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Old 08-15-2006, 12:13 AM   #26
di2co
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yes use distilled, regular water will leave mineral deposits when it evaporates.

Jacob
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Old 08-15-2006, 12:18 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mycal
I just had my car tuned on and off 100% meth with a SMC kit for WRX. Steve there said running strait meth can cause long term seal and diaphram swelling and failure in the pump. New rubber compounds are in the works to be released in a month or so.
My results IIRC (dyno printer down, will get sheets soon.) 2 hours of pulls. Mustang dyno, 112*F ambient indoors.
91 oct pump only 336whp
91 & 100% meth 407 whp
100oct only 400 whp
100oct & meth 480 whp

Now as far as why my pump never failed on the dyno (hood open) but would after 1/2 hour of driving (hood shut) rez located is the stock WW rez bottle same location.
I tonight waited until the pump failed, opened the hood and looked at the meth in the rez. It was the start of boiling. About a bubble a second.
So, guess I found my problem and need to get a STI rez for the trunk.
Wouldn't want to have it start boiling and stop spraying in the middle of a run.

Wow, I never had any problems like that and I live in the same climate as you (look up china lake naws california). It is possible to cavitate a pump (even a positive displacement pump) if the liquid is very close to boiling. It will flash in the pump suction due to the lower dynamic pressure. Also, mixing water will only help. The methanol will still boil at the same point and evaporate at the same rate. It helps to have some water in there because when water evaporates it's going to carry away more heat and help keep things cool. If you mix water and meth at any ratio, put it on a stove (don't actually do this unless you are a firefighter), and heat it up to say 150F, and then hold your head over the pot and smell the meth vapors. The water will evaporate quicker at that elevated temperature but the meth will still boil at whatever saturation temperature is for your altitude.

Jacob

Last edited by di2co; 08-15-2006 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 08-15-2006, 02:40 AM   #28
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^^^ thanks
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Old 08-15-2006, 05:58 PM   #29
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I meant to do some sort of controlled test a couple weeks back. We had a hot spell that lasted several weeks, where we were seeing temps in the 100+ F nearly every day. One day we had 112 F (actual temp). I was working in the garage one day and inadvertently left a regular plastic distilled water jug (the milk jug like containers you buy distilled water in) that was half full of 100% meth (no water) with the slip-on plastic cap slipped on, in the full sun (100+ F). It sat there for 6 hours. When I got home, the jug sat there as pretty as could be, it did not even pop the cap off. I thought about drilling a hole the same size as the one in the cap of the trunk intercooler container in the STi, just to see if it would evaporate to any perceptible degree in that sort of heat (after a discussion in a separate thread). I never got around to it, though my gut tells me that these issues are WAY overblown. Maybe when I get home and settled, I will try it.
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Old 08-15-2006, 07:48 PM   #30
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I've never actually done this but I bet the temp in my trunk here after my car has been parked in the sun in 115F heat for a couple of hours would be close to 200F. If I was going to have a space fill up with meth vapors and possibly catch fire it would be under the hood with the "firewall" inbetween me and the fire as apposed to a piece of foam rubber. With that said I'm planning on getting a spec-c tank and having my smc pump and level switch mounted on it since my smc kit won't work on my 06.

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Old 08-17-2006, 11:31 AM   #31
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It's also not the methanol in the tank boiling, it's either in the line or in the pump. It would take years for the meth in the tank to reach 160 degrees. Keep in mind the hot air under the hood isn't the same as a flame under that pot on the stove - and we all know how long it takes a pot of water to boil.
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Old 08-17-2006, 12:05 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteDucati
It's also not the methanol in the tank boiling, it's either in the line or in the pump. It would take years for the meth in the tank to reach 160 degrees. Keep in mind the hot air under the hood isn't the same as a flame under that pot on the stove - and we all know how long it takes a pot of water to boil.
Is it more like audio tapes that I had which melted in my car? Is it more like a bottle of coke in the fridge? Or maybe in the freezer? A bottle of coke might take an hour or two to get to 45F in a fridge, but in a freezer it might take 20 minutes(because of the bigger temp difference). Imagine that it's already hot out(100F or so), and then you get in the car and turn it on. You sit at a light, and the temp under the hood is 200+(if not much hotter in many engine bays at certain times). 100F to 200+F is a much bigger difference then a room temperature coke, and the temp in the freezer. Maybe the alc would heat up faster because of the larger difference in temp? Maybe the alc would heat up quicker because the temp of alc can be changed more easily then the temp of coke? Maybe all of the above?

