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Old 05-08-2007, 01:53 PM   #251
Master2192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie
Your new Cam map has some serious flaws in it. I guess with more experience you will realize this. The biggest flaw is that you have changed the cruise and part throttle Cam advance. Now mileage will suffer a great deal as will emisions and response. Those load rows are very light. You are adding alot of cam where its not needed. Again. More testing of adding cam in and not retuning the timing and AFR maps. Remember. The only volume knob for power is boost. There is only one correct timing setting. It must be found. AFR has a larger span and other reasons to consider. In cyl cooling and egt control as well as a knock buffer. I dont know any other way to say what I said without sounding like a jerk... Sorry.

Like other maps in the ecu each car will have a different optimal cam map. what works on a VF39 wont work well at all on a 35R. I just got back from Minnisota where I tuned 14 cars. One was a JDM 2.0 spec C motor. That car picked up huge with a remap of the cams. I wish I would have printed the plots. It came in at 250whp on a super low reading dyno dynamics at 25 psi. I retuned it at 20 psi and it pulled 320whp. I wont disclose the original tuner. No point to flame. But he had the absolute wrong cam map and timing map in that ecu. A stock sti makes under 200whp on this dyno for example.

I just wish I had control of the exhaust cams. Some huge top end could be gained.

Clark
Can you verify that the 07 STI has a completely different cam than the 04-06 STIs? The 07 STI runs huge cam advance in cruise areas without ill effects.

I will accept that my cam timing probably has some flaws, serious flaws though? I am not sure it is that serious. For instance you say response should suffer with that timing, when we actually saw the opposite. Once ignition timing and AFR were retuned the low end torque and throttle response at cruise were greatly improved. Mileage may suffer though, I will have to wait until the owner reports back on that part.

I don't understand why you mentioned adding cam in and not retuning timing and AFR. We did retune, and we saw gains.

I see that with repeated requests that you still haven't added much substance to this discussion. So I've got a question for you.

How do YOU go about testing/finding the best AVCS map? So far what you've said is there is only one correct timing and it must be found, and with each change you need to redo AFR and ignition timing. To me that sounds like a minimum of 30 complete retunes with hundreds of pulls each just to get a proper AVCS profile for the car.
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Old 05-08-2007, 02:17 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master2192 View Post
I see that with repeated requests that you still haven't added much substance to this discussion. So I've got a question for you.

How do YOU go about testing/finding the best AVCS map?
your tone is pretty accusatory, and clark doesn't owe anybody a damned thing.

it sounds like you want a free knowedge transfer of valuable information he's gathered over the years and there is absolutely no requirement of him to do so.

in fact, given the nature of the complexity involved with AVCS tuning i would expect him to play it very close to the vest. if i were you, i'd be happy he's even posting in the damned thread in the first place.
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Old 05-08-2007, 02:37 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie View Post
I just got back from Minnisota where I tuned 14 cars. One was a JDM 2.0 spec C motor. That car picked up huge with a remap of the cams. I wish I would have printed the plots. It came in at 250whp on a super low reading dyno dynamics at 25 psi. I retuned it at 20 psi and it pulled 320whp.
Ask and you shall recieve.

http://www.lseperformance.com/galler...g2_itemId=3771

It's too bad that you were so busy sorting out a lot of mechanical crap this past Saturday, Clark. I was really hoping to bother you some and pick your brain a bit, hehehe.
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Old 05-08-2007, 02:38 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master2192 View Post
Can you verify that the 07 STI has a completely different cam than the 04-06 STIs? The 07 STI runs huge cam advance in cruise areas without ill effects.

I will accept that my cam timing probably has some flaws, serious flaws though? I am not sure it is that serious. For instance you say response should suffer with that timing, when we actually saw the opposite. Once ignition timing and AFR were retuned the low end torque and throttle response at cruise were greatly improved. Mileage may suffer though, I will have to wait until the owner reports back on that part.

I don't understand why you mentioned adding cam in and not retuning timing and AFR. We did retune, and we saw gains.

I see that with repeated requests that you still haven't added much substance to this discussion. So I've got a question for you.

