ppp3 reflash w/ non-prodrive stuff?

WReXd · 08-14-2006, 11:57 AM

Has anyone ever done this? Used a prodrive ecu with non-prodrive stuff? I've read of people putting on dps/turbobacks with ppp2, but I want to know if anyone's used different downpipes or turbobacks with ppp3. I'm planning to do this and want to know what to expect. Please share your experience.

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Crawford/I-Speed · 08-14-2006, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WReXd

Has anyone ever done this? Used a prodrive ecu with non-prodrive stuff? I've read of people putting on dps/turbobacks with ppp2, but I want to know if anyone's used different downpipes or turbobacks with ppp3. I'm planning to do this and want to know what to expect. Please share your experience.

The Prodrive map are designed specifically for the Prodrive parts. I would be cautious of running a Prodrive map with non-Prodrive parts.

Cheers,
Crawford Performance / I-Speed USA

WReXd · 08-15-2006, 06:10 PM

I was thinking that basically any ic y-hose, uppipe, and muffler will perform VERY similarly as long as they are the same diameter. The only thing I am really concerned about is the downpipe... It's design is much more unique, and it isn't 3" like most.

Spec C Wannabe · 08-15-2006, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WReXd

I was thinking that basically any ic y-hose, uppipe, and muffler will perform VERY similarly as long as they are the same diameter. The only thing I am really concerned about is the downpipe... It's design is much more unique, and it isn't 3" like most.

How does the ProDrive downpipe look like? Can you give me the link to its pic?

In my opinion, I will not worry much about using Prodrive PPP3 with non-Prodrive parts. As long as the modification list is the same and parts used have roughly the same dimension, you should be fine.

To get the best result, you will need a custom tune. But you have PPP3 map as a good foundation to start with.

WReXd · 08-15-2006, 10:36 PM

Here is a link, although the pics aren't all that detailed.
http://mastrowrx.com/index.asp?PageA...ProdID=60&HS=1

The shorty downpipe+3rd cat delete is 2.5" throughout (not including the wastegate split), except for that large chamber where the cat is. I'm thinking of using a 3" bellmouth, but I don't know how it'll affect performance...

JRSCCivic98 · 08-16-2006, 10:35 AM

That's an old pic. The new downpipes don't have divorced wastegate tubes. It's a bellmouth with divider wall design. Here's a pic...

FromageTheDog · 08-16-2006, 10:58 AM

Just out of curiosity, is there any particular reason you're going the Prodrive route?

Don't get me wrong, they make premium stuff (heh, has anyone else seen "Everything is Illuminated?" Premium...), and when I was figuring out what to do with my car I was all set to go PPP. However, what I found is that it's really hard to justify the cost of Prodrive parts and reflashes, when similar or better gains can be found elsewhere for less: AP, 3-port BCS, "stage 2" hardware and a custom tune put me well under PPP3 cost, while providing slightly better gains.

I started a similar thread (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=996733) a couple months ago, and was glad for the advice I received then from folks like JRSCCivic98. Just suggesting you do a little more research to prove to yourself the Prodrive option really is right for you...

WReXd · 08-16-2006, 01:11 PM

Honestly, the reason why I'm going with prodrive is because I found a ppp3 ecu for just $330. Assuming I can sell my ecu for 150 or so, I end up spending less than 200 for engine management. Coincidentally, the mods I have are already very similar to the required setup. (ic y hose, txs uppipe, sti axleback) The only thing I need now is a downpipe to replace my gutted. Also, from what I've read, prodrive has a good reputation for having very safe, reliable and driveable base maps. I am not planning to go any further than stage 2/ppp3, and a custom tune isn't in my future plans. (for now at least) Thus, a good base map is a must. They also have a LOT of experience behind them. If need be I will buy a used prodrive dp for 300 or so, but in the end I will still be spending less than if I had bought another dp and an ap, which is tuned for what I don't have anyway. (3" all the way, uppipe not included)

nhgsr · 10-04-2006, 08:31 AM

to bring this back from the dead. How do you like your Prodrive ECU? When I bought my car it came with the prodrive ecu, downpipe, catless midpipe, and I have a turboxs RFL-ti rear section. I have not yet installed the up-pipe. What type of tuning can I do with this? I have not found any information about where to get it tuned when I do more stuff to it.