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Old 08-17-2006, 01:15 PM   #33
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This is a little misleading. I have seen my 50/50 meth / Water temp sensor reach 147 deg that was prior to the installation of my spt heat shield. Now it usually stays 100-120 deg.
So it wouldnt take years to reach the boiling point, there are just a lot of factors that would need to be figured in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteDucati
It's also not the methanol in the tank boiling, it's either in the line or in the pump. It would take years for the meth in the tank to reach 160 degrees. Keep in mind the hot air under the hood isn't the same as a flame under that pot on the stove - and we all know how long it takes a pot of water to boil.
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Old 08-17-2006, 03:26 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hippy
Is it more like audio tapes that I had which melted in my car? Is it more like a bottle of coke in the fridge? Or maybe in the freezer? A bottle of coke might take an hour or two to get to 45F in a fridge, but in a freezer it might take 20 minutes(because of the bigger temp difference). Imagine that it's already hot out(100F or so), and then you get in the car and turn it on. You sit at a light, and the temp under the hood is 200+(if not much hotter in many engine bays at certain times). 100F to 200+F is a much bigger difference then a room temperature coke, and the temp in the freezer. Maybe the alc would heat up faster because of the larger difference in temp? Maybe the alc would heat up quicker because the temp of alc can be changed more easily then the temp of coke? Maybe all of the above?

peace
Dude - I HAVE THE ISSUE OF MY SMC NOT WORKING ON REALLY HOTTTTT DAYS! IT'S NOT THE METHANOL IN THE TANK BOILING! And after some driving (air flow through the scoop, under the car, etc) it begins to work again. Sometimes it's within minutes, sometimes as long as 20 minutes. But one thing is certain, the methanol in the resevoir was never too hot to stick my finger into it - 'cause I tried.
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Old 08-17-2006, 03:29 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dibblejr
So it wouldnt take years to reach the boiling point, there are just a lot of factors that would need to be figured in.
True - and there's probably a simple online calculator that would tell you how long it would take to heat a certain amount of fluid to a certain temperature - but it's also important to realize the underhood temps don't seem to be nearly hot enough unless you're stopped or crawling. Which is why I believe it's the methanol in the line (or pump) that is the issue.
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Old 08-17-2006, 03:49 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteDucati
Dude - I HAVE THE ISSUE OF MY SMC NOT WORKING ON REALLY HOTTTTT DAYS! IT'S NOT THE METHANOL IN THE TANK BOILING! And after some driving (air flow through the scoop, under the car, etc) it begins to work again. Sometimes it's within minutes, sometimes as long as 20 minutes. But one thing is certain, the methanol in the resevoir was never too hot to stick my finger into it - 'cause I tried.
Wait, so what was the problem if it wasn't the meth? The pump itself doesn't like the heat?
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Old 08-17-2006, 05:33 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djerickd
Wait, so what was the problem if it wasn't the meth? The pump itself doesn't like the heat?
It appears to be that braided steel line - that heats up like a mofo. Try touching it sometime - you'll burn yourself. It gets hot like the intake manifold. Every drop of radiant heat gets absorbed by it. But the methanol in the tank has never been hot enough to make me think it was any where near 160 degrees.

After the first time I had issues (several months ago), I went home, popped the hood and the pump would run but register zero for pressure - it also had that "dry" sound to it. As soon as I disconnected the line and hit the test button, meth was flowing. I'm installing two 6.5" fans to the top of my IC. Since the line for the meth is below that, I'll see if cooler air blowing across half the length does anything for this.
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Old 08-17-2006, 05:42 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by di2co
I've never actually done this but I bet the temp in my trunk here after my car has been parked in the sun in 115F heat for a couple of hours would be close to 200F.
This is the only one I could find with numbers this high, I'm sure others are out there. But I'd bet an enclosed space wouldn't heat up as much as the interior considering the sun beating down plays a HUGE role (otherwise those stupid sun shades wouldn't work).

