked when you are sitting in traffic and waiting at red lights where as this system does not... especially with my little extra-sized heat exchanger =). I mean there are trade offs to air-to-water vs. air-to-air. With air-to-water you won't get very large temperature delta swings compared too a air-to-air; what I mean is the system will take longer to heat soak than a air-to-air. ON the other hand though the air-to-water will also take longer too cool down.

Mainly for the WRX application I don't like the idea of the stock TMIC sitting over the turbo at low speeds in town and this eliminates that. I was seriously considering a FMIC, like from Cobb, but the cost was almost 2x, you have to cut your bumper a bit more (not too big of a deal), you lose your fog lights, and there ain't no way you can't tell me that the extra 7-9 ft. of plumbing is not going to negatively affect your throttle response =). Plus I would much rather have my front heat exchanger (of <$150) get dinged up and possibly crushed in some kind of accident vs. a $1500 FMIC =). This is just my opinion and thought process on the whole thing though.

I am mainly just driving this car as my daily driver around town with probably 3-5 1000 mile road trips a year. I go the track maybe once or twice a year so I might put a resovoir tank in it too ice down the coolant a bit for that =)... but will have to see.
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Old 10-24-2001, 08:17 PM   #6
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Yeah, you probably went the most cost-effective path. And I would agree that having the IC right above the engine and turbo leaves something to be desired.

I do wonder how long it takes for the A2W IC to lose efficiency under stop and go driving conditions. Do you have any thermo couples that you could hook up and evaluate before and after cooling temps using the A2W IC? I would be very curious to see whether and when general driving conditions cause the IC to lose efficiency, and how much. Someone has to break new ground and provide the data for everyone else right? :-)
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Old 10-24-2001, 08:28 PM   #7
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boostit - I can tell you this much as far as data collection. The manufacturer of the kit did some testing on the first car and the most extreme case was this: They did about 3 hard 1,2,3 gear to redline runs back-to-back. On the third run they saw temps going into the intercooler of 320F and temps coming out of the intercooler of 110F. That was with the heat exchangers that the kit came with. THis was done on a 75-80F day also.

I might ask the manufacturer if I can get a hold of some temp. probes but for now I am just going to run the system for a while and see if any "issues" come up =).
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Old 10-24-2001, 08:59 PM   #8
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Sounds promising. I will be interested in hearing (reading?) any results of further testing, as well as your general impressions after getting everything settled.
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Old 10-24-2001, 10:46 PM   #9
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Default 93 octane in the springs

hey were can we get 93 octane here in colorado springs, i have been looking all over. thanks for your help.

ps, if you see a silver wrx with red calipers, take it easy on me, your setup sound killer. my unichip come soon however....

cnstman
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Old 10-24-2001, 11:33 PM   #10
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cnstman - It's the farmcrest on the corner of Centennial and 30th St. I KNOW it's not a big name place but I know quite a few other forced induced cars that get 93 octane there.

Hey do you know any of the other WRX's in town? Just curious; Andy(silver WRX with P1's)
Paul (Red with ski rack and MRT exhaust)
Bob (Yellow WRX lowerd with anthracite color wheels)
Bill (Blue Wagon WRX)
Mike (Black with yellow trim WRX)?

Just curious.
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Old 10-24-2001, 11:39 PM   #11
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Hey, did you kow that your car went from Blue to Black?!?!?

If I installed one on my car, what color would it turn?

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Old 10-24-2001, 11:41 PM   #12
cnstman
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Default i don't know them

i have seen the red with ski rack, and there used to be a blue one at golds where i workout, but don't see it anymore, and never got to meet the owner

i don't really see many WRXes here, it's kinda cool. makes me still feel special about mine.

however i went to gleaneagle to golf the other day and i saw 3 of them there!!!! weird.

do all farmcrests have 93? i live close to the one on academy and i-25. well i think it's a farmcrest anyway.

where is 30th and centennial? i don't know the city that well yet, but it would be worth a drive to find it for some good gas!

thanks cnstman
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Old 10-25-2001, 02:57 AM   #13
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The other farm crest stores have 93 leaded, NOT unleaded. The Centenial store is the only 93 unleaded in town.

Larry
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Old 10-25-2001, 09:38 AM   #14
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i have seen the red with ski rack, and there used to be a blue one at golds where i workout, but don't see it anymore, and never got to meet the owner

That was me. I've since moved back up to the Boulder area. Sorry I missed you.

