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Old 08-19-2006, 06:35 PM   #1
kpowell12
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Default Aem Ems + Avcs

OK, i posted a thread on aempower.com. But i figured nasioc sees more traffic then that so i will post here as well.

My current setup on my 2004 Subaru Impreza WRX:

-Axis Stage 3 block
-JDM Version 7 ported STi heads
-Ultimate Racing T04S 61mm turbo
-All supporting mods.

Is there anyone that has parameters of how to get AVCS working via AEM? We dont want to go into it and do trial and error, one small error when messing with cam timing could result in engine failure.

So my question is, is there a way someone can show me a stock ecu map of how AVCS works on a stock ecu? That would give us an idea of how exactly it works, giving us a better starting position on creating a map.

Any info will be much appreciated.

-Keith
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Old 08-22-2006, 11:42 PM   #2
kpowell12
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Ya, apparently noone has done this?
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Old 08-23-2006, 01:19 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpowell12
Ya, apparently noone has done this?

I don't know anybody who has done this via aem. Many of us have used it via the Hydra.

I know the AVCS advances the timing 5 degrees, I believe. How it's tuned, I don't know. Good luck.
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Old 08-28-2006, 06:35 PM   #4
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The only people I've seen do this is with a Hydra, for a stand alone.
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Old 08-28-2006, 07:00 PM   #5
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No one will share their map as it's just too dangerous to do that. You really need to sneek up on the values. I tuned mine, but I must say without a dyno you just don't know a whole lot about how much you are improving. I had Phil's map to give me a basic outline too, that help tremendously.

OK, I don't want to leave you high and dry so here is an example:
http://www.forums.evolutionm.net/att...chmentid=93138

This is a MIVEC map for the Evo, but the basic shape and principles remain the same. Your peak intake advance will occur in the mid RPM range. You want avoid too much advance at low RPM as you can cause the car to buck. No advance at idle. Look at that map, the load values are basically 100 equals 1 psi and 200 equals about 16-18 psi. You'll see the peak values occur mid RPM and "in boost". In high vacuum to early boost the values are lower.

All the maps I've seen has this basic shape more or less. My current map is much like the EVO's where whole regions are basically at the same level of advance and there are some transition values in between basically "plateaus" of advance values.

There is 20 degrees total advance on the STI. In the Hydra this is broken into 40 steps or 1 step = 0.5 degrees of intake cam advance. I tuned by increasing of decreasing in 2 units steps or 1 degree changes, so very slowly.

If you advance too much at mid-high RPM the cams will "flutter". The sound is unique. It sounds like someone opened a little door on the motor and all the sudden you can hear the valves opening and closing (because they are). Based on tuning with a cold car the flutter is somewhat a function of the oil pressure, higher oil pressure, more likely to reach "flutter" pressure. This fact may also suggest that the weight of your oil may affect AVCS tuning as well even though with the Hydra it is closed loop.

Maybe we should start an AVCS tuning thread and get a bunch of people with their experience. I've been able to slightly improve boost onset, and anyone who has turned the AVCS off can tell you how much it affects lag.
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Old 08-29-2006, 12:31 AM   #6
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I started an AVCS tuning thread in the main/general Tuning forum.
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Old 08-29-2006, 12:47 AM   #7
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Hmmm, is there a Start up cal for the Subaru. I remember seeing one but not sure. I'm actually tuning a Honda Motor right now so I've got a some insight with the AEM ECU. If it was me, I woud leave the AVCS alone until you've dialed in a decent map above and beyond the startup map. Once that's out of the way, start adding in advance (I think 15* max is possible). This is of course assuming you're comfortable with all of the various data feedback (knock activity, AFR, Timing, etc) which is really the basics for tuning any other ECU.
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Old 08-29-2006, 03:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bboy View Post
No one will share their map as it's just too dangerous to do that. You really need to sneek up on the values. I tuned mine, but I must say without a dyno you just don't know a whole lot about how much you are improving. I had Phil's map to give me a basic outline too, that help tremendously.

OK, I don't want to leave you high and dry so here is an example:
http://www.forums.evolutionm.net/att...chmentid=93138

This is a MIVEC map for the Evo, but the basic shape and principles remain the same. Your peak intake advance will occur in the mid RPM range. You want avoid too much advance at low RPM as you can cause the car to buck. No advance at idle. Look at that map, the load values are basically 100 equals 1 psi and 200 equals about 16-18 psi. You'll see the peak values occur mid RPM and "in boost". In high vacuum to early boost the values are lower.

All the maps I've seen has this basic shape more or less. My current map is much like the EVO's where whole regions are basically at the same level of advance and there are some transition values in between basically "plateaus" of advance values.

There is 20 degrees total advance on the STI. In the Hydra this is broken into 40 steps or 1 step = 0.5 degrees of intake cam advance. I tuned by increasing of decreasing in 2 units steps or 1 degree changes, so very slowly.

If you advance too much at mid-high RPM the cams will "flutter". The sound is unique. It sounds like someone opened a little door on the motor and all the sudden you can hear the valves opening and closing (because they are). Based on tuning with a cold car the flutter is somewhat a function of the oil pressure, higher oil pressure, more likely to reach "flutter" pressure. This fact may also suggest that the weight of your oil may affect AVCS tuning as well even though with the Hydra it is closed loop.

Maybe we should start an AVCS tuning thread and get a bunch of people with their experience. I've been able to slightly improve boost onset, and anyone who has turned the AVCS off can tell you how much it affects lag.