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Old 08-17-2006, 06:16 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteDucati
Dude - I HAVE THE ISSUE OF MY SMC NOT WORKING ON REALLY HOTTTTT DAYS! IT'S NOT THE METHANOL IN THE TANK BOILING! And after some driving (air flow through the scoop, under the car, etc) it begins to work again. Sometimes it's within minutes, sometimes as long as 20 minutes. But one thing is certain, the methanol in the resevoir was never too hot to stick my finger into it - 'cause I tried.
It's not about boiling. Someone just braught up the boiling temp of alc to show that the temp of the liquid isn't that hot. Course another person said he saw a little boiling. It's about the systems not flowing when they should from the pump being too hot(in my mind at least)

Once a pump gets to a certain temp, a breaker in it turns the pump off so it won't break from being too hot(or something like that, at least with some pumps). If the breaker didn't work, the pump might catch fire, and since it's pumping meth.........boom. While a pump works, it will generally get hotter. The higher the pressure, and the hotter the ambient temp, the quicker this will generally happen. This obviously isn't what we want to happen though.

A shurflo pump turns off when it gets to 180F, even though smc kits don't use shureflow pumps(Same difference). If the liquid starts out at 100F, it would be almost like having an ambient temp is 100F, since the pump is getting cooled by hotter liquid then b4. The only difference is that the real ambient temp still plays a role in how quickly the pump heats up when working and cools down when not working. It just doesn't play such a large role. So, we have a pump running 90F liquid and onother pump with 135F liquid. Which pump do you think can run longer at a given pressure and flow before getting to 180F? Do you think it would make a difference? What if one was running alc and one was running water(since water might keep it cooler for longer)? What if the pump was 170F and was running all alc(since alc boils below that)?

You might say, what does this mean to the average injection user? We know if the pump gets too hot, the system will not produce flow, and therefore be useless. This should never happen. We also know that if the liquid and/or pump are cooler(and maybe water instead of alc), it will take more time for the pump to reach the point where it gets too hot, and it will cool down quicker making it able to last longer on the next run. With this in mind, the engine compartment is the worste area of the car to mount an injection tank and pump. Kit makers put tanks and/or pumps in the engine compartment for ease of install and to help cut costs(shorter tubing), but this imo is not good.

peace

Last edited by hippy; 08-17-2006 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 08-17-2006, 08:40 PM   #40
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Pump NEVER stopped making noise - ever. It's like it lost it's prime 'cause the moment you crack the lines and hit the button you make a nice mess. Tomorrow I'll know if my TMIC fan rig will stop this from happening.

Today I was stuck on the Major Deegan heading towards the George Washington Bridge for a solid hour. The meth crapped out quickly - and it took an honest 10 minutes at highway speeds before it came back to life. Temperature outside was 79 according to XM radio's NY traffic report.
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Old 08-17-2006, 08:51 PM   #41
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The pump could have boiled the alc, but I'm not really sure what this would do.

peace
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Old 08-18-2006, 01:10 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteDucati
Pump NEVER stopped making noise - ever. It's like it lost it's prime 'cause the moment you crack the lines and hit the button you make a nice mess. Tomorrow I'll know if my TMIC fan rig will stop this from happening.

Today I was stuck on the Major Deegan heading towards the George Washington Bridge for a solid hour. The meth crapped out quickly - and it took an honest 10 minutes at highway speeds before it came back to life. Temperature outside was 79 according to XM radio's NY traffic report.

As I said before it is possible to cavitate the pump if the liquid is close to saturation temperature since dynamic pressure at the pump suction is lower. The boiling point of a liquid drops with pressure. Saturation temperature also increases with pressure so I doubt it would flash to vapor in the line @100psi. I never had this problem but you might want to try wrapping the tank with reflective tape or insulating it in some way and see if it helps. I'll try and see if I can find a graph with saturation temperature and pressure data for methanol.

Jacob
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Old 08-18-2006, 01:15 PM   #43
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I never thought that the difference in power between tunes for 50-50 and 100% meth would be so high. Were you dealing with maxed IDC, or was that an honest gain due to octane/knock resistence? I am curious about the difference in the maps between the 100% meth and 50-50 tunes.
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Old 08-18-2006, 01:32 PM   #44
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Here it is sorry the table wouldn't fit and I'm at work so I can't spend too much time with it but everything is in the order listed at the top of the table.


