Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday September 2, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
Canada Region Club
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Regional Areas > Canada Region Forum > Western Canada

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-11-2006, 05:18 PM   #1
Flexx999
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 36302
Join Date: May 2003
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Vehicle:
2006 Big 16G WRX
Addicted to Blue

Default Ethanol Blend 94 Oct. Fuel

All I gotta say is they arent kidding about getting worse gas mileage with this stuff. this is only my 2nd tank I have ran through and Im barely getting over 400kms on a tank. When I run Esso 91 I can get close to 500kms out of a tank (this is all city drviing)

Funny how they make a fuel environmentally friendly yet your car burns a crap load more of it. Just like you try to eat healthy and the foods cost twice the price as if you where eating crap all the time.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by Flexx999; 08-11-2006 at 06:05 PM.
Flexx999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2006, 05:47 PM   #2
thejean
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17763
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, AB
Default

I figured the same may have been happening to me as I use 94 a lot but then again, I have never actually bothered to measure. But unless you go through more than a tank of gas a week, does it really matter? So, you have one less lunch out per week... its worth it to me if the car runs better/stronger with the stuff.
thejean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2006, 05:50 PM   #3
wrxfool
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 98900
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Vehicle:
2006 STi
black on gold

Default

hmm, that's crazy, When I fill up I'm usually @ 310-330km and I usually put between 36 and 40 liters which gives me around 450-490 a tank. what were you tuned on, stupid question but do you think maybe because your putting a higher octane than what you were protuned on is will put some things out of whack??
wrxfool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2006, 06:07 PM   #4
Flexx999
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 36302
Join Date: May 2003
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Vehicle:
2006 Big 16G WRX
Addicted to Blue

Default

I was tuned on 91 oct. And nothing will go out of whack by running 94...the car will actually run better and stronger on 94.

I can run either fuels. I still run 91 on the highway as I can get close to 600 out of a tank of that.

But I do agree with you thejean.......it is worth it to know its safer to run the 94.
Flexx999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2006, 06:30 PM   #5
Airboy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 72829
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Canada
Vehicle:
2006 WRX
EFR6758

Default

I ran one tank Husky 94 in my'06 WRX (cobb stg2) and didn't notice much difference in mileage, if any.

Tried the 94 stuff to see if it would affect the Knock Correction values, which it didn't.

How much ethanol is in Husky/Mohawk 94 anyway?
Airboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2006, 06:53 PM   #6
thejean
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17763
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, AB
Default

Also, a car tuned on 91 will run more timing correction on 94, but this does nothing for boost or fueling. I believe that if properly tuned for 94, you will make more powa.
thejean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2006, 06:54 PM   #7
thejean
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17763
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, AB
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airboy
How much ethanol is in Husky/Mohawk 94 anyway?
They will only say "up to 10%".
thejean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2006, 08:43 PM   #8
RexSex
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 79088
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Vehicle:
2004 300hp WRX
Silver

Default

Im not sure if you guys know this, but just to make sure...

Know that 94 octane and 91 octane are not only different blends, but also act on each other like oil and water. They do not mix. When you change fuels, make sure you completely (or almost completely) finish the tank of the old octane before filling the new octane.

Also, remember that changing octanes, no matter how nice your car might react to it, is not good for the car. You should not simply fill up with a new octane and go flying at whatever speed/rpm you want. The ECU needs to learn the new timing and it doesn't happen instantly. Just because you can't hear your car killing itself doesn't mean it isn't.

After changing octanes, you should try to let the ECU learn by first driving at low/moderate speeds, letting the engine reach the entire rpm range, then at a higher speed doing the same, and so on. Let the ECU see as much of the power range as possible as often as possible for the first while. You should continue this for a day or two.
RexSex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2006, 08:53 PM   #9
Airboy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 72829
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Canada
Vehicle:
2006 WRX
EFR6758

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RexSex
Im not sure if you guys know this, but just to make sure...

Know that 94 octane and 91 octane are not only different blends, but also act on each other like oil and water. They do not mix. When you change fuels, make sure you completely (or almost completely) finish the tank of the old octane before filling the new octane.
Do you have any other sources to back this up? Sounds a little "over the top" to me.

FWIW, my gas light was on when I refueled. Also reset the ECU afterwards to clear the 'learned' settings.
Airboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2006, 10:00 PM   #10
thejean
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17763
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, AB
Default

I tend to agree with Airboy. Please take no offense RexSex but, at least to me anyway, switching octanes is like resetting the ECU. No biggy. Go down in octane... diferent story though.. I have felt my car pull timing in response from the change from 94 to 91. But the ECU pulls three degrees at a time and adds it back at one degree so the most you'd see is two knock events. Six degrees is a lot of timing to pull out.
thejean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2006, 12:41 AM   #11
aleksl
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 115267
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Canada
Default

I know when I had my old car to go from 87 to 94 (for the turbo application) I had to go though 3-4 tanks before tunning for 94. The guy tuning it said it was safer that way to make sure there was no old stuff in there.