How do YOU go about testing/finding the best AVCS map? So far what you've said is there is only one correct timing and it must be found, and with each change you need to redo AFR and ignition timing. To me that sounds like a minimum of 30 complete retunes with hundreds of pulls each just to get a proper AVCS profile for the car.
I have thousands of pulls. I have over 2000 maps of tuned subarus. I live and breath subaru and evo tuning. I will probably be dead in short order from the carbon monoxide poisoning. I already got diagonosed with cancer 2 year ago. I know in a perfect world you want me to post "Do this" and with all my maps. But I cant do that. What I can do is help this community as much as I can and thats what I do. If you want me to teach you, hire me. 7 shops on this board have done that. Its called Consulting. Sometimes People really get offended by my responses. They are so trigger happy to spout off. But learn this.. I dont mean to offend but I dont pull any punches. Would you rather me not say anything about your map? I can do that also. For now good luck with your tuning man. My advice to you is to not alter the lower half of the map to much. Its run this way for cruise emisions and mileage. Some testing with a 5 gas will show you what I mean. The 07 is a different car. It needs a different map. Has anyone datalogged the cams after a reset to see how they sit before the ecu aligns them? Has anyone thought to tune each cam seperate?

Clark
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Old 05-08-2007, 02:41 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master2192 View Post
How do YOU go about testing/finding the best AVCS map? So far what you've said is there is only one correct timing and it must be found, and with each change you need to redo AFR and ignition timing. To me that sounds like a minimum of 30 complete retunes with hundreds of pulls each just to get a proper AVCS profile for the car.
Well considering that's he's dyno tuned litterally 1000s of cars, I would imagine it has been an ongoing build of his vast database and knowledge over the years.



edit: I guess he beat me to it, lol.
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Old 05-08-2007, 02:41 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by wall of tvs View Post
Ask and you shall recieve.

http://www.lseperformance.com/galler...g2_itemId=3771

It's too bad that you were so busy sorting out a lot of mechanical crap this past Saturday, Clark. I was really hoping to bother you some and pick your brain a bit, hehehe.
I wish we had the JDM car before and after up. Also what about Erics GT35R run? and how about the Silver car running lean at 6000?

Thanks for posting!


Clark
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Old 05-08-2007, 02:49 PM   #257
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For some reason, Josh didn't post Eric's graph...perhaps he forgot? The 35r hybrid car graph is up, but no AFR plot though.

The black 20g STi (with the initially messed up dtec) on 110 seemed pretty impressive to me...we are going out for a ride later on this evening.

here's what's been posted so far: http://www.lseperformance.com/galler...g2_itemId=3748
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Old 05-08-2007, 02:52 PM   #258
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THis one is the 06 WRX with VF39 with Cobb off the shelf map verus mine. Other then that I dont know what the others are.

http://www.lseperformance.com/galler...g2_itemId=3777
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Old 05-08-2007, 03:04 PM   #259
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I've got a couple graphs of my AFR vs. boost, I'll try to get them scanned today and get them up ASAP.
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Old 05-08-2007, 07:53 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie
I have thousands of pulls. I have over 2000 maps of tuned subarus. I live and breath subaru and evo tuning. I will probably be dead in short order from the carbon monoxide poisoning. I already got diagonosed with cancer 2 year ago. I know in a perfect world you want me to post "Do this" and with all my maps. But I cant do that. What I can do is help this community as much as I can and thats what I do. If you want me to teach you, hire me. 7 shops on this board have done that. Its called Consulting. Sometimes People really get offended by my responses. They are so trigger happy to spout off. But learn this.. I dont mean to offend but I dont pull any punches. Would you rather me not say anything about your map? I can do that also. For now good luck with your tuning man. My advice to you is to not alter the lower half of the map to much. Its run this way for cruise emisions and mileage. Some testing with a 5 gas will show you what I mean. The 07 is a different car. It needs a different map. Has anyone datalogged the cams after a reset to see how they sit before the ecu aligns them? Has anyone thought to tune each cam seperate?

Clark
If you've got ton of data then that is quite alright, I was hoping there was a way I could figure it out on my own but it will take more time. I do appreciate the advice you have given, and you can keep your maps for yourself. I did not mean to come across like I am attacking you, I have no idea who you are, the experience you have, or the reputation you have and did not mean to do that. It is good that you are helping the subie community, I don't know why I didn't see it before.

