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Old 08-09-2006, 01:39 PM   #1
chris Stephens
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Default Was looking to buy the RalliTEK PPower6 ECU

Has anyone installed this upgrade in the Impreza RalliTEK PerfectPower6 ECU ?

Was wondering if this upgrade is wroth the money to put in the car?

And also was wondering how hard it would be to get this to hook up to a 05 2.5RS engine.
what is needed to make this work on the car is it easy to do just plug and your ready or does it take lots of work to get this to work on this car.
I have a 05 RS with intake, catback, crank pulley and Delta cams.

RalliTEK PerfectPower6 ECU
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Old 08-09-2006, 02:15 PM   #2
FalconRS
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If you look at the rallitek site, it's got a fully plug & play harness for 05 cars. No cutting wires or anything. I haven't used it personally, but with your setup, particularly the cams and intake, which really don't offer much in the way of gains without some sort of tuning/engine management (an intake in many cases with lose power through a bulk of the powerband without tuning), the PP6 could REALLY wake up your car.

EDIT: Should also point out, Cobb is said to be releasing the Accessport RS for the 05 and 06 non-turbo cars in fall. It'll be a little more money, but quite a bit more flexible. Might be worth waiting for. That's what I'm banking on. Before the haters chime in that it's Cobb and it'll take forever, keep in mind they've already given out a Beta for a magazine project car (Subiesport), and they'd really look sketchy if they let it out in a magazine claiming one thing, and then it didn't show up for another year.
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Old 08-09-2006, 02:20 PM   #3
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I know a few people with the PP6 and they said it greatly improved their car. If you go to www.carfreeks.net there are a few people that know more about it then I. Plus you can ask Rallitek all the questions you want.
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Old 08-09-2006, 02:21 PM   #4
chris Stephens
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Default Which one are you going to get?

which one are you looking to buy?
What have you done to your car as is.

Can you send me a link or info on the new COBB tunning ECU stuff.

Thanks
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Old 08-09-2006, 02:33 PM   #5
FalconRS
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I'm holding out for the Cobb. Right now I've got borla-replica headers, Borla catback, Perrin pulley, ground kit, and a K&N panel filter. Holding off on CAI and cams because they're really pointless without tuning, and I'll have a nice long winter to play around with that stuff. Just go to Cobb-tuning.com and click around, there isn't much info there on the Accessport RS yet, but you can read up on what it can do for the turbo cars. And for a nice short-but-sweet writeup, pick up the latest subiesport magazine, it's in their zero-to-hero project car series where they're building up an '05 RS for big n/a power. They've got the beta version of the AP RS on that car already.
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Old 08-09-2006, 02:37 PM   #6
FalconRS
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I should add, the PP6 is a fair bit cheaper than the AP RS, but with the plug & play harness suddenly it's pretty much the same price. And it's a piggyback, vs. the AP which flashes the actual ECU and gives you full control, in addition to being plug & play out of the box. The PP6 is still cheaper if you enjoy cutting & splicing wires, but not if you want to make it easy to return to stock in the future.
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Old 08-09-2006, 02:49 PM   #7
chris Stephens
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How do you like the borla-replica headers are the unequal or equal?

And where did you buy them at?

What type of mod do you need to do to make them fit?
How many cat does this take off the car when you install this item?
And last thing did you get any errors from your ECU when you install the headers?

Did you real see a difference in power and sound ?
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Old 08-09-2006, 04:43 PM   #8
FalconRS
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The borla-replica headers are identical to the original Borla, but with thicker piping and better welds. They are unequal in length, and only available on eBay. Search for Impreza Header on eBay and you'll come up with some. Make sure you don't get the ones for WRX, because they won't fit.

They fit perfectly with no modification. Any exhaust components all the way back to 97 will fit your car.

No CEL's. Replaces only the stock exhaust manifold, and no cats.