Data on Saturation Curve
Temperature (F) Pressure (psia) Density (lbm/ft3) Volume (ft3/lbm) Internal Energy (Btu/lbm) Enthalpy (Btu/lbm) Entropy (Btu/lbm*R) Cv (Btu/lbm*R) Cp (Btu/lbm*R) Sound Spd. (ft/s) Joule-Thomson (F/psia) Viscosity (lbm/ft*s) Therm. Cond. (W/m*K) Phase
47.667 1.00000 0.0059856 167.07 419.44 450.38 0.89892 0.63355 0.76864 951.08 20.790 undefined undefined vapor
69.893 2.0000 0.011534 86.701 423.68 455.79 0.86721 0.68922 0.84277 967.50 12.007 undefined undefined vapor
83.932 3.0000 0.016925 59.084 426.33 459.15 0.84894 0.72076 0.88672 977.41 8.6982 undefined undefined vapor
94.407 4.0000 0.022217 45.010 428.29 461.63 0.83611 0.74234 0.91793 984.51 6.9205 undefined undefined vapor
102.85 5.0000 0.027439 36.445 429.86 463.60 0.82623 0.75853 0.94210 990.03 5.7976 undefined undefined vapor
109.96 6.0000 0.032605 30.670 431.17 465.24 0.81822 0.77135 0.96182 994.54 5.0186 undefined undefined vapor
116.14 7.0000 0.037726 26.507 432.30 466.66 0.81147 0.78190 0.97849 998.32 4.4435 undefined undefined vapor
121.61 8.0000 0.042811 23.359 433.29 467.89 0.80566 0.79080 0.99295 1001.6 4.0001 undefined undefined vapor
126.53 9.0000 0.047864 20.893 434.18 469.00 0.80054 0.79848 1.0057 1004.4 3.6469 undefined undefined vapor
131.01 10.000 0.052890 18.907 434.98 470.00 0.79599 0.80521 1.0172 1006.9 3.3582 undefined undefined vapor
135.13 11.000 0.057891 17.274 435.72 470.90 0.79187 0.81119 1.0276 1009.2 3.1175 undefined undefined vapor
138.95 12.000 0.062872 15.905 436.39 471.74 0.78813 0.81656 1.0372 1011.2 2.9134 undefined undefined vapor
142.52 13.000 0.067834 14.742 437.02 472.51 0.78469 0.82143 1.0460 1013.1 2.7379 undefined undefined vapor
145.86 14.000 0.072779 13.740 437.60 473.22 0.78151 0.82588 1.0543 1014.7 2.5853 undefined undefined vapor
149.01 15.000 0.077709 12.869 438.15 473.89 0.77856 0.82997 1.0620 1016.3 2.4513 undefined undefined vapor
151.98 16.000 0.082624 12.103 438.66 474.52 0.77580 0.83377 1.0694 1017.7 2.3325 undefined undefined vapor
154.81 17.000 0.087528 11.425 439.14 475.11 0.77320 0.83730 1.0763 1019.0 2.2265 undefined undefined vapor
157.50 18.000 0.092420 10.820 439.60 475.66 0.77076 0.84060 1.0829 1020.3 2.1312 undefined undefined vapor
160.08 19.000 0.097301 10.277 440.03 476.19 0.76846 0.84370 1.0892 1021.4 2.0450 undefined undefined vapor
162.54 20.000 0.10217 9.7874 440.44 476.69 0.76627 0.84663 1.0952 1022.4 1.9667 undefined undefined vapor
164.90 21.000 0.10704 9.3427 440.83 477.16 0.76419 0.84940 1.1011 1023.4 1.8951 undefined undefined vapor
167.17 22.000 0.11189 8.9374 441.20 477.61 0.76221 0.85203 1.1067 1024.4 1.8295 undefined undefined vapor
169.36 23.000 0.11674 8.5663 441.56 478.04 0.76031 0.85454 1.1121 1025.2 1.7691 undefined undefined vapor
171.47 24.000 0.12158 8.2253 441.90 478.45 0.75850 0.85693 1.1174 1026.0 1.7132 undefined undefined vapor
173.51 25.000 0.12641 7.9108 442.23 478.85 0.75676 0.85923 1.1225 1026.8 1.6614 undefined undefined vapor
175.48 26.000 0.13124 7.6198 442.54 479.23 0.75509 0.86143 1.1274 1027.5 1.6132 undefined undefined vapor
177.39 27.000 0.13606 7.3497 442.84 479.59 0.75348 0.86355 1.1323 1028.2 1.5683 undefined undefined vapor
179.25 28.000 0.14088 7.0984 443.13 479.94 0.75193 0.86559 1.1370 1028.9 1.5262 undefined undefined vapor
181.05 29.000 0.14569 6.8640 443.41 480.27 0.75044 0.86756 1.1416 1029.5 1.4868 undefined undefined vapor
182.80 30.000 0.15050 6.6447 443.68 480.60 0.74899 0.86946 1.1461 1030.0 1.4498 undefined undefined vapor
184.50 31.000 0.15530 6.4392 443.94 480.91 0.74759 0.87131 1.1505 1030.6 1.4150 undefined undefined vapor
186.16 32.000 0.16010 6.2461 444.20 481.21 0.74624 0.87310 1.1549 1031.1 1.3821 undefined undefined vapor