I recently lost a friend and have been in a mind funk the last couple days, please forgive me.

Ride5000 is a jerk though....
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Old 05-08-2007, 10:43 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie View Post
The flaw happend when DSM tuners got into the subaru market and did not test what works on Flat fours. Instead they applied years of DSM experience to subarus. SOme worked and some did not. It was common knowledge that Subaru motors need a huge hotside. They move alot of cool exhaust slower. The Turbo is 4 ft from the ports at least. On an inline undersquare 4cyl engine you can run a small housing and make great power. You cant do that on a Subaru. You will choke it off in short order. No amount of tuning will fix this. Even a huge increase in octane will net very little gains.

C
this is why VF40-18Gs will only make 25whp over a stock VF40 even though the theoretical compressor flowrate is increased 33%, right?

I'd like to see some EGBP readings on one of those turbos
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Old 05-09-2007, 08:50 AM   #262
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Huh? I am not a bum. I'm a jerk. I once had wealth, power, and the love of a beautiful woman. Now I only have two things: my friends and... uh... my thermos. Huh? My story? Okay. It was never easy for me. I was born a poor black child. I remember the days, sittin' on the porch with my family, singin' and dancin' down in Mississippi.
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Old 05-09-2007, 09:01 AM   #263
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And, let me guess... no rhythm?
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Old 05-09-2007, 06:54 PM   #264
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Huh? I am not a bum. I'm a jerk. I once had wealth, power, and the love of a beautiful woman. Now I only have two things: my friends and... uh... my thermos. Huh? My story? Okay. It was never easy for me. I was born a poor black child. I remember the days, sittin' on the porch with my family, singin' and dancin' down in Mississippi.
<wonders how many people on the board are old enough to have seen "The Jerk">
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Old 05-09-2007, 08:22 PM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie View Post
Has anyone datalogged the cams after a reset to see how they sit before the ecu aligns them? Has anyone thought to tune each cam seperate?

Clark
I have... Now you are about to give up part of the secret...
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Old 05-09-2007, 08:30 PM   #266
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Thats how I roll..

CLark
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Old 07-27-2007, 03:56 PM   #267
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Alright, so I came up with some ideas. I have been working on tuning a 05 STI with a perrin GT30R (.63 exhaust A/R, could be part of the problem here). The 05 STI engine is swapped into a 95 impreza, it has a custom 3" exhaust with a highflow cat installed after the downpipe, it also has drop in Mahle pistons and a perrin FMIC with blow-thru MAF.

Anyway, this car has proven haunted. Even at only 19 psi this car knocks right around 5500 rpm. I've tried richer afr, leaner afr, more timing, less timing, combinations of these and nothing. Even more, the problem comes and goes, it'll run perfect through a 4th gear pull or through all the gears sequentially and then later on it will knock everytime you get to this zone.

So thinking about some of the AVCS tests I've done and what AZScoobie has said about trying some AVCS in the top end. In the past I would get a certain boost, try several tests with different AVCS across the whole map and watch MAF drop off in the top end with excessive AVCS usage and it even feels like there is a rev limiter. BUT, I never adjusted timing or AFR.

The plan is, start adding little bits of AVCS starting around 5000 rpms on up. Tweak the timing and AFR, cross my fingers and hope it solves the issue and allows this car to make a lot more horsepower. Who knows, at this point the issue could even be mechanical related. But I figure it is worth a try.

Anyone got any input? Am I totally crazy?
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Old 07-27-2007, 04:34 PM   #268
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As Clark said earlier, the exhaust housing will play a difference in how you adjust valve timing. That is because of backpressure- with a smaller housing, you will get more backpressure and overlap will cause contamination of the charge going into the cylinder since EGBP > MAP. With a larger housing, the backpressure is revlieved and you can get away with adjusting valve timing to achieve higher cylinder pressures without worrying about contaminating the charge.

At least that is my understanding....I could be wrong.

As far as the knock goes, it sounds like you have something mechanical going on there. Maybe there is a misfire? Have you tried listening with detcans to see if it is truly knock? It seems weird that you keep getting knock no matter what you do.