Dave - Nice setup. Stay on your toes, I'm nipping at your heals. My VF22 shipped yesterday. We'll have to do a comparison run between our cars. Cheers.

Diz (aka Paul)
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Old 10-25-2001, 09:54 AM   #15
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Default i did not have mine yet

mine was on order when i saw yours at golds. really made me count the days until i got mine by seeing yours every day!!!

what wheels do you have, those are cool.

i will check out the farmcrest and see what some 93 does for my wrx

thanks guys! cnstman
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Old 10-25-2001, 10:03 AM   #16
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This looks like the jc sports kit is this their new front?
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Old 10-25-2001, 10:09 AM   #17
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Default yeah, what's up with the color switch

Hmm....missed it myself the first time....


WHAT'S UP WITH THE COLOR CHANGE? Did you have to just take a picture of a blue one in the front to get a before pic?
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Old 10-25-2001, 02:22 PM   #18
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JC Sports bought a lot of parts made elsewhere and then put their name on them. Pulleys, intercoolers, exhaust, strut bars, etc...

This air/water IC is bought direct from the manufacturer by SubySports who has nothing to do with JC Sports.

Larry
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Old 10-25-2001, 02:24 PM   #19
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Hey this looks good for those people putting custom kits together. Any thougts.
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Old 10-25-2001, 02:30 PM   #20
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You should regulate the activation of the pump with the Autospeed water-sprayer controller (it can be used to activate an A/L pump, also). As far as losing efficiency vs. an A/A, HA. A/L has always been superior, but the complexity and space requirements put it outside the realm of feasibility for most cars. This makes the assumption that you properly size the reservoir, which most places do not do correctly. BTW, that core looks undersized, the one Spearco recommended to me five months ago was about twice that size. In their opinion, you optimize the size of the core so that you can have as much thermal mass as possible.

Just to provide some data from that time, the cost of implementation using a fluidyne radiator, as well as bronze face seal pump, all stainless hoses, very large core (good to 800cfm), 4 gallon reservoir and controller hardware was around 1300.

Another idea on this front is to simply have the stock intercooler enclosed (making it a huge A/L core) and then attaching said stuff. That should run closer to 700, depending.

Last edited by Conduit; 10-25-2001 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 10-25-2001, 02:34 PM   #21
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WOW! that looks REALLY nice!!

I had pretty much ruled out the idea of an a2w, for fear that it would look like a plumbers convention gone wrong, but that looks VERY clean...

I like it a lot! wish I could spare the loot...
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Old 10-25-2001, 04:07 PM   #22
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cditto - =), Yah I took a picture of a stock blue WRX wagon and then my black WRX sedan... so know the intercooler doesn't magically change the color of the car [heh].

bill harvey - imprezzrs.com was right in that JC Sports simply bought these supplies from the manufacturer and slapped their name on them. Braden goes through the manufacturer; totally aside and away from JC Sports activities.

Conduit - Actually it's kind of funny that you/Spearco thinks that the front heat excahnger is undersized becuase I got this from a friend and he told me it was a prototype/soon-to-be-used on a 600hp V8 supercharger application utilizing the same intercooling technology. I guess though that superchargers do generate quite a bit less heat than turbos but this was about as big as I could get... and want =). Maybe in the summer I will add a resovoir ... but that would be more for the drag strip and some ice [heh].

Everyone else thanks for the comments and let me know if you have any other questions about it.
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Old 10-25-2001, 04:57 PM   #23
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Dave, I saw you over at Suby Sports and you forgot to log braden out when you posted

I figure the efficiency is 72% based on the temps you mentioned
Quote:
...going into the intercooler of 320F and temps coming out of the intercooler of 110F. That was with the heat exchangers that the kit came with. THis was done on a 75-80F
And, the <1psi pressure drop accross the laminova tubes is a real plus!

For the guys doing the home brew turbo kits for the RS/Lagacy, there will be one later that makes the turbo to IC pipe ine up better.

Larry
www.wrx-impreza.com
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Old 10-25-2001, 06:03 PM   #24
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Thanks for clearing things up guys.
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Old 10-25-2001, 06:32 PM   #25
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I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that the front heat exchanger was small, just that the A/L core was small. What's its CFM limit before efficiency goes out the window? As a point of reference, the PE turbos flow 635cfm...
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