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Old 08-21-2006, 10:39 AM   #1
xolosis
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Default Re-scaling Engine Load

How does one go about re-scaling engine load when making more power? Current map has engine load columns designed for ithe cars previous tune making 50whp less.

Greatful for any info?


Anyone able to comment?
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Last edited by xolosis; 08-23-2006 at 06:56 AM.
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Old 08-24-2006, 04:46 PM   #2
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Your Ecutek tuner would have to do that or you can do it yourself with the free openECU tools and a Tactrix cable... assuming your ECU is not locked by the last Ecutek tune.
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Old 08-24-2006, 06:36 PM   #3
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^^^ Can you explain it? I've dug and dug via ecuEdit and can't seem to rescale an OEM rom to save my life. Maybe I'm just making it harder then it needs to be. There's just no way to change the load values on the top axis....
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Old 08-24-2006, 09:46 PM   #4
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I haven't used ECU Edit, but Enginuity allows you to change the load columns to change the scaling.
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Old 08-24-2006, 11:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
^^^ Can you explain it? I've dug and dug via ecuEdit and can't seem to rescale an OEM rom to save my life. Maybe I'm just making it harder then it needs to be. There's just no way to change the load values on the top axis....
Go to the Edit menu for your table. There will be selections for column and row edit (and shortcut keys). To select the value, don't click on the axis values, but the data values in the same column or row you want to change and then select the row or column edit in the menu (or use the shortcuts) and it will allow you to change the axis value.
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Old 08-25-2006, 07:17 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blennophobic
Your Ecutek tuner would have to do that or you can do it yourself with the free openECU tools and a Tactrix cable... assuming your ECU is not locked by the last Ecutek tune.
I'm using Enginuity to tune my map. The problem is when I attempted to do this my timinig and fuel maps were off. Must be a black art as I've worked out my max engine load value is close to 4.2, however rescaling the other columns is a mystery.
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Old 08-25-2006, 10:33 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tea cups
Go to the Edit menu for your table. There will be selections for column and row edit (and shortcut keys). To select the value, don't click on the axis values, but the data values in the same column or row you want to change and then select the row or column edit in the menu (or use the shortcuts) and it will allow you to change the axis value.
Cool, thanks.
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Old 08-25-2006, 11:07 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xolosis
I'm using Enginuity to tune my map. The problem is when I attempted to do this my timinig and fuel maps were off. Must be a black art as I've worked out my max engine load value is close to 4.2, however rescaling the other columns is a mystery.
If you rescale all the columns, you are going to have to make the appropriate changes to your data as well. An easier way to do it would be to look at your lowest load sites and see if the fuel and timing are similar. You can lop off the lowest 1-3 load sites, if the values are identical or close to it and shift all the timing or fuel values to the left by the amount that you cut. Then add that number of columns to the high end and add the highest load numbers you want and tune those columns appropriately. That way, all the other values match their appropriate load from before and you won't have to retune those columns.
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Old 08-25-2006, 12:07 PM   #9
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Thanks alot Tea cups,

Will re-scaling the load columns have any performance benefits? Or does it just make it easier for the Tuner to see whats going on within the maps?

I mean re-scaling will only benefit the top end as when you exceed the max load site it uses data that was in the max load column. Is this correct?
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Old 08-25-2006, 12:16 PM   #10
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Right, the benefit is that you would now have control over the highest load areas whereas before anything above the last column would use the values from the last column. But you can't just redo every engine load value and be done with it. If you did this, you would have to look at redoing every timing or fuel cell in the map. So, say you rescaled every load column with your minimum load at a higher load than before and spaced out as before but ending up with some higher load columns at maximum. You would then be running timing and fuel that you used to run at lower engine loads at higher engine loads up to the previous map's maximum load. This could be more of a safety issue with your motor, as you would probably end up running more timing and leaner AFRs than you did before (up to the previous map's maximum load).
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Old 08-28-2006, 12:03 PM   #11
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I've completed rescalling here as well starting from 1.40, gapping a bit through the 2.* areas and concentrating from 3.3*-4.90. The car is running great now, I wonder what kind of numbers it could put down on the dyno...
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Old 09-06-2006, 10:41 PM   #12
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Interesting. I'm in the same dilemma. Running Engine Loads of 4.6+, and getting pinging where I didn't before. Looking to rescale the map(s). So, I'd like to understand a little more before I tinker.

Do the load numbers and/or columns for the Ignition Correction map need to line up with or correlate to the Base Ignition Timing map, or the Fuel map(s)?

Does changing any one map directly effect how the ECU reads other maps, or are they followed independently by the ECU?

So far I've been VERY happy with the OpenECU stuff!