Keep us posted!
Mike
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Old 07-27-2007, 05:44 PM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazymikie
As far as the knock goes, it sounds like you have something mechanical going on there. Maybe there is a misfire? Have you tried listening with detcans to see if it is truly knock? It seems weird that you keep getting knock no matter what you do.
It is audible knock for sure, misfires you can usually feel but I guess it is possible. We are trying some mechanical stuff though.
-New Spark Plugs, copper
-Installed a fuel pressure gauge, I thought it might be leaning out but pressure is good

Haven't had a chance to test it yet, but the owner just installed a new set of injectors and fuel rails last night. Will be testing tomorrow to see if the problem persists, if it does then I guess the last thing to look at would be the coils. I want to get this figured out though, a GT35R was a ton easier to tune so I hope it is just something simple.
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Old 07-27-2007, 07:57 PM   #270
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The .63 hotside has to go. Plus its an old t3 housing. Two strikes against you. You really need the .82. Have you done a comp and leak down test? Do this before anything else. If the bores are ovaled you will get knock as you increase boost no matter what you do.

What timing are you running in that area? Post a log and let me have a look.

Clark
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Old 07-27-2007, 10:35 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie
The .63 hotside has to go. Plus its an old t3 housing. Two strikes against you. You really need the .82. Have you done a comp and leak down test? Do this before anything else. If the bores are ovaled you will get knock as you increase boost no matter what you do.

What timing are you running in that area? Post a log and let me have a look.

Clark
Compression and Leak Tests came back good. The .63 is definitely holding us back I think. Maybe I should just tell him to build his new engine and get the 35R like he wants to do.

Anyway, here are some clips from the logs.
Code:
[TSMP][RPM][PSIG][MAF][TPS][LOD][KN][SNB][SIG][IDC%][IGN][VOEF][BMV][WBO2]
695.89 5268 +18.2 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 14.9  59.2 17.0  88 255  10.48
695.98 5317 +18.4 3.8  100   60   0  12.0 14.9  60.5 16.8  88 255  10.57
696.02 5337 +18.4 3.9  100   60   0  12.0 14.7  59.9 16.9  89 255  10.57
696.08 5392 +18.6 3.8  100   60   0  12.0 14.5  60.5 16.9  89 255  10.56
696.17 5450 +18.4 3.8  100   60   0  12.0 14.4  62.1 17.2  89 255  10.54
696.21 5468 +18.2 3.8  100   60   0  12.0 14.2  60.9 17.5  89 255  10.54
696.27 5431 +18.2 3.8  100   60   0  12.0 14.3  61.8 17.4  90 255  10.55
696.36 5464 +18.4 4.0  100   60  15  12.0 10.0  63.5 13.1  90 255  10.54
696.41 5510 +18.4 4.0  100   60  15  12.0 10.1  65.0 13.1  91 255  10.50
Code:
[TSMP][RPM][PSIG][MAF][TPS][LOD][KN][SNB][SIG][IDC%][IGN][VOEF][BMV][WBO2]
530.92 4903 +10.0 3.6  100   40   0  14.5 16.8  41.9 21.7  86 500  16.01
531.02 5076 +12.6 3.6  100   40   0  13.0 16.4  47.2 20.0  84 500  11.76
531.05 5205 +14.2 3.8  100   50   0  12.0 15.5  48.3 17.8  86 500  11.76
531.11 5282 +16.8 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 15.4  56.5 16.0  88 500  11.76
531.21 5395 +19.1 3.9  100   60   0  12.0 14.5  66.3 16.2  91 500  11.08
531.25 5618 +20.5 4.1  100   70   0  12.0 14.5  74.1 16.2  91 255  11.08
531.30 5727 +18.4 4.1  100   70   0  12.0 14.2  70.0 16.0  91 255  11.12
531.38 5776 +16.5 4.2  100   60   0  12.0 11.6  59.2 17.0  87 255  11.22
531.46 5892 +16.3 4.3  100   60   5  12.2 08.7   61.3 13.4  86 255  11.22
Those were the knock reports, heres a couple pull reports showing no knock sometimes at higher timing values.