Excellent. I'm waiting for this 'hurricane' to blow over, then i will start the tuning process again. Thanks for the info, hopefully we can get some more ppl to comment on this topic.
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Old 08-29-2006, 04:38 PM   #9
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Any idea of what the signal is to control the cams? 5v, pulsed 12v signal, pulse width signal?
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Old 08-29-2006, 06:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kay95 View Post
Any idea of what the signal is to control the cams? 5v, pulsed 12v signal, pulse width signal?
I would love to know this too. Maybe bboy knows?
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Old 06-01-2007, 07:39 PM   #11
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bumpity for an update...
really torn between hydra and AEM because of this.
get a price break on AEM and like some of the features (real antilag and 4 channel EGT especially)
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:58 AM   #12
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any updates on this? its been awhile.
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Old 08-07-2008, 05:54 PM   #13
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car is back to stock being sold.
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Old 08-07-2008, 06:59 PM   #14
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...........


:'-(
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Old 08-09-2008, 10:27 AM   #15
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yeah.. <3
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Old 08-09-2008, 08:58 PM   #16
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Did you ever get it to work with AVCS? How much are you selling the AME EMS for?
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Old 08-10-2008, 01:14 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by DemiSlayer View Post
Did you ever get it to work with AVCS? How much are you selling the AME EMS for?
My solution was to just turn the boost up.

AEM EMS has a pending sale, but i will PM you if the deal falls through.
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:13 PM   #18
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Thats the solution for everything More Boost!
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Old 08-11-2008, 09:08 PM   #19
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Since this got brought back up and it applies to the new AEM EMS for STi...

Yes it comes with a startup cal.

The AVCS solenoids receive switched 12+ and ground. Depending on which EMS you're using power or ground may be pulsed, generally ground with a PWM out (stock and AEM EMS work this way).

The RH and LH cam sensors are hall effect units which receive 5+ switched power.

All those are involved in cam control since it operates in closed loop with the AEM EMS, same as stock.

You'll have to play with the values yourself to optimize them, but the startup cal has a base table already set up. Like most standalones, the potential is there for you to pull a bonehead move and really screw something up. If you change the table for VVC#1, make sure you duplicate the changes in VVC#2 so both sides of the engine operate the cams the same.

The cruise control stalk is used to calibrate the DBW throttle system which is a cool little feature and the EMS even controls the TGVs, although I can't imagine a car with a standalone still having the TGV guts intact.

Last edited by Innovative Tuning; 08-11-2008 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 08-24-2008, 12:56 PM   #20
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Mike, does the new AEM DBW unit for the STi run low impedance injectors as well as high impedance ones or do you still need an upgrade?

Thanks,
Russ
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Old 08-25-2008, 09:12 AM   #21
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It doesn't drive them directly. Resistor boxes out of old DSMs and Accords are 5-25 bucks.
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:27 AM   #22
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Good to know!

I did some digging on Injector Drivers vs. resister boxes. There are a couple popular aftermarket Low Impedance Injector drivers out there. One from AEM that can do 10 injectors (overkill) for $300 and one from FJO that drives 4 injectors (perfect) for $150.

These are true Peak & Hold drivers, so I imagine would be better than a resister pack. Sounds like you can get away with resister packs on smaller (850cc and less) injectors, but for larger ones, you want the full power of the peak & hold driver.

Thanks!
Russ
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Old 08-26-2008, 11:02 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlavalle View Post
Good to know!

These are true Peak & Hold drivers, so I imagine would be better than a resister pack. Sounds like you can get away with resister packs on smaller (850cc and less) injectors, but for larger ones, you want the full power of the peak & hold driver.

Thanks!
Russ
You do infact get a better idle and cruise with the Peak and hold driver (From AEM atleast, this is the one I've used.) But probably not really going to notice it until you go over 1000cc injectors. I also like the idea of a 10 channel so you can upgrade later to more injectors if you want. AEM allows you to phase the injectors separately also if you want.
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Old 08-27-2008, 12:31 AM   #24
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here is what i have found about AVCS and the 30-1810u

The AVCS will allow you to advance the intake cams up to 40 degrees at lower engine speeds which will greatly increase the amount of low end torque the engine makes. This will spool the turbo sooner and makes the low end throttle response better because the engine is making more power. With the AVCS properly tuned on a stock USDM STi, I've seen gains of 30-40 ft.-lbs. of torque in the lower RPM ranges as compared to having the AVCS deactivated. On Nissan VQ engines, I've seen gains of over 100 ft.-lbs. with the cam timing properly tuned vs. deactivated. You will want to use the AVCS, unless you like not having more power.

To use the USDM STi motor's AVCS using the 30-1810 EMS, you will need to make the following changes:

1. The JPT2 jumper must be changed inside the EMS to switch the cam input from magnetic to hall effect as the cam sensors are different between the '02 WRX and the STi.
2. Wire the signal wire from the right hand cam sensor to the CAM input (B1) on the 1810.
3. Wire the signal wire from the left hand cam sensor to the VSS input (A1) on the 1810.
4. Wire switched 12V & ground to both the cam sensors to power them.
5. Wire the right hand side AVCS solenoid to switched 12V and the Injector 9 output (E16/C16) on the 1810.
5. Wire the left hand side AVCS solenoid to switched 12V and the Injector 10 output (E17/C17) on the 1810.

With it wired in this manner, you can then copy over the VVC settings from the 30-1820 base map to get it going.
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Old 08-27-2008, 10:24 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DemiSlayer View Post
You will want to use the AVCS, unless you like having big-aggressive cams, less load on the oiling system, large valves, long rods and/or high compression ratio...
fixed it for you...AVCS isn't for everyone and sometimes the trade off is worth it
the more of those you choose, the less room you have to play with cam timing and more of a gamble AVCS becomes.

back to on topic...sorry
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