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Old 07-28-2007, 12:51 PM   #276
Airborne Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master2192 View Post
Yes, I know I could get away with more timing if he was on the 94 Octane but if I can't get it running right on the 92 octane then there is something wrong.

I was looking at the AFRs, not timing, it looked really rich for what you usually tune for.

I noticed timing is a little lower, but I know how you tune so I figured those would be getting more aggresive.
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Old 07-28-2007, 11:47 PM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie
make these changes and let us know how it works.

Clark
Car is running great, haven't finished the tune just yet. That'll come tomorrow. But turbo spool is greatly improved and it takes far less duty cycle to achieve the same boost, torque is nice even with 3 degrees less timing. Currently have the UTEC running ECU timing and despite having some AFRs as lean as 11.8 under full load it hasn't knocked on me yet. EGTs get a bit hot in a 5th gear pull after 6000 rpms but I need to lean it out and add in some timing.

Thanks for the advice Clark, seems like I got it in my head that richer is safer when I generally don't like AFRs in the 10s anyway. I need to experiment a bit more with these engines and figure out what works and what doesn't. Need to get on a dyno and experiment with AVCS alot more to find optimal settings.
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Old 07-29-2007, 12:21 AM   #278
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GLad I could help. WHat you had was RIch knock. Its actualy harder on the engine then lean knock. If you can make the same power with less timing you won the battle. You have a higher VE. Running Real rich to support more boost or timing is a step in the wrong direction.