Code:
[TSMP][RPM][PSIG][MAF][TPS][LOD][KN][SNB][SIG][IDC%][IGN][VOEF][BMV][WBO2]
006.86 5017 +17.2 3.8  100   60   0  12.0 15.9  55.4 18.0  87 235  10.72
006.91 5071 +17.2 3.9  100   60   0  12.0 15.8  54.7 18.0  88 235  10.72
006.96 5119 +17.0 3.9  100   60   0  12.0 15.7  54.0 18.0  88 235  10.71
007.05 5148 +17.2 3.8  100   60   0  12.0 15.6  58.7 18.0  87 235  10.69
007.12 5190 +16.8 3.8  100   60   0  12.0 15.7  55.3 18.0  87 235  10.69
007.15 5233 +17.2 3.8  100   60   0  12.0 15.5  55.0 18.0  87 235  10.72
007.23 5318 +17.2 3.9  100   60   0  12.0 15.4  56.6 18.0  88 235  10.79
007.32 5322 +17.2 3.8  100   60   0  12.0 15.3  57.4 18.0  88 235  10.79
007.36 5323 +17.0 3.8  100   60   0  12.0 15.3  57.6 18.0  88 235  10.78
007.41 5359 +17.0 3.9  100   60   0  12.0 15.0  57.4 18.0  88 235  10.78
007.50 5411 +17.2 3.9  100   60   0  12.0 14.9  59.9 18.0  88 235  10.78
007.55 5452 +17.0 3.9  100   60   0  12.0 15.0  59.5 18.0  89 235  10.73
007.61 5505 +16.8 3.8  100   60   0  12.0 14.8  60.5 18.7  89 235  10.67
007.69 5511 +16.5 3.9  100   60   0  12.0 14.8  58.6 19.1  89 235  10.67
007.74 5598 +16.3 3.8  100   50   0  12.0 14.7  59.4 18.0  90 235  10.67
007.79 5623 +16.5 3.8  100   60   0  12.0 14.6  59.3 19.1  89 235  10.69
007.88 5679 +16.1 4.0  100   50   0  12.0 14.5  59.4 19.2  89 235  10.73
007.93 5704 +16.1 4.0  100   50   0  12.0 14.4  59.4 19.0  90 235  10.73
007.97 5671 +16.3 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 14.4  60.9 19.0  89 235  10.74
008.05 5693 +16.3 3.9  100   60   0  12.0 14.4  61.2 19.2  89 235  10.78
008.14 5792 +16.1 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 14.1  60.3 19.2  89 235  10.78
008.17 5835 +16.5 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 13.9  61.5 19.0  89 235  10.79
008.24 5842 +17.2 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 14.1  63.3 19.0  89 235  10.80
008.33 5910 +17.2 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 13.9  62.7 19.0  89 235  10.57
008.36 5934 +17.7 4.1  100   60   0  12.0 14.1  64.7 19.0  89 235  10.57
008.43 5969 +17.9 4.1  100   60   0  12.0 13.7  64.1 19.0  88 235  10.57
008.52 5999 +17.7 4.1  100   60   0  12.0 12.9  64.1 19.0  88 235  10.67
008.55 6068 +17.5 4.1  100   60   0  12.0 13.0  63.5 19.0  87 235  10.67
008.62 6079 +17.9 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 12.7  67.2 19.0  87 235  10.67
008.71 6059 +17.7 4.3  100   60   0  12.0 12.6  65.6 19.0  86 235  10.73
008.75 6034 +17.9 4.1  100   60   0  12.0 12.4  64.8 20.0  86 235  10.73
008.81 6087 +18.4 4.1  100   60   0  12.0 12.5  65.8 19.0  86 235  10.73
008.91 6155 +17.9 4.1  100   60   0  12.0 12.6  63.1 20.0  86 235  10.71
008.96 6200 +17.9 4.2  100   60   0  12.0 12.9  64.7 20.0  86 235  10.74
009.00 6230 +17.9 4.2  100   60   0  12.0 13.1  64.4 20.0  86 235  10.75
009.08 6325 +18.2 4.2  100   60   0  12.0 13.6  66.5 20.0  85 235  10.75
009.16 6363 +17.5 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 13.7  64.9 20.0  85 235  10.68
009.21 6316 +17.2 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 13.8  65.5 20.0  85 235  10.67
009.27 6338 +16.8 4.1  100   60   0  12.0 14.1  65.0 20.0  85 235  10.67
009.37 6374 +16.3 3.9  100   60   0  12.0 14.5  62.1 21.1  83 235  10.67
009.40 6340 +16.5 3.9  100   50   0  12.0 14.7  62.1 21.6  83 235  10.67
009.47 6363 +16.5 4.0  100   50   0  12.0 14.9  62.5 21.2  84 235  10.71
009.56 6439 +16.8 4.0  100   50   0  12.0 15.3  63.6 21.0  83 235  10.83
009.59 6495 +16.8 4.1  100   60   0  12.0 15.4  62.7 21.0  83 235  10.80
009.66 6542 +17.0 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 15.4  66.2 21.0  83 235  10.76
009.75 6580 +17.2 4.1  100   60   0  12.0 15.8  63.7 21.0  82 235  10.76
009.79 6586 +17.2 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 15.7  65.5 22.0  83 235  10.77
Here is where I richened things up a little bit and reduce the timing. Thought all was well, next morning the car started knocking in the same place again (weather hadn't changed either)