I know when the light comes on in the WRX there is still 10-11 liters of gas left in there so when you top up with higher octane there is still like a 10/60 old stuff in there...
aleksl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2006, 02:18 AM   #12
thejean
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17763
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, AB
Default

For tuning, yes, I would agree. But how often do you drive around at full load in 5th gear at 6000 rpm and 37 celcius weather? Most tuners will tell you a properly tuned car can take a few knock events and not blow up so long as its not sustained. Factory ECU makes sure that doesn't happen. When guys with WRX's used to blow up engines it was often because they did something so severe (like using manual boost controllers and running the turbos way out range... i.e., hot) and never let off. ECU can't pull timing quick enough... kaboom.

For the record, I ran my 94 protune map just for ****s and giggles on 91 gas and never had any knock and this was a full throttle run. I can provide you all with the log if you like. Full load, 6000 rpm in 4th. Ambient temps were a little cooler and my knock correction went from 5-9 to 0-5 but still, I had positive knock correction and no det. If ECU had of pulled 3 degrees of timing, clearly it would have been enough to prevent the big bang.

I'll be the first to admit that this wasn't the smartest thing to do, but it proved something I had been interested in finding out with respect to variations in our fuel. Our ECU's are designed to handle a bad tank of gas every now and then. So, if you go from 94 to 91 and leave 10-15% in the tank, your knock correction may back off a bit but you're not likely to do any major damage to your engine. Damage could theoretically happen but all the stars would have to align...

Now tuning, that is a different story altogether... although to me, tuning on a slight blend would introduce some conservancy.
thejean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2006, 04:10 AM   #13
RexSex
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 79088
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Vehicle:
2004 300hp WRX
Silver

Default

Yes, I would agree with thejean to an extent. Some ECUs are more efficient at dealing with octane changes, and Subarus could be one of those ECUs. What I said above is just what I know about octanes and cars in general. Subarus might be the exception in that they can handle changes better.

In any case, I was given these details by the guys at the world-famous Neetronics in Mississauga, Ontario (IMO the best tuning shop in the country). Paul (teh Guru) explained to me how I should handle octane changes and why. The man is an expert and a professional, and I trust his opinion very much.
RexSex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2006, 11:46 AM   #14
Flexx999
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 36302
Join Date: May 2003
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Vehicle:
2006 Big 16G WRX
Addicted to Blue

Default

When I spoke with Jarred about the octane levels he said your car is tuned for 91 oct. Run 94 oct when you can as the car will run better/stronger on 94 but your safe to run 91. And he told me switching back and forth is not an issue. As I told him I wanted to run 91 on the highway as I dont drive the car aggressive when Im going back and forth to work, the fuel is cheaper and I get better mileage on 91. He said that wouldnt be an issue.

As for regular unleaded gasoline and ethanol blend gasoline not mixing. The blend we use is up to 10% ethanol, well guess what the other 90% in the mix is......regular unleaded gasoline. So how can they say it doesnt mix???? Thats what the blend already is. I have read no where to back this statement up that you are making. Do you have some documentation on it?

I will continue searching but I have done alot of reading on it. The only bad information I have found on it is not to run ethanol blend in my motorcycle. Also Im sure if it was as bad as you where saying wouldnt they have a huge sign posted at the pump to tell you not to mix no-ethanol gas with ethanol blended?

Last edited by Flexx999; 08-12-2006 at 11:58 AM.
Flexx999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2006, 12:00 PM   #15
thejean
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17763
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, AB
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RexSex
In any case, I was given these details by the guys at the world-famous Neetronics in Mississauga, Ontario (IMO the best tuning shop in the country). Paul (teh Guru) explained to me how I should handle octane changes and why. The man is an expert and a professional, and I trust his opinion very much.
I agree with you though that for the ECU to fully optimize itself, it may take a lot longer than a few runs to the grocery store.
thejean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2006, 02:15 PM   #16
RexSex
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 79088
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Vehicle:
2004 300hp WRX
Silver

Default

Im gonna give Paul a call and ask him for more details tonight. I'll get back to you later. (Im getting curious myself).
RexSex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2006, 02:18 PM   #17
Flexx999
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 36302
Join Date: May 2003
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Vehicle:
2006 Big 16G WRX
Addicted to Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RexSex
Im gonna give Paul a call and ask him for more details tonight. I'll get back to you later. (Im getting curious myself).
I sent Jarred at PDX an e-mail about it to, asking him to clerify this as well.
Flexx999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2006, 12:32 PM   #18
Flexx999
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 36302
Join Date: May 2003
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Vehicle:
2006 Big 16G WRX
Addicted to Blue

