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Old 08-10-2006, 05:13 AM   #1
IllNastyImpreza
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Default water/meth injection an alternative to oil cooler/bigger radiator?

ok I'm gona be installing my cobbblock verry soon, and I will need to upgrade my cooling system!...oil cooler/upgraded radiator.

BUT I was wondering if I could possibly use water injection as another alternative in cooling?
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Old 08-10-2006, 11:01 AM   #2
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Yes, WI will significantly reduce the heat put into the oil and coolant systems.

Will it be sufficient to where you will not need to upgrade those cooling systems? I don't know.
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Old 11-17-2006, 10:48 PM   #3
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Bump. Pointless to upgrade radiator after AWI?
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Old 11-17-2006, 11:25 PM   #4
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no....
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Old 11-18-2006, 12:47 AM   #5
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Gong!

To make it easy for you to understand....

WI only cools the cylinder walls. It is not used long enough to cool the oil and water cooling systems. Has nothing to do with oil and coolant temps. If you dont know, plug your laptop up for data logging and run your engine 3rd gear pulls and record the temps.
Learn before you post.

Hippy- how you been? I just got out of surgery and the hospital a couple days ago, so I havent been on a while.

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Yes, WI will significantly reduce the heat put into the oil and coolant systems.

Will it be sufficient to where you will not need to upgrade those cooling systems? I don't know.
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Old 11-18-2006, 02:21 AM   #6
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Learn before you post.
Please kill yourself.
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Old 11-18-2006, 10:19 AM   #7
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OOOh, someone has anger issues. Helps if you know what you are talking about before you stick you foot in your mouth and cause others to have engine problems due to false advice.


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Please kill yourself.
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Old 11-18-2006, 12:00 PM   #8
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The ONLY time you need to even bother thinking about upgrading anything in your coolant system, is if you are having problems keeping at normal operating temps.

On 99.9999% of street cars, upgrading the radiator is a complete waste of money.
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Old 11-18-2006, 04:22 PM   #9
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Helps if you know what you are talking about before you stick you foot in your mouth and cause others to have engine problems due to false advice.
Didn't score very high the reading comp section of your boards, eh? Check the comment. I didn't give anyone "false advice," Corky.
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Old 11-18-2006, 06:43 PM   #10
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Ummm, let me see. You said that water/ Alky kit will lower the oil temp and the coolant temp.
Both of which is BS, proves you know nothing about WI systems and their functionality.
+'s "False advice". No advice is better than false or an uneducated statement anysay.
Skip questions you cannot answer or have no knowledge of.

Whatever else you are talking about reading comp, I dont have a clue, you wrote your statement.

jay-R

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Didn't score very high the reading comp section of your boards, eh? Check the comment. I didn't give anyone "false advice," Corky.
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Old 11-18-2006, 08:17 PM   #11
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The ONLY time you need to even bother thinking about upgrading anything in your coolant system, is if you are having problems keeping at normal operating temps.

On 99.9999% of street cars, upgrading the radiator is a complete waste of money.
even when running 30+ lbs of boost from a GT30R ?? on a closed deck ej25 with darton iron sleeves?
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Old 11-18-2006, 08:29 PM   #12
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I wouldnt change your radiator ect. unless your tuner advises it during a tuning session when he discovers cooling problems.
You should be fine with what you got.

Jay-R

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even when running 30+ lbs of boost from a GT30R ?? on a closed deck ej25 with darton iron sleeves?
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Old 11-18-2006, 08:31 PM   #13
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You could benefit from an Alky kit though as far as tuning you can gain some HP and the water does add a bit of quick safety under the boost conditions you select.

Jay-R
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Old 11-18-2006, 08:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IllNastyImpreza View Post
even when running 30+ lbs of boost from a GT30R ?? on a closed deck ej25 with darton iron sleeves?
Like he said, there is no need to upgrade the cooling system if the liquid it cools doesn't get too hot. That doesn't mean there aren't possinly advantages/disatvanteges to upgrading the cooling system, even though the car doesn't need it.

peace
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Old 11-19-2006, 12:39 AM   #15
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Ummm, let me see. You said that water/ Alky kit will lower the oil temp and the coolant temp.
Wow, you are stupid. Read the name of the person who made that comment again, left to right this time, d00d.
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Old 11-19-2006, 09:02 AM   #16
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This is another one of those educated responses. You have meade several here.
You are in LA with an attitude like this, it will happen to you first.

Jay-R

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Please kill yourself.
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Old 11-19-2006, 10:06 AM   #17
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From my understanding of inyecting water in the engine is to compenaste for bad fuel(low octane),reduce exshaust gas temperature alowing to run higher boost or leaner mixtures. My friend has it in his group A8 ford escort coeshowrth and whit it he runs cheeper petrol and hawing the same power as our impreza.


Dont change the raditors if your car dosent overheat! It is a waste of money.

Wrc impreza has a smaller cooler that the serial one but it has a more powerful water pump to compensate for the smaller cooler (put togheter it weighs less than standard but it has more effect).