FromageTheDog · 10-04-2006, 01:36 PM

This is exactly the reason most folks don't go the Prodrive route -- much easier/cheaper (from tuner and client standpoint) to go the AP route.

nhgsr · 10-04-2006, 03:27 PM

I havn't really looked into it, so I figured I would go to the #1 source. A scoob forum like this I'm sure everything has been done once or twice. What kind of add on tuning options are there?

WReXd · 10-04-2006, 04:05 PM

nhgsr: another nasioc guy was selling his prodrive ecu and I bought it from him. That's how I got mine. I bought it for 330 and sold mine for 200, so 130 for em isn't bad. Not the best out there, but defenitely not bad. As for tuning, If you're just going to run the prodrive stuff, then I don't think it's worth it to get a custom tune, UNLESS of course, you get a turbo upgrade or other mods that the ecu doesn't cover. If, by "add on tuning," you mean additional mods, there are a few mods you can do without having to get your car custom tuned. You can always p&p exhaust/turbo stuff, get a turbo inlet, pulleys, or a larger intercooler and still be fine. There's a guy on here that's running all that. Of course, optimally, you'd still want a custom tune though.

nhgsr · 10-04-2006, 09:57 PM

ok, thats good info. I dont plan on too much stuff. But, turbo inlet, larger IC, I eventually wanted an STI turbo. I was looking on what choices I had to do so. Would a SAFC or some other controller help with that, or would I have to get a full ECU set-up *cobb tuning, accessport* type set ups?

WReXd · 10-05-2006, 02:46 PM

Hmm, honestly I don't know what safc is. However, I don't tthink any additional tuning to the prodrive ecu is necessary if you're just running a few mild mods. If you get a vf39, definitely get some new em. Sell your prodrive ecu, get a stock one, and then a protune or whatever.

nhgsr · 10-05-2006, 08:40 PM

SAFC is a af ratio controller from A'pex i. You can change fuel points, and if you get bigger injectors you can tune it with that. There are some other uses for it to. I have the VAFC for my integra, its the same set up only lets you also change VTEC crossover points.

jac04 · 10-07-2006, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WReXd

You can always p&p exhaust/turbo stuff, get a turbo inlet, pulleys, or a larger intercooler and still be fine. There's a guy on here that's running all that.

I'm running the PPP3 with a STi TMIC, STi up-pipe, p& p exhaust manifolds, p&p throttle body, p&p IC piping, and Samco turbo inlet. Spool-up is excellent, and it is a great all-around performer.

FromageTheDog · 10-07-2006, 02:54 PM

I'm amazed that you can shift the hardware around so much and not have any issues -- I thought the PPP reflashes were notorious for being intolerant of non-specified hardware.

jac04 · 10-07-2006, 07:28 PM

The guys at Prodrive actually recommended the STi IC with the PPP3, and they did not have any issues using the STi up-pipe instead of the Prodrive one.

FromageTheDog · 10-08-2006, 02:23 AM

Ah! I forget that the PPP3 replaces the UP. That makes sense -- there isn't much performance difference from one UP to another, unless you're talking externally gated, or whatever.

Never heard about the IC bit though -- interesting to know.

haroman1188 · 05-08-2008, 08:14 PM

anyone need a prodrive ecu. i have the stage 3 pack but im upgrading and cant reflash the prodrive one. i have it for sale once i get a stock ecu in the mail. just seeing if anyone is interested?