187.78 33.000 0.16490 6.0644 444.44 481.50 0.74492 0.87484 1.1591 1031.6 1.3510 undefined undefined vapor
189.35 34.000 0.16969 5.8931 444.67 481.78 0.74365 0.87654 1.1633 1032.0 1.3216 undefined undefined vapor
190.89 35.000 0.17448 5.7313 444.90 482.05 0.74241 0.87819 1.1674 1032.5 1.2937 undefined undefined vapor
192.40 36.000 0.17927 5.5783 445.12 482.31 0.74120 0.87980 1.1715 1032.9 1.2672 undefined undefined vapor
193.87 37.000 0.18405 5.4333 445.34 482.56 0.74003 0.88137 1.1755 1033.3 1.2420 undefined undefined vapor
195.31 38.000 0.18883 5.2956 445.55 482.81 0.73889 0.88290 1.1794 1033.6 1.2180 undefined undefined vapor
196.72 39.000 0.19362 5.1649 445.75 483.05 0.73777 0.88440 1.1833 1034.0 1.1951 undefined undefined vapor
198.09 40.000 0.19839 5.0405 445.94 483.28 0.73669 0.88587 1.1872 1034.3 1.1733 undefined undefined vapor
199.44 41.000 0.20317 4.9220 446.13 483.50 0.73562 0.88732 1.1910 1034.6 1.1524 undefined undefined vapor
200.77 42.000 0.20795 4.8089 446.32 483.72 0.73459 0.88873 1.1947 1034.9 1.1324 undefined undefined vapor
202.07 43.000 0.21272 4.7010 446.50 483.93 0.73358 0.89012 1.1985 1035.2 1.1132 undefined undefined vapor
203.34 44.000 0.21749 4.5978 446.67 484.13 0.73258 0.89148 1.2021 1035.5 1.0948 undefined undefined vapor
204.59 45.000 0.22227 4.4991 446.84 484.33 0.73162 0.89282 1.2058 1035.7 1.0772 undefined undefined vapor
205.82 46.000 0.22704 4.4046 447.01 484.53 0.73067 0.89414 1.2094 1035.9 1.0603 undefined undefined vapor
207.03 47.000 0.23181 4.3139 447.17 484.71 0.72974 0.89544 1.2130 1036.2 1.0440 undefined undefined vapor
208.22 48.000 0.23658 4.2269 447.33 484.90 0.72883 0.89672 1.2165 1036.4 1.0283 undefined undefined vapor
209.38 49.000 0.24135 4.1434 447.48 485.07 0.72793 0.89797 1.2201 1036.6 1.0132 undefined undefined vapor
210.53 50.000 0.24612 4.0631 447.63 485.25 0.72706 0.89922 1.2236 1036.7 0.99863 undefined undefined vapor
211.66 51.000 0.25088 3.9859 447.77 485.42 0.72620 0.90044 1.2270 1036.9 0.98458 undefined undefined vapor
212.77 52.000 0.25565 3.9116 447.92 485.58 0.72535 0.90165 1.2305 1037.1 0.97102 undefined undefined vapor
213.86 53.000 0.26042 3.8399 448.05 485.74 0.72452 0.90284 1.2339 1037.2 0.95792 undefined undefined vapor
214.94 54.000 0.26519 3.7709 448.19 485.90 0.72371 0.90402 1.2373 1037.3 0.94525 undefined undefined vapor
216.00 55.000 0.26996 3.7043 448.32 486.05 0.72291 0.90519 1.2407 1037.5 0.93300 undefined undefined vapor
217.05 56.000 0.27473 3.6400 448.45 486.19 0.72212 0.90634 1.2441 1037.6 0.92114 undefined undefined vapor
218.08 57.000 0.27950 3.5779 448.57 486.34 0.72135 0.90748 1.2474 1037.7 0.90965 undefined undefined vapor
219.10 58.000 0.28426 3.5178 448.70 486.48 0.72058 0.90861 1.2508 1037.8 0.89852 undefined undefined vapor
220.10 59.000 0.28903 3.4598 448.82 486.62 0.71983 0.90972 1.2541 1037.9 0.88773 undefined undefined vapor
221.09 60.000 0.29381 3.4036 448.93 486.75 0.71910 0.91082 1.2574 1038.0 0.87725 undefined undefined vapor
222.06 61.000 0.29858 3.3492 449.05 486.88 0.71837 0.91192 1.2607 1038.0 0.86709 undefined undefined vapor
223.03 62.000 0.30335 3.2965 449.16 487.01 0.71765 0.91300 1.2639 1038.1 0.85722 undefined undefined vapor
223.98 63.000 0.30812 3.2455 449.27 487.13 0.71695 0.91407 1.2672 1038.2 0.84763 undefined undefined vapor
224.91 64.000 0.31290 3.1960 449.37 487.25 0.71625 0.91514 1.2704 1038.2 0.83830 undefined undefined vapor
225.84 65.000 0.31767 3.1479 449.48 487.37 0.71557 0.91619 1.2737 1038.3 0.82924 undefined undefined vapor
226.75 66.000 0.32245 3.1013 449.58 487.48 0.71489 0.91724 1.2769 1038.3 0.82042 undefined undefined vapor