Code:
007.31 5033 +19.1 3.9  100   60   0  12.0 16.0  58.3 15.7  88 255  10.95
007.34 5029 +19.6 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 15.9  58.3 15.7  88 255  10.83
007.41 5018 +19.3 4.0  100   70   0  12.0 15.8  62.6 16.0  89 255  10.60
007.51 5085 +19.8 3.9  100   70   0  12.0 15.5  63.5 16.0  88 255  10.62
007.53 5185 +19.3 4.1  100   70   0  12.0 15.5  63.7 16.0  88 255  10.66
007.60 5265 +19.8 3.9  100   70   0  12.0 15.3  62.7 16.0  89 255  10.79
007.70 5302 +18.4 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 15.3  60.9 16.0  88 255  10.55
007.73 5319 +18.6 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 15.3  60.8 16.0  89 255  10.55
007.80 5377 +18.4 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 15.3  60.7 16.1  89 255  10.55
007.88 5401 +18.4 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 15.1  62.4 16.1  89 255  10.61
007.92 5410 +18.2 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 15.2  61.5 16.2  89 255  10.61
007.98 5445 +17.9 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 14.9  62.5 16.3  89 255  10.61
008.08 5483 +18.2 3.9  100   60   0  12.0 14.7  62.6 16.4  90 255  10.61
008.13 5523 +18.4 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 14.8  62.7 16.5  90 255  10.60
008.17 5574 +17.9 4.1  100   60   0  12.0 14.7  63.8 16.5  90 255  10.60
008.26 5605 +18.2 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 14.5  65.0 16.5  91 255  10.60
008.34 5592 +18.2 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 14.3  63.7 16.5  91 255  10.60
008.38 5596 +18.2 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 14.3  65.7 16.5  91 255  10.62
008.45 5678 +17.9 4.1  100   60   0  12.0 14.2  64.3 16.6  90 255  10.63
008.52 5690 +18.2 4.1  100   60   0  12.0 14.1  64.1 16.5  90 255  10.58
008.58 5679 +17.9 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 14.0  64.5 16.6  90 255  10.58
008.63 5740 +17.9 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 14.1  65.4 16.9  90 255  10.58
008.72 5834 +18.2 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 13.9  65.4 16.6  90 255  10.61
008.76 5856 +18.4 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 14.0  66.8 16.5  90 255  10.61
008.82 5904 +18.6 4.1  100   60   0  12.0 12.9  68.2 16.5  89 255  10.58
008.90 5879 +19.6 4.2  100   70   0  12.0 12.9  70.9 16.3  89 255  10.54
008.95 5917 +19.8 4.1  100   70   0  12.0 12.8  70.0 16.0  89 255  10.58
009.01 5985 +20.3 4.3  100   70   0  12.0 12.6  70.4 17.0  89 255  10.61
009.09 6017 +19.3 4.1  100   70   0  12.0 12.7  69.0 16.9  87 255  10.61
009.16 6058 +18.6 4.3  100   60   0  12.0 12.8  66.8 16.9  87 255  10.53
009.22 6144 +18.6 4.1  100   60   0  12.0 12.7  66.7 17.1  86 255  10.53
009.27 6185 +18.4 4.1  100   60   0  12.0 12.7  67.9 17.2  86 255  10.53
009.36 6188 +17.9 4.1  100   60   0  12.0 13.0  66.2 17.3  85 255  10.57
009.40 6213 +18.2 4.1  100   60   0  12.0 13.1  68.2 17.2  86 255  10.57
009.46 6222 +18.9 4.1  100   60   0  12.0 13.0  68.7 17.2  86 255  10.58
009.55 6244 +19.1 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 13.9  70.8 17.3  86 255  10.60
009.60 6298 +18.4 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 14.1  69.1 17.2  86 255  10.60
009.64 6339 +19.1 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 14.1  69.1 17.2  86 255  10.58
009.73 6370 +19.1 4.2  100   60   0  12.0 14.6  69.9 17.4  85 255  10.48
009.80 6391 +17.9 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 14.8  68.2 17.5  85 255  10.38
009.84 6435 +18.4 4.0  100   60   0  12.0 14.8  67.4 17.8  84 255  10.38
009.91 6449 +17.7 4.1  100   60   0  12.0 15.0  66.8 17.8  84 255  10.38
010.00 6480 +17.7 4.2  100   60   0  12.0 15.2  67.5 19.1  84 255  10.60
010.03 6532 +18.2 4.1  100   60   0  12.0 15.5  67.9 18.1  84 255  10.60
And to keep things relevant to the thread. Here is the current AVCS Table.