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08-14-2006, 11:57 AM	#1
WReXd Scooby Specialist Member#: 114101 Join Date: May 2006 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Buena Park, CA Vehicle: 93 Impreza L Swap	ppp3 reflash w/ non-prodrive stuff? Has anyone ever done this? Used a prodrive ecu with non-prodrive stuff? I've read of people putting on dps/turbobacks with ppp2, but I want to know if anyone's used different downpipes or turbobacks with ppp3. I'm planning to do this and want to know what to expect. Please share your experience. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

08-15-2006, 06:10 PM	#3
WReXd Scooby Specialist Member#: 114101 Join Date: May 2006 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Buena Park, CA Vehicle: 93 Impreza L Swap	I was thinking that basically any ic y-hose, uppipe, and muffler will perform VERY similarly as long as they are the same diameter. The only thing I am really concerned about is the downpipe... It's design is much more unique, and it isn't 3" like most.

08-15-2006, 10:36 PM	#5
WReXd Scooby Specialist Member#: 114101 Join Date: May 2006 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Buena Park, CA Vehicle: 93 Impreza L Swap	Here is a link, although the pics aren't all that detailed. http://mastrowrx.com/index.asp?PageA...ProdID=60&HS=1 The shorty downpipe+3rd cat delete is 2.5" throughout (not including the wastegate split), except for that large chamber where the cat is. I'm thinking of using a 3" bellmouth, but I don't know how it'll affect performance...

08-16-2006, 10:35 AM	#6
JRSCCivic98 Scooby Specialist Member#: 67080 Join Date: Jul 2004	That's an old pic. The new downpipes don't have divorced wastegate tubes. It's a bellmouth with divider wall design. Here's a pic...

08-16-2006, 10:58 AM	#7
FromageTheDog Scooby Specialist Member#: 81095 Join Date: Feb 2005 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: Left seat. Vehicle: 2005 WRX sedan baby- bus. OS self-tuned!	Just out of curiosity, is there any particular reason you're going the Prodrive route? Don't get me wrong, they make premium stuff (heh, has anyone else seen "Everything is Illuminated?" Premium...), and when I was figuring out what to do with my car I was all set to go PPP. However, what I found is that it's really hard to justify the cost of Prodrive parts and reflashes, when similar or better gains can be found elsewhere for less: AP, 3-port BCS, "stage 2" hardware and a custom tune put me well under PPP3 cost, while providing slightly better gains. I started a similar thread (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=996733) a couple months ago, and was glad for the advice I received then from folks like JRSCCivic98. Just suggesting you do a little more research to prove to yourself the Prodrive option really is right for you...

08-16-2006, 01:11 PM	#8
WReXd Scooby Specialist Member#: 114101 Join Date: May 2006 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Buena Park, CA Vehicle: 93 Impreza L Swap	Honestly, the reason why I'm going with prodrive is because I found a ppp3 ecu for just $330. Assuming I can sell my ecu for 150 or so, I end up spending less than 200 for engine management. Coincidentally, the mods I have are already very similar to the required setup. (ic y hose, txs uppipe, sti axleback) The only thing I need now is a downpipe to replace my gutted. Also, from what I've read, prodrive has a good reputation for having very safe, reliable and driveable base maps. I am not planning to go any further than stage 2/ppp3, and a custom tune isn't in my future plans. (for now at least) Thus, a good base map is a must. They also have a LOT of experience behind them. If need be I will buy a used prodrive dp for 300 or so, but in the end I will still be spending less than if I had bought another dp and an ap, which is tuned for what I don't have anyway. (3" all the way, uppipe not included)

10-04-2006, 08:31 AM	#9
nhgsr Scooby Newbie Member#: 125859 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NH Vehicle: 02 WRX WBP	to bring this back from the dead. How do you like your Prodrive ECU? When I bought my car it came with the prodrive ecu, downpipe, catless midpipe, and I have a turboxs RFL-ti rear section. I have not yet installed the up-pipe. What type of tuning can I do with this? I have not found any information about where to get it tuned when I do more stuff to it.

10-04-2006, 01:36 PM	#10
FromageTheDog Scooby Specialist Member#: 81095 Join Date: Feb 2005 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: Left seat. Vehicle: 2005 WRX sedan baby- bus. OS self-tuned!	This is exactly the reason most folks don't go the Prodrive route -- much easier/cheaper (from tuner and client standpoint) to go the AP route.