227.66 67.000 0.32722 3.0560 449.68 487.59 0.71422 0.91828 1.2801 1038.3 0.81183 undefined undefined vapor
228.55 68.000 0.33200 3.0120 449.78 487.70 0.71357 0.91930 1.2833 1038.3 0.80347 undefined undefined vapor
229.43 69.000 0.33678 2.9693 449.87 487.81 0.71292 0.92033 1.2865 1038.4 0.79532 undefined undefined vapor
230.31 70.000 0.34156 2.9277 449.96 487.91 0.71228 0.92134 1.2896 1038.4 0.78738 undefined undefined vapor
231.17 71.000 0.34634 2.8873 450.06 488.02 0.71164 0.92234 1.2928 1038.4 0.77964 undefined undefined vapor
232.02 72.000 0.35113 2.8480 450.14 488.11 0.71102 0.92334 1.2960 1038.4 0.77210 undefined undefined vapor
232.86 73.000 0.35591 2.8097 450.23 488.21 0.71040 0.92434 1.2991 1038.4 0.76473 undefined undefined vapor
233.70 74.000 0.36070 2.7724 450.32 488.31 0.70979 0.92532 1.3023 1038.3 0.75755 undefined undefined vapor
234.52 75.000 0.36549 2.7361 450.40 488.40 0.70919 0.92630 1.3054 1038.3 0.75053 undefined undefined vapor
235.34 76.000 0.37028 2.7007 450.48 488.49 0.70860 0.92727 1.3085 1038.3 0.74368 undefined undefined vapor
236.15 77.000 0.37507 2.6662 450.56 488.58 0.70801 0.92824 1.3117 1038.3 0.73698 undefined undefined vapor
236.94 78.000 0.37986 2.6325 450.64 488.66 0.70743 0.92920 1.3148 1038.2 0.73044 undefined undefined vapor
237.73 79.000 0.38466 2.5997 450.71 488.75 0.70685 0.93015 1.3179 1038.2 0.72404 undefined undefined vapor
238.52 80.000 0.38945 2.5677 450.79 488.83 0.70628 0.93110 1.3210 1038.2 0.71779 undefined undefined vapor
239.29 81.000 0.39425 2.5364 450.86 488.91 0.70572 0.93205 1.3241 1038.1 0.71167 undefined undefined vapor
240.06 82.000 0.39905 2.5059 450.93 488.98 0.70516 0.93299 1.3272 1038.1 0.70568 undefined undefined vapor
240.82 83.000 0.40386 2.4761 451.00 489.06 0.70461 0.93392 1.3303 1038.0 0.69983 undefined undefined vapor
241.57 84.000 0.40866 2.4470 451.07 489.13 0.70407 0.93485 1.3333 1037.9 0.69409 undefined undefined vapor
242.32 85.000 0.41347 2.4186 451.14 489.21 0.70353 0.93577 1.3364 1037.9 0.68847 undefined undefined vapor
243.06 86.000 0.41828 2.3908 451.20 489.28 0.70299 0.93669 1.3395 1037.8 0.68297 undefined undefined vapor
243.79 87.000 0.42309 2.3636 451.27 489.35 0.70247 0.93760 1.3426 1037.7 0.67759 undefined undefined vapor
244.51 88.000 0.42790 2.3370 451.33 489.41 0.70194 0.93851 1.3456 1037.6 0.67230 undefined undefined vapor
245.23 89.000 0.43272 2.3110 451.39 489.48 0.70143 0.93942 1.3487 1037.6 0.66713 undefined undefined vapor
245.94 90.000 0.43754 2.2855 451.45 489.54 0.70091 0.94032 1.3517 1037.5 0.66205 undefined undefined vapor
246.65 91.000 0.44236 2.2606 451.51 489.60 0.70040 0.94122 1.3548 1037.4 0.65707 undefined undefined vapor
247.35 92.000 0.44718 2.2362 451.57 489.66 0.69990 0.94211 1.3578 1037.3 0.65219 undefined undefined vapor
248.04 93.000 0.45201 2.2124 451.62 489.72 0.69940 0.94300 1.3609 1037.2 0.64740 undefined undefined vapor
248.73 94.000 0.45683 2.1890 451.68 489.78 0.69891 0.94388 1.3639 1037.1 0.64270 undefined undefined vapor
249.41 95.000 0.46166 2.1661 451.73 489.84 0.69842 0.94476 1.3669 1037.0 0.63809 undefined undefined vapor
250.08 96.000 0.46650 2.1436 451.78 489.89 0.69793 0.94564 1.3700 1036.9 0.63356 undefined undefined vapor
250.75 97.000 0.47133 2.1217 451.84 489.94 0.69745 0.94651 1.3730 1036.8 0.62911 undefined undefined vapor
251.42 98.000 0.47617 2.1001 451.89 490.00 0.69697 0.94738 1.3760 1036.6 0.62474 undefined undefined vapor
252.08 99.000 0.48101 2.0790 451.94 490.05 0.69650 0.94824 1.3791 1036.5 0.62045 undefined undefined vapor
252.73 100.00 0.48585 2.0582 451.98 490.10 0.69603 0.94910 1.3821 1036.4 0.61623 undefined undefined vapor