Last edited by stanton; 09-06-2006 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 09-07-2006, 01:54 AM   #13
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duplicate post... ooops
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Old 09-07-2006, 01:55 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanton View Post
Interesting. I'm in the same dilemma. Running Engine Loads of 4.6+, and getting pinging where I didn't before. Looking to rescale the map(s). So, I'd like to understand a little more before I tinker.

Do the load numbers and/or columns for the Ignition Correction map need to line up with or correlate to the Base Ignition Timing map, or the Fuel map(s)?

Does changing any one map directly effect how the ECU reads other maps, or are they followed independently by the ECU?

So far I've been VERY happy with the OpenECU stuff!
They dont necessarily NEED to align, but making adjustments are allot easier when they do. So far I think I'm at the peak of the ej205 w/ the stock turbo. Load peaks ~5, max at 5.16, max boost 18.5 @ 3300 tapering to 13.5 at redline with 216 g/s. To be quiet honost the injectors are my limiting factor now, I'm getting 95%+ IDC above 6000 rpms.
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Old 08-05-2007, 10:02 PM   #15
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ok, just a quick question, on my way outta the house, had to skim...

not only should I change the load on my low-det a/f map, I should make identical changes to the hi-det map AND timing maps...?

thanks, replaced p&p td-04 w/sr-30 and every breathing mod you could think of, so you can imagine how odd my ecu is acting...

650cc deatchwerks, sr-30, walbro, APS cai & t/i pipe, HUGE tmic.
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Old 08-08-2007, 10:48 AM   #16
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I would think it would be dangerous for the ecu to use a lower load value in, for example, the base timing maps when the engine is running at a higher load. As load goes up you always want to gradually retard the timing. With fuel, you want to gradually enrich, for det protection.
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:50 PM   #17
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When I rescaled my map, I grabbed two columns and averaged them (2.68 and 2.88 became 2.78). That let me shift the rest of the columns to the left and add a new column at the end. I did that a few times to get the table scaled how I liked it. If you're going to do that, make sure it's two columns that don't have any large changes between them or you'll throw off the map in that area.
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Old 10-27-2007, 01:35 AM   #18
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When rescaling, do we need to keep the first column atleast...the .22g/rev information?

Where does the ECU get its value for loads less than .22g/rev?
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Old 10-30-2007, 04:53 PM   #19
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Be careful about scaling and pinging. When you add higher load sites, you can end up with a condition where the timing is to high at low RPM and high load because you did not change the timing values to reflect the higher load. If you are scaling, you have to look at the whole shape of the fuel or timing map and alter that shape to reflect the higher load--don't just change the X-axis. Consider the shape of the map and mimic it with new higher loads. Look for trends in the values.

I remove resolution from where the engine spends the least time. Drive around and you'll see where that is. I find that low boost levels are often only "visited" at low RPM, for instance rarely are you at 5000 RPM and 5 psi of boost.
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Old 10-31-2007, 04:44 AM   #20
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Interesting things happen.

So I been having a high idle speed problem so I went to get a log tonight just some short pulls nothing major. Get home, I figure out it's the Throttle cable, so I look at my logs.

My base timing map only goes out to 2.14 EL (02 WRX). But I had a few points where I was hitting 2.20 EL or higher. And something funny with timing happened there. My timing just before and just after the 2.14+ EL periods was 16.5, but for every point and a few after where the EL was above 2.14, the timing dropped to 14. KC map reflected this change due to the new calculation, but other than that, everything stayed the same. IAM never dropped, no knock, nothing.

So I went over the max EL for my map and I lost 2.5 degrees timing. And while throttle remained at 100, MAF flow actually went down with an increase in RPM due to the timing drop.

So I rescaled my Base timing, OL fuel and advance map to above the max EL I was seeing, and viola! 16.5 in the same RPM bands above the stock max 2.14 EL, which matches my base+advance timing closely.

A fun few hours anyway.

/Brox
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Old 10-31-2007, 10:29 AM   #21
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Yeah, I seem to be tickling the edge or my load limits with some of my pulls. I was planning on rescaling to perhaps 2.5 EL. I was looking at the lowest table to see if I have some columns that look like they can be yanked to make room at top. I noticed my fueling map and timing map don't run up to the same EL limit.
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Old 10-31-2007, 02:30 PM   #22
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I'm going to be running a few more logs today with my rescaled EL numbers and see if the reported EL is still pushing the upper limit of the map or if rescaling it has come over the top of my previous number.

I'm wondering if reported EL is constrained by the column values or if it is independent.

/Brox
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Old 10-31-2007, 02:52 PM   #23
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I'm thinking it's independent. Seems to be simply a (G/2/RPM) calculation.

I notice you're talking about a load of 5. I'm assuming you're looking at the (2* G/s/RPM) column in Enginuity. In the ECU, I believe the loads are (1 * G/S/RPM) so, my 2.5 would correspond to your 5.
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