10-04-2006, 03:27 PM	#11
nhgsr Scooby Newbie Member#: 125859 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NH Vehicle: 02 WRX WBP	I havn't really looked into it, so I figured I would go to the #1 source. A scoob forum like this I'm sure everything has been done once or twice. What kind of add on tuning options are there?

10-04-2006, 04:05 PM	#12
WReXd Scooby Specialist Member#: 114101 Join Date: May 2006 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Buena Park, CA Vehicle: 93 Impreza L Swap	nhgsr: another nasioc guy was selling his prodrive ecu and I bought it from him. That's how I got mine. I bought it for 330 and sold mine for 200, so 130 for em isn't bad. Not the best out there, but defenitely not bad. As for tuning, If you're just going to run the prodrive stuff, then I don't think it's worth it to get a custom tune, UNLESS of course, you get a turbo upgrade or other mods that the ecu doesn't cover. If, by "add on tuning," you mean additional mods, there are a few mods you can do without having to get your car custom tuned. You can always p&p exhaust/turbo stuff, get a turbo inlet, pulleys, or a larger intercooler and still be fine. There's a guy on here that's running all that. Of course, optimally, you'd still want a custom tune though.

10-04-2006, 09:57 PM	#13
nhgsr Scooby Newbie Member#: 125859 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NH Vehicle: 02 WRX WBP	ok, thats good info. I dont plan on too much stuff. But, turbo inlet, larger IC, I eventually wanted an STI turbo. I was looking on what choices I had to do so. Would a SAFC or some other controller help with that, or would I have to get a full ECU set-up cobb tuning, accessport type set ups?

10-05-2006, 02:46 PM	#14
WReXd Scooby Specialist Member#: 114101 Join Date: May 2006 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Buena Park, CA Vehicle: 93 Impreza L Swap	Hmm, honestly I don't know what safc is. However, I don't tthink any additional tuning to the prodrive ecu is necessary if you're just running a few mild mods. If you get a vf39, definitely get some new em. Sell your prodrive ecu, get a stock one, and then a protune or whatever.

10-05-2006, 08:40 PM	#15
nhgsr Scooby Newbie Member#: 125859 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NH Vehicle: 02 WRX WBP	SAFC is a af ratio controller from A'pex i. You can change fuel points, and if you get bigger injectors you can tune it with that. There are some other uses for it to. I have the VAFC for my integra, its the same set up only lets you also change VTEC crossover points.

10-07-2006, 02:54 PM	#17
FromageTheDog Scooby Specialist Member#: 81095 Join Date: Feb 2005 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: Left seat. Vehicle: 2005 WRX sedan baby- bus. OS self-tuned!	I'm amazed that you can shift the hardware around so much and not have any issues -- I thought the PPP reflashes were notorious for being intolerant of non-specified hardware.

10-07-2006, 07:28 PM	#18
jac04 Scooby Specialist Member#: 49895 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Connecticut Vehicle: 09 Forester 06 Legacy 2.5i Wagon	The guys at Prodrive actually recommended the STi IC with the PPP3, and they did not have any issues using the STi up-pipe instead of the Prodrive one.

10-08-2006, 02:23 AM	#19
FromageTheDog Scooby Specialist Member#: 81095 Join Date: Feb 2005 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: Left seat. Vehicle: 2005 WRX sedan baby- bus. OS self-tuned!	Ah! I forget that the PPP3 replaces the UP. That makes sense -- there isn't much performance difference from one UP to another, unless you're talking externally gated, or whatever. Never heard about the IC bit though -- interesting to know.

05-08-2008, 08:14 PM	#20
haroman1188 Scooby Specialist Member#: 112129 Join Date: Apr 2006 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Kent, WA Vehicle: 03 wrx wagon psm 04 sti jbp	anyone need a prodrive ecu. i have the stage 3 pack but im upgrading and cant reflash the prodrive one. i have it for sale once i get a stock ecu in the mail. just seeing if anyone is interested?