As you can see at 1psia (atmosphere is 14.7 at sea level) methanol will boil at just 47.7F. I can't tell you what dynamic pressure is in the pump suction but you can see even a slight drop from atmospheric pressure has drastic effects on saturation temperature. You can also see that it will boil at 252.7 at 100psia which at sea level would be ~85.3 psig.

Jacob

Last edited by di2co; 08-18-2006 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 08-18-2006, 01:37 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcblues
I never thought that the difference in power between tunes for 50-50 and 100% meth would be so high. Were you dealing with maxed IDC, or was that an honest gain due to octane/knock resistence? I am curious about the difference in the maps between the 100% meth and 50-50 tunes.

For me since I live in SoCal using 100 meth gave the most gains since I have a lot to benefit from the higher octane. The two were very close though. If you can get better gas to start with the two mixes would be even closer. On race gas I think straight di water would probably do the most good since water cools much better than methanol and the methanol won't be boosting your effective octane any.

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Old 08-18-2006, 02:21 PM   #46
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That is what I was thinking. But the figures mycal posted caught me shaking my head:

Originally Posted by mycal
I just had my car tuned on and off 100% meth with a SMC kit for WRX. Steve there said running strait meth can cause long term seal and diaphram swelling and failure in the pump. New rubber compounds are in the works to be released in a month or so.
My results IIRC (dyno printer down, will get sheets soon.) 2 hours of pulls. Mustang dyno, 112*F ambient indoors.
91 oct pump only 336whp
91 & 100% meth 407 whp
100oct only 400 whp
100oct & meth 480 whp
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Old 08-18-2006, 02:45 PM   #47
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Old 08-20-2006, 07:51 AM   #48
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Even with 2 6.5" SPAL fans on top of my IC the thing is still not pumping (motor is running but no pressure) after sitting in traffic. It only takes a short period of time, too, for it to get too hot. We're talking about five minutes. I'll try wrapping the pump with reflective wrap to see what happens.
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Old 08-20-2006, 09:03 AM   #49
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I don't think it's a good idea to insulate a pump that heats up while it works.

peace
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Old 08-20-2006, 01:18 PM   #50
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Julio at alky control for all your questions/needs
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