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Old 08-17-2006, 02:49 PM   #1
ricochet
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Default Project 2005 2.5RS: Zero to Hero

2005 2.5RS N/A Build vs. Subaru WRX STI
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Old 08-19-2006, 10:14 AM   #2
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in the ad in the latest mag you have 2006 wrx pictured...yet you say it's vs an sti??
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Old 08-19-2006, 12:25 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxbert
in the ad in the latest mag you have 2006 wrx pictured...yet you say it's vs an sti??
Wow, someone finally caught that?! That picture was from our Pikes Peak STI test, but yes, that's me driving the stock WRX up the mountain.

We're pitting it against an STI, however. We can't say if it's going to be an 04, 05, or 06 we'll be running against. Really, we'd like to pit it against an 05, since that was our target when we started the build, and the 06 is a more advanced vehicle. But, we''ll have to see what Subaru will be able to provide (most likely an 06)...unless we can find someone with a STOCK 05 that wants to be the challenger.

R
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Old 08-21-2006, 12:20 PM   #4
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i'm an auditor what can i say!
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Old 08-22-2006, 02:49 AM   #5
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Default cool

sounds nice.
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Old 08-23-2006, 12:24 PM   #6
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How much power is it putting down, now?

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Old 08-23-2006, 12:32 PM   #7
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About 220 at the crank. More or less depending on how much drivetrain loss you want to factor. More details after this issue hits the street.
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Old 08-23-2006, 12:45 PM   #8
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cool.
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Old 08-29-2006, 07:23 PM   #9
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Ryan I've got your R160 in my hot little hands, what do you have for a trade?
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Old 09-01-2006, 03:03 PM   #10
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This is a repost from "another" board where we are talking about building NA Subarus... read enjoy my thoughts:

I think AVCS would be fun to play with and is basically, not entirely, but basically what Honda has been doing with VTEC for so long. That way you can have a very radical cam at WOT and still idle... basically. Really, when we did the dyno tuning, the bottom-end power was already there before the tune. The compression really didn't add too much top-end, just more torque, which is what we were expecting. We were just hoping for more top-end. Because we are limited to one cam lobe per set of valves we are stuck with running a more mild cam to keep streetability, although we could probably go with a little more wild cam but what would that get us? The heads were done in such a way that they are a good street porting job, says Rob at Pineapple. He told me that if he were going for a more aggressive job, he would have done the heads completely differently and possibly welded in material and completely changed the shape of the ports etc (<-he was talking a little over my head but you get the point).

If we were to do DOHC VTEC (HA AVCS Couldn't resist) heads that might free up some more power by giving us the ability to have more lift/duration at the top... but we might have to rework the heads. Also, the SOHC heads aren't really that bad they come stock with roller-rockers and really should be able to spin out into the the stratosphere.

One thing we did not do is test to see if we were restricted somewhere. By this I mean compare vacuum against grams of air per second flowing past the MAF (which you can do with your AP in protuner which as a consumer you can't buy). This would have told us straight away if the motor was being choaked or if it was at VE and that is all.

We did experiemnt with octane booster (Torco race blend 1 full bottle to a tank of gas is ~ 104octane) and that did not really help that much at all. The gains in hp by going lean on the top with more timing produced 1-2hp at the most and pushed us so very near the knock threshold that it just was not worth the few extra ponies.

Time and money are the enemy here. We need to get the car done so it can take on the STi at Subiefest. We will not stop messing with the car, it may just not happen as fast as we would all like. Nor, will it be cost effective. Taking at another angle
You can build an NA honda to run with an STi. Don't start saying BS, you can it has been done. You can get about 250whp maybe a bit less out of a 1.8liter DOHC type R motor (B18C5) and a bit more out of a 2-liter frankenstein and then more again out of the prelude motor (H22A). Ok, but these engines have been around since... well the early 90s. There is probably tens of thousands of hours in development time in these engines and millions of dollars has been spent doing so. Now, you can buy a 250hp crate racing engine and plug and play and go race.

You cannot say the same for the 2.5 liter NA subaru motor, here in the US. Some people have done it, but they aren't really sharing how they have developed that power. I read the site about the 230hp NA race motor... they are doing something that they aren't telling the rest of us and they say so on the site.

It will take time, effort and money to get these engines on par with say a Honda Type-R engine... but the questions are: Is it worth it? and who wants it? I don't see lots of people clamouring for this, they will go turbo or stay slow with mild mods IMHO. I hope I am wrong and these engines develope, hell we are doing our part in exploring this platform.
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Old 09-01-2006, 09:06 PM   #11
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Wow, great post!