Definite improvement in power throughout the powerband, most noticable in the midrange. And without question, Borla-style headers sound far better than any equal length design.
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Old 08-09-2006, 04:46 PM   #9
FalconRS
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Catback without headers:
http://media.putfile.com/borla_catback

Catback WITH Borla-replica headers: (original borla will sound identical)
http://media.putfile.com/Borla-Heade..._10ft_from_tip

For the record, the catback used in these videos was the Borla 14885 catback for the 97-01 RS, and yes, it fit just fine on my '05. The change in sound from stock-manifold to header will be similar regardless of catback, that being from a smooth sound to a pulsed sound.
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Old 08-09-2006, 07:16 PM   #10
damonmlime
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I've noticed something recently, the pp6 hasn't been out for very long and theres always atleast 1 or 2 a week for sale in the rs25.com classifieds. Why did so many people buy them and now they want to sell them? Just kinda makes me wonder.
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Old 08-09-2006, 09:02 PM   #11
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They were selling them 2 for 1 for a period of time.
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Old 08-09-2006, 10:08 PM   #12
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2 for 1 time is all gone, but...

If anyone's looking for the full dirt on installing the PP6, I've started up a thread called "The Perfect Power Experience" which is crammed with configuration and installation information. I've been running it for a few months now, and haven't had the time to do any rebellious programming yet.

Asking me, with the AP for the NA '05+ Subarus so close to production, if you can handle the wait, you're probably better off. I don't know how much programming you can do with an AP, but it's probably a more robust system, with less surgery, easier removal, and finalized installation configuration (see below). The PP6 is a pretty sweet deal for those of us who won't be able to score an AP, and don't want to, or can't, switch to a standalone. It takes a little doing to install it, though.

The first problem is that the actual correct wire-up isn't complete. You can install it per the wiring diagram they give you, but it has a tendency to consume coilpacks if you leave the key ON (not ACC - the full ON) with the engine not turning. For the most part, this isn't a big deal. I'm currently working out the bugs in that, slapping in a resistor here and there, trying to meet stock voltage signals. I'm anticipating an oscilloscope in a few days, which should help me finish the task, ending coilpack burnout forever.

While that can be avoided, this cannot: The AP is a very clean operation. Plug, plug, plug - all with factory hardware - and the job is done. The PP6 is going to get you digging under the passenger floor, cutting the ECU harness. Some might shy away from this, but it's really not that hard if you can get your hands on a pinout sheet. Still, there's substantial work involved in contrast to the AP.

As far as programming, again, I don't know much about the AP. The PP6 offers you realtime programming and sensor reading, logging, and will store two maps, which you can change between with a toggle switch on the fly (while in motion!)

The PP6 has its benefits, but I'd say it belongs best outside the realm of the AP application set.
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Old 08-09-2006, 10:59 PM   #13
cueball89
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If there is another option for your car i would take it. Some of my problems with it are:

1. I data log through a com to usb adaptor and it only data logs for 2 mins at a time. It constantly goes offline even when im not data logging.

2. It no longer reads my afr correctly after i put a o2 new sensor in. There are no codes o2 related. Maybe its my setup, headers, hfc, and catback. It only reads like to 14.1 and higher, wont show a rich mixture?

3. To get rid of the speed cut you have to disconnect the unit from the ignition and rewire it into something eles with a resistor.

4. The unit is advertised that you can self tune it, then why is the rear o2 sensor not included in the wire up?

5. Ive been trying to get the speed limiter removal for literally months. Phones calls dont work, yahoo messages dont work, and emails dont work.

"We have not forgotten you...we are playing e-mail catchup due to the extended holiday. I or someone else should answer your questions shortly."

Thats from july 7th.

6. I find its advertised to all kinds of things but no instructions or resources to help you do it.

If anyone knows how to fix some of this let me know.

Letitsnow your thread is quiet helpful.


All in all for $440ish im disapointed with it.
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Old 08-09-2006, 11:07 PM   #14
FalconRS
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Wow guys, great info. Having not used it myself I didn't have anything particularly negative to say about it, aside from the limited controls a piggyback gives you over true ECU tuning. I was considering PP6 a backup plan if the AP RS takes too long. It's going to take a lot of Cobb Heartbreak to sway me over now.
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Old 08-09-2006, 11:19 PM   #15
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Falcon, on the newer rs's i think it only works over 4000rpm no matter how much throttle you use. All that money to control 2000 rpm?
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Old 08-10-2006, 12:50 AM   #16
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That's the area you're going to want to make the most power, anyways. I have a PP6 on my car, and I really like it, it's great. Got it when I was NA, and it carried over with the AVO turbo kit I recently installed. Works great.
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Old 08-10-2006, 01:14 AM   #17
FalconRS
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The thing is when you're dealing with N/A power and building a car for autocross, a broad, healthy powerband is what's important. Dealing with cams in particular (which I'm looking at for the winter, doing suspension work right now) I'd like to have access to the entire rev range right from idle. $440 for PP6 + $250 for the plug & play harness....$690??? That's OUTRAGEOUS to control, like cueball89 said, a 2000 rpm window. Sure, the basic AP is around $600 give or take, and with the street tuner software another $200, so basically for another hundred bucks over PP6 I now have the ability to control the entire ECU from the time you flip on the key....AND it's an even easier plug & play setup than PP6.