And to answer your question no WI wont do any good or harm to overheating (useles)
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Old 11-19-2006, 11:13 AM   #18
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People keep saying that, but is it really true? Water cools and slows combustions, and cools many parts of the engine. If someone used water injection to get the same power as they had b4 injection, the engine should run much cooler, and so should the oil and coolant. This is given that the coolant was going above the thermostants crack temp b4 injection. On top of that, the only reason people haven't seen this type of cooling effect on the oil and coolant is that they tune for the same temps as b4 injection, and that makes their old cooling system work as hard as b4 injection. Course this is just the way I see it, and I've never tested out the theory. Like I said though, I've never heard of anyone else testing it either, which makes me wonder why everyone thinks that water can't help the cooling system. I mean it does the same thing as normal coolant, except it absorbs more heat by being in the middle of the combustion, and it pushes the heat out the exhaust instead of using air to cool it. If anything, I'd think that water injection could help a coolant system keep the temp down better then a bigger radiator.....

peace
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Old 11-19-2006, 11:40 AM   #19
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well that might be true but why the hell would you use a expensive eletronicaly controled(gets ****ed up preatty easy) device rather than bigger radiator.

In racing the mother of all ruels is Keep it simple. And in my opinion giving 300 euros for radiator beats the crap of water injection
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Old 11-19-2006, 12:20 PM   #20
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Hippy, whats up?
For a WI system to cool the oil of cooling system it would have to be constantly used. We use our systems for short burst ( mostly). Since it is injected directly into the cylinders and is burnt or evaporated so quickly it does nothing for us as far as changing the radiator/ oil temps. Data logging shows this.
WI would probably work on the cooling/ oil temp systems if it was constantly being forced, however a larger radiator, additional fans and an oil cooler would be much more efficient for the two systems in question.

Jay-R


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People keep saying that, but is it really true? Water cools and slows combustions, and cools many parts of the engine. If someone used water injection to get the same power as they had b4 injection, the engine should run much cooler, and so should the oil and coolant. This is given that the coolant was going above the thermostants crack temp b4 injection. On top of that, the only reason people haven't seen this type of cooling effect on the oil and coolant is that they tune for the same temps as b4 injection, and that makes their old cooling system work as hard as b4 injection. Course this is just the way I see it, and I've never tested out the theory. Like I said though, I've never heard of anyone else testing it either, which makes me wonder why everyone thinks that water can't help the cooling system. I mean it does the same thing as normal coolant, except it absorbs more heat by being in the middle of the combustion, and it pushes the heat out the exhaust instead of using air to cool it. If anything, I'd think that water injection could help a coolant system keep the temp down better then a bigger radiator.....

peace
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Old 11-19-2006, 12:30 PM   #21
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It doesn't need to be constantly used. Imagine this. Your coolant temp starts at 180F and when you go to hard throttle it climbs and climbs until you're no longer beating on the car. Now imagine that combustion is 400F cooler because of water being in the mix, and that water also cools the parts that transfer heat to the collant. The coolant temp wouldn't rise as quick, and the oil cooler(coolant->oil oil->coolant) would help the oil stay cooler because of the cooler coolant temp. Not sayin that it would make a huge difference, and there are certain limiting factors, but I've never heard/seen anything proving the contrary.

peace
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Old 11-19-2006, 12:49 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hippy View Post
Like he said, there is no need to upgrade the cooling system if the liquid it cools doesn't get too hot. That doesn't mean there aren't possinly advantages/disatvanteges to upgrading the cooling system, even though the car doesn't need it.

peace
i agree. if the car doesnt over heat then dont bother...if it is broken then you can upgrade to a koyo it is bigger and cheaper than stock and it looks good.

but if you notice a slight increase in temps then you upgrade if you want, that is a personal preference, unless the tuner you have suggests it.

like for example i see a few higher degrees when im on c116 and running 33psi on a 1.06 GT35R. someday i will get a koyo. but its not needed right now.
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Old 11-19-2006, 12:51 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hippy View Post
It doesn't need to be constantly used. Imagine this. Your coolant temp starts at 180F and when you go to hard throttle it climbs and climbs until you're no longer beating on the car. Now imagine that combustion is 400F cooler because of water being in the mix, and that water also cools the parts that transfer heat to the collant. The coolant temp wouldn't rise as quick, and the oil cooler(coolant->oil oil->coolant) would help the oil stay cooler because of the cooler coolant temp. Not sayin that it would make a huge difference, and there are certain limiting factors, but I've never heard/seen anything proving the contrary.
True but going back to your other point, people using injection then further tune their setups to the same performance standards as before the injection. In my case for example, I push my non-injection EGT to 1550F. Then add injection to the same tune and the EGT’s drop (to some degree) therefore allowing the tune to be pushed further increasing exhaust temps back up to the same peak level as pre-injection. So with that said, wouldn’t the use of injection be irrelevant to coolant/oil temps if the tune (regardless of power-adders) is always running the same peak levels?
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Old 11-19-2006, 01:02 PM   #24
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The only relevant solution would be to throw a water only injection to the engine and not tune for it.
I discussed this in another thread a while ago.
When I first installed my kit prior to the tune I ran water only and only at 9-17 PSI. The temp would decreas by about 300-400 deg, however it was only during my selected boost pressures.
Immedietly after getting off the throttle the Temps went back to their normal operating temps.
Thats why the only long term solution to Radiator and Oil temp cooling is through a larger Radiator and/ or more electric fans and an oil cooler. The use of WI to accomplich this cooling affect would be rather expensive and hard ( not Impossible to achieve). Running water Injection to do this you would have to trigger the injection system through the radiator temp sender unit and select a temp range. You would also need some ungodly ammount of water to carry around.

Jay-R
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Old 11-26-2006, 12:28 PM   #25
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Quote:
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On 99.9999% of street cars, upgrading the radiator is a complete waste of money.
Unless you have a front end collision and realize an all aluminum Koyo w/a 60% increase in cooling capacity will only cost you $60-80 more than the stocker.

Over 30 dyno pulls on a 106 degree day (in the dyno room) and my coolant temps didn't budge.
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