I set it up this way so it would be easier to tune fuel with the UTEC. Then once I was happy I was going to start making adjustments and see if it got richer or leaner since the UTEC is in Speed Density mode I figured I'd tune the AVCS for maximum VE.
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Old 07-27-2007, 11:44 PM   #272
Airborne Guy
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Is he using 92 octane?
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Old 07-27-2007, 11:52 PM   #273
Master2192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AIRBORNEGUYWRX
Is he using 92 octane?
Yes, I know I could get away with more timing if he was on the 94 Octane but if I can't get it running right on the 92 octane then there is something wrong.
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Old 07-28-2007, 12:00 AM   #274
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I think its to rich overall. Remember that you dont need enrichment before or after the trq peak. What is the Utecs Injector dead time set at? What injectors?

Set the timing to 14 in that area with no more then 1 degree jumps. Then lean it out to 11.4 to 1. Also. Set the Utec to gauge mode if its not already.

If using stock type or modified stock injectors including PE use 1200 for the dead time. Also. You will probably need to reduce the knock sensitivity settings in the utec by 10 points across the board. They are way to sensitive for higher power setups. Set the knock action to 2 counts. You will know if its real knock.

I suggest you use the factory cam map up to 1.0 Grev. Then use 30 degrees up to 3200 then ramp down from there. There is not nearly enough cam advance in the current map.

make these changes and let us know how it works. Whats your altitude?

Clark
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Old 07-28-2007, 01:06 AM   #275
Master2192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie
I think its to rich overall. Remember that you dont need enrichment before or after the trq peak. What is the Utecs Injector dead time set at? What injectors?

Set the timing to 14 in that area with no more then 1 degree jumps. Then lean it out to 11.4 to 1. Also. Set the Utec to gauge mode if its not already.

If using stock type or modified stock injectors including PE use 1200 for the dead time. Also. You will probably need to reduce the knock sensitivity settings in the utec by 10 points across the board. They are way to sensitive for higher power setups. Set the knock action to 2 counts. You will know if its real knock.

I suggest you use the factory cam map up to 1.0 Grev. Then use 30 degrees up to 3200 then ramp down from there. There is not nearly enough cam advance in the current map.

make these changes and let us know how it works. Whats your altitude?

Clark
Altitude is close to sea level, according to google earth my Tuning road is 400ft above sea level.

Car is running modified stock injectors that tested within 2% of each other. Dead time I left at stock and just changed the scale to 816cc.

My final AFR target was going to be 11.2 so I guess I was sort of on track. I will get it leaned out further, but am sort of worried about EGTs going up as they are already in the 925c range but that could be from being too rich. Now that I think about it, the leaner tunes I've done knock less and EGTs are controllable...

I will try these and report back, thanks for the advice.
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