Default

Just got an e-mail back from Jarred at PDX, he said since Im tuned on 91 I can switch back and forth with no problems. And he said as for mixing the ethanol blend with regular gasoline he said he has never heard that was a problem, he said all that does it lower the octane rating the more regular gasoline you add to the tank.
Flexx999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2006, 12:35 PM   #19
thejean
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17763
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, AB
Default

If you have been driving around on "pure" 94 for a while, switching to 91 the ECU will pull out some positive knock correction... probably 3 to 4 degrees. No biggy. As long as it doesn't see negative knock correction... meaning, it's constantly bouncing off the knock threshold, then it shouldn't be an issue.
thejean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2006, 02:27 PM   #20
Modifying
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 83521
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary,Alberta
Vehicle:
05 PDX Pro-tuned
Stg2 WRX

Default

I only run 94 when I race.
Modifying is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2006, 05:24 PM   #21
benyl
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 48833
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Vehicle:
'05 Dirty STi
'08 E92 335,'03 E46 M3C

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RexSex
Know that 94 octane and 91 octane are not only different blends, but also act on each other like oil and water. They do not mix. When you change fuels, make sure you completely (or almost completely) finish the tank of the old octane before filling the new octane.

Also, remember that changing octanes, no matter how nice your car might react to it, is not good for the car. You should not simply fill up with a new octane and go flying at whatever speed/rpm you want. The ECU needs to learn the new timing and it doesn't happen instantly. Just because you can't hear your car killing itself doesn't mean it isn't.
OMG, this is the biggest load of **** I have ever read.

It is legislated in the US that a car MUST run on 87 octane. That means, even cars that require 91 have to be able to run on 87 for a time before 91 can be found again. The latest cars have very sophisticated ECU that will compensate for changing Ocatane levels.

Many times, when you are thinking your are getting 91 or 94 octane, you might be getting 90 or 93. It all depends on how the gas station is blending their tanks.
benyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2006, 05:36 PM   #22
Wombat North
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21267
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Eats, roots and then leaves
Vehicle:
STI, EWG 8cm Green
UTEC/ECUtek/WI & SD tune

Default

I'm enjoying my popcorn if anyone wanted to know.
Wombat North is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2006, 06:02 PM   #23
thejean
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17763
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, AB
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wombat North
I'm enjoying my popcorn if anyone wanted to know.
Chime in my friend. You have some experience in this area I do believe.

PS - What is the octane of that butter biodiesel fuel anyway?
thejean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2006, 06:23 PM   #24
RexSex
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 79088
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Vehicle:
2004 300hp WRX
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by benyl
OMG, this is the biggest load of **** I have ever read.

It is legislated in the US that a car MUST run on 87 octane. That means, even cars that require 91 have to be able to run on 87 for a time before 91 can be found again. The latest cars have very sophisticated ECU that will compensate for changing Ocatane levels.

Many times, when you are thinking your are getting 91 or 94 octane, you might be getting 90 or 93. It all depends on how the gas station is blending their tanks.
lol...is it too hard to say "I don't think so" or "I think you are wrong" or something a little less "let's get into a fight" -ish?

I think you missed my point. I never said that a car tuned for 91 or 94 "cannot" run on a lesser octane...I said that you should not change octanes then just floor the gas out of the gas station. You need to give the ECU time to learn the new octane.

Also, even 94 tuned cars CAN run on 87, but prolonged use and heavy driving would lead to harming the engine. There is a difference between "can" and "should". All our cars "can", but definitely "should" not drive on 87 or 89.
RexSex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2006, 09:44 PM   #25
Flexx999
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 36302
Join Date: May 2003
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Vehicle:
2006 Big 16G WRX
Addicted to Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wombat North
I'm enjoying my popcorn if anyone wanted to know.
ya....if your gonna post shed some light on the subject
Flexx999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
91 oct fuel vs 94 oct E10 Czum Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 10 04-02-2008 08:18 AM
AP 93 octane stage 1 with Ethanol blended 94 octane gas..anybody? ST3 Canada Region Forum 1 08-17-2006 12:35 AM
Ethanol Blended Gas? dunwoody Newbies & FAQs 9 01-06-2006 08:02 PM
Cobb will create a map for Accessport to use with Husky Ethanol blended gas zuczek Canada Region Forum 21 03-29-2005 11:47 AM
Fuel question - Ethanol blend? SnortWagon Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 2 05-23-2002 01:19 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.