Keep us informed on how everything is going! I hope you can get it all done in time for subiefest!
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Old 09-05-2006, 12:02 PM   #12
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i have a question. There is mounds of work documentation out there for prepping Subaru motors for light and moderate aircraft duty, especially the EA series. Is any of this useful as far as research?
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Old 09-26-2006, 11:24 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanchou View Post
i have a question. There is mounds of work documentation out there for prepping Subaru motors for light and moderate aircraft duty, especially the EA series. Is any of this useful as far as research?
Not likely, since airplane motors are more focused on reliability than performance.

You can catch a glimpse of what the ZtH project looks like these days in this video we just did:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bdfPu17X8w
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Old 10-03-2006, 01:45 PM   #14
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how about dropping some weight from the car to increase your acceleration, braking and handling numbers?
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Old 10-03-2006, 11:43 PM   #15
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that's fine , but you can only drop a certain amount easily, then spend a ton of money to get a little bit lower.
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Old 10-20-2006, 01:31 PM   #16
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i managed to pull 350lbs out of my rally car w/o spending a dime..its there if the effort to do it is.
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Old 10-22-2006, 03:05 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STiShawn View Post
i managed to pull 350lbs out of my rally car w/o spending a dime..its there if the effort to do it is.
I assume you gutted the interior?
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Old 11-09-2006, 12:52 AM   #18
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Huh, I just got around to reading this. Where did you find 350lbs of stuff. The seats don't weigh alot, nor do the headliner or the carpet. Sure you can take out the stereo (but we do like our tunes) and all the sound deadening... Where did you find 350lbs? That is ALOT of weight. I guess you can remove all the glass and replace it with plexi-glass. No door panels, no window regulators.
You know they have a word for this kind of car... its called a RACE CAR. And after driving 1200 miles to Vegas in the car as it is... I would NOT want to do it in a stripped out rattle can of a car. No thanks.
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Old 11-09-2006, 02:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeanEditor View Post
Huh, I just got around to reading this. Where did you find 350lbs of stuff. The seats don't weigh alot, nor do the headliner or the carpet. Sure you can take out the stereo (but we do like our tunes) and all the sound deadening... Where did you find 350lbs? That is ALOT of weight. I guess you can remove all the glass and replace it with plexi-glass. No door panels, no window regulators.
You know they have a word for this kind of car... its called a RACE CAR. And after driving 1200 miles to Vegas in the car as it is... I would NOT want to do it in a stripped out rattle can of a car. No thanks.
Well....

Here:


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Old 11-09-2006, 03:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeanEditor View Post
Huh, I just got around to reading this. Where did you find 350lbs of stuff. The seats don't weigh alot, nor do the headliner or the carpet. Sure you can take out the stereo (but we do like our tunes) and all the sound deadening... Where did you find 350lbs? That is ALOT of weight. I guess you can remove all the glass and replace it with plexi-glass. No door panels, no window regulators.
You know they have a word for this kind of car... its called a RACE CAR. And after driving 1200 miles to Vegas in the car as it is... I would NOT want to do it in a stripped out rattle can of a car. No thanks.
I've pulled 350 out of my STI thus far as well, and thats with bigger wheels, bigger brakes, evo 8 recaros and a full interior and every chassis brace that cusco makes. The weight is there, you just have to find it...

Or ask me where it is
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Old 11-14-2006, 08:44 AM   #21
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wow..should have checked back sooner since the Mean Editor is flaming on me for building a race car..never said it was a street car, nor did I say YOU had to pull 350lbs from your car..I was simply mentioning that if you look, and spend some time you can find lots of weight in a car you can do without.

And FWIW I will be driving it as the 00 car at the local rally America event...do I need to post a link to my build?
Oh, I still have power GLASS windows in the front doors, the only plexi is in the rear doors..may not be 1200 miles, but 200 on gravel is worse then pavement

No need to flame me
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Old 11-14-2006, 12:51 PM   #22
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no one was flaming you.
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Old 11-15-2006, 01:30 PM   #23
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Just seemed to be full of attitude and doubt about my information.
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Old 11-16-2006, 01:57 AM   #24
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Anyway, back to the RS. It will be at Subiefest taking on the STI. All motor Vs. Boost. Which will win? You have to make it to Subiefest to find out... or wait for the results in the next issue.
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Old 11-16-2006, 11:27 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeanEditor View Post
Anyway, back to the RS. It will be at Subiefest taking on the STI. All motor Vs. Boost. Which will win? You have to make it to Subiefest to find out... or wait for the results in the next issue.
You should do a lap in the wagon on Sat. I have front and rear sways just chillin in the garage but I'm lazy and haven't put them on.
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