PP6 might be the ticket for you old-school n/a guys, and even the new school guys up to 04 who just have no other options. But when you've got a well-developed, track-tested, proven, and relatively bug-free system on its way, you wait for it.
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Old 08-10-2006, 08:05 AM   #18
LetItSnow
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Ah, that's true, too - open loop is harder to find after '04.

cueball, in our application, you CAN NOT use the speed limiter cut in the PP6. Check out my aforementioned thread - everything in it is also in the PP6 docs, all of which are available online. Two different Windows manuals, two different installation guides, a developers manual, two sets of application notes, and the DOS manual (which does have value!)

I've never had problems getting answers from Sean at Rallitek or Godfrey at PerfectPower. If they're not getting back to you in a timely fashion, I'm more than happy to field any questions anyone has about the PP6. Send me a PM.

Falcon's post above is rock solid. I just hope I'm right in believing that the thing will see production.
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Old 08-10-2006, 08:22 AM   #19
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chris Stephens i think headers would help you more than a pp6 at where you are with your mods. Here are some charts from subie sport. You match their 0 to hero project pretty well.

[img=http://pichostwizard.com/imgt/249202.jpg]
[img=http://pichostwizard.com/imgt/249203.jpg]

Last edited by cueball89; 08-10-2006 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 08-10-2006, 10:10 AM   #20
FalconRS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cueball89
chris Stephens i think headers would help you more than a pp6 at where you are with your mods. Here are some charts from subie sport. You match their 0 to hero project pretty well.

[img=http://pichostwizard.com/imgt/249202.jpg]
[img=http://pichostwizard.com/imgt/249203.jpg]
I agree with cueball on this point....sorta....

Nothing beats tuning, ESPECIALLY with cams and intake. I think with tuning you'll make more than just bolting on a set of headers.

BUT...

Because you're an '05 with the AP option looming large in the next 8-10 weeks, and because you will get some nice gains with that setup out of a header of some kind, and because it'll allow the AP to make all that much more power when it finally shows up...go with the header for now to quench your thirst for more power right now, then have fun with your car and wait for AP RS. And you will be [jeremyclarkson] ASTONISHED [/jeremyclarkson] by the results when you get some tuning on there.
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Old 08-10-2006, 05:25 PM   #21
chris Stephens
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Default Falcon Rs Need to ask you a question?

Had another question for you I went on to Ebay and did not find borla-replica headers The only thing I found close was the OBX headers but I'm not sure if they are unequal header or not.

If you get a chance can you look and show which one will work the best I would like to find the one that you are using because of what you have said about them.
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Old 08-10-2006, 05:42 PM   #22
iownaspec
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i have an identical setup to falcon on my 05 outback sport. i am waiting to put my borla replica on. i would say wait for the cobb because i have used an ap on a friends sti and they are so easy to use. no cutting, no nothing plug it in flash the map and go. i have the borla catback for the 97-01 and it fits fine lol. also chris the obx are equal length i dont belive the borla knock offs are on ebay right now, they sell out fast. they will be from 150-199 plus like 25 bucks shipping. the will say like impreza 93-02 header or something like that, you will know them when you see em.
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Old 08-10-2006, 05:43 PM   #23
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I hate to go off topic, but I think the material regarding the PP6 here is pretty well covered...

Re: Headers on the '05 2.5RS, has it been confirmed whether they have equal length headers stock? I'm wondering if it would actually benefit the car to use aftermarket goods, if that were the case.
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Old 08-10-2006, 06:02 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetItSnow
I hate to go off topic, but I think the material regarding the PP6 here is pretty well covered...

Re: Headers on the '05 2.5RS, has it been confirmed whether they have equal length headers stock? I'm wondering if it would actually benefit the car to use aftermarket goods, if that were the case.

I thought the 06's got equal length headers?
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Old 08-10-2006, 06:04 PM   #25
iownaspec
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the 06 supposedly did. the 05 has the same header system as the 02-04 rs/ts/obs.
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