CLark
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Old 07-30-2007, 10:29 AM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie View Post
Has anyone datalogged the cams after a reset to see how they sit before the ecu aligns them?
Code:
Time	Coolant	IAT	MAFV	Boost	ThrottleMPH	Load	IDC	RPM	AVCS-L	AVCS-R	IAM	DA	Timing	Wideband
33:47.5	156	133	0.66	0.15	5	0	0.33	0	0	0	0	0.5	0	0	0
33:47.9	156	133	0.66	0.15	5	0	0.33	0	0	0	0	0.5	0	0	0
33:48.2	156	133	0.66	0.15	5	0	0.33	0	0	0	0	0.5	0	0	0
33:48.5	156	133	0.66	0.15	5	0	0.33	0	0	0	0	0.5	0	0	0
33:48.9	156	133	0.66	0.15	5	0	0.33	0	0	0	0	0.5	0	0	0
33:49.2	156	133	0.66	0.15	5	0	0.33	0	0	0	0	0.5	0	0	0
33:49.6	156	133	0.66	0.15	5	0	0.33	0	0	0	0	0.5	0	0	0
33:49.9	156	133	0.66	0.15	5	0	0.33	0	0	0	0	0.5	0	0	0
33:50.3	156	133	0.66	0.15	5	0	0.33	0	0	0	0	0.5	0	0	0
33:50.6	156	133	1.26	-7.4	5	0	0.24	1.49	872	6	4	0.5	0	23.5	0
33:50.9	156	133	1.26	-7.4	5	0	0.24	1.49	872	6	4	0.5	0	23.5	0
33:51.3	156	133	1.3	-7.4	5	0	0.3	1.62	951	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:51.6	156	133	1.3	-7.69	5	0	0.3	1.57	918	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:52.0	156	133	1.34	-7.54	5	0	0.33	1.48	869	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:52.3	156	133	1.32	-7.4	5	0	0.34	1.62	843	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:52.6	156	133	1.34	-7.11	5	0	0.36	1.66	865	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:53.0	156	133	1.34	-7.11	5	0	0.35	1.75	910	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:53.3	156	133	1.36	-7.4	5	0	0.34	1.79	933	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:53.7	156	133	1.34	-7.69	5	0	0.32	1.7	996	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:54.0	156	133	1.34	-7.69	5	0	0.32	1.7	996	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:54.3	156	133	1.34	-7.69	5	0	0.32	1.7	996	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:54.7	156	131	1.34	-7.83	5	0	0.32	1.66	971	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:55.0	156	131	1.34	-7.83	5	0	0.33	1.63	954	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:55.4	156	131	1.34	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.65	965	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:55.7	156	131	1.36	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.67	981	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:56.0	156	131	1.34	-7.83	5	0	0.32	1.74	1021	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:56.4	156	131	1.34	-7.83	5	0	0.32	1.74	1017	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:56.7	156	131	1.34	-7.83	5	0	0.32	1.66	975	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:57.1	156	131	1.34	-7.83	5	0	0.33	1.69	988	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:57.4	156	131	1.34	-7.83	5	0	0.32	1.71	1000	6	3	0.5	0	16.5	0
33:57.7	156	131	1.36	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.65	966	6	3	0.5	0	18	0
33:58.1	156	131	1.36	-7.83	5	0	0.32	1.71	1003	6	3	0.5	0	16	0
33:58.4	156	129	1.36	-7.83	5	0	0.32	1.73	1014	6	3	0.5	0	16	0
33:58.8	156	129	1.38	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.66	975	6	3	0.5	0	18	0
33:59.1	156	129	1.36	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.69	988	6	3	0.5	0	17.5	0
33:59.4	156	129	1.36	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.7	997	6	3	0.5	0	16.5	0
33:59.8	156	129	1.38	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.73	1011	6	3	0.5	0	16	0
34:00.1	156	129	1.38	-7.83	5	0	0.33	1.72	1010	6	3	0.5	0	16.5	0
34:00.5	156	129	1.38	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.72	1006	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
34:00.8	156	129	1.38	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.75	1023	6	3	0.5	0	16	0
34:01.1	156	129	1.36	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.71	1000	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
34:01.5	156	129	1.36	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.72	1009	1	0	0.5	0	17	0
34:01.8	158	129	1.36	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.7	997	0	0	0.5	0	17	0
What does it mean??? I'm using the Cosworth 278/274 avcs cams.
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Old 07-30-2007, 11:20 AM   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jays05 View Post
Code:
Time	Coolant	IAT	MAFV	Boost	ThrottleMPH	Load	IDC	RPM	AVCS-L	AVCS-R	IAM	DA	Timing	Wideband
33:47.5	156	133	0.66	0.15	5	0	0.33	0	0	0	0	0.5	0	0	0
33:47.9	156	133	0.66	0.15	5	0	0.33	0	0	0	0	0.5	0	0	0
33:48.2	156	133	0.66	0.15	5	0	0.33	0	0	0	0	0.5	0	0	0
33:48.5	156	133	0.66	0.15	5	0	0.33	0	0	0	0	0.5	0	0	0
33:48.9	156	133	0.66	0.15	5	0	0.33	0	0	0	0	0.5	0	0	0
33:49.2	156	133	0.66	0.15	5	0	0.33	0	0	0	0	0.5	0	0	0
33:49.6	156	133	0.66	0.15	5	0	0.33	0	0	0	0	0.5	0	0	0
33:49.9	156	133	0.66	0.15	5	0	0.33	0	0	0	0	0.5	0	0	0
33:50.3	156	133	0.66	0.15	5	0	0.33	0	0	0	0	0.5	0	0	0
33:50.6	156	133	1.26	-7.4	5	0	0.24	1.49	872	6	4	0.5	0	23.5	0
33:50.9	156	133	1.26	-7.4	5	0	0.24	1.49	872	6	4	0.5	0	23.5	0
33:51.3	156	133	1.3	-7.4	5	0	0.3	1.62	951	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:51.6	156	133	1.3	-7.69	5	0	0.3	1.57	918	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:52.0	156	133	1.34	-7.54	5	0	0.33	1.48	869	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:52.3	156	133	1.32	-7.4	5	0	0.34	1.62	843	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:52.6	156	133	1.34	-7.11	5	0	0.36	1.66	865	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:53.0	156	133	1.34	-7.11	5	0	0.35	1.75	910	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:53.3	156	133	1.36	-7.4	5	0	0.34	1.79	933	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:53.7	156	133	1.34	-7.69	5	0	0.32	1.7	996	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:54.0	156	133	1.34	-7.69	5	0	0.32	1.7	996	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:54.3	156	133	1.34	-7.69	5	0	0.32	1.7	996	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:54.7	156	131	1.34	-7.83	5	0	0.32	1.66	971	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:55.0	156	131	1.34	-7.83	5	0	0.33	1.63	954	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:55.4	156	131	1.34	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.65	965	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:55.7	156	131	1.36	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.67	981	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:56.0	156	131	1.34	-7.83	5	0	0.32	1.74	1021	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:56.4	156	131	1.34	-7.83	5	0	0.32	1.74	1017	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:56.7	156	131	1.34	-7.83	5	0	0.32	1.66	975	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:57.1	156	131	1.34	-7.83	5	0	0.33	1.69	988	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
33:57.4	156	131	1.34	-7.83	5	0	0.32	1.71	1000	6	3	0.5	0	16.5	0
33:57.7	156	131	1.36	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.65	966	6	3	0.5	0	18	0
33:58.1	156	131	1.36	-7.83	5	0	0.32	1.71	1003	6	3	0.5	0	16	0
33:58.4	156	129	1.36	-7.83	5	0	0.32	1.73	1014	6	3	0.5	0	16	0
33:58.8	156	129	1.38	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.66	975	6	3	0.5	0	18	0
33:59.1	156	129	1.36	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.69	988	6	3	0.5	0	17.5	0
33:59.4	156	129	1.36	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.7	997	6	3	0.5	0	16.5	0
33:59.8	156	129	1.38	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.73	1011	6	3	0.5	0	16	0
34:00.1	156	129	1.38	-7.83	5	0	0.33	1.72	1010	6	3	0.5	0	16.5	0
34:00.5	156	129	1.38	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.72	1006	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
34:00.8	156	129	1.38	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.75	1023	6	3	0.5	0	16	0
34:01.1	156	129	1.36	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.71	1000	6	3	0.5	0	17	0
34:01.5	156	129	1.36	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.72	1009	1	0	0.5	0	17	0
34:01.8	158	129	1.36	-7.69	5	0	0.33	1.7	997	0	0	0.5	0	17	0
What does it mean??? I'm using the Cosworth 278/274 avcs cams.
I think it means that you can see the amount of retard built into the cams. Before the ECU zeros them out, they are showing 6 and 3 degrees. I'm not sure why they are different, however, I've seen that on all cars- the L and R are not exactly the same after a reset.
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Old 07-30-2007, 11:29 AM   #281
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As long as it doesn't mean the timing belt skipped a tooth...

With these cams (according to bboy's great thread on them) the left cams are supposed to be retarded by 1 degree, and the right cams by 2 degrees compared to stock (to make up for decked heads/block).
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Old 08-21-2007, 08:32 AM   #282
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Quote:
I think its to rich overall. Remember that you dont need enrichment before or after the trq peak. What is the Utecs Injector dead time set at? What injectors?

Set the timing to 14 in that area with no more then 1 degree jumps. Then lean it out to 11.4 to 1. Also. Set the Utec to gauge mode if its not already.

If using stock type or modified stock injectors including PE use 1200 for the dead time. Also. You will probably need to reduce the knock sensitivity settings in the utec by 10 points across the board. They are way to sensitive for higher power setups. Set the knock action to 2 counts. You will know if its real knock.

I suggest you use the factory cam map up to 1.0 Grev. Then use 30 degrees up to 3200 then ramp down from there. There is not nearly enough cam advance in the current map.
make these changes and let us know how it works. Whats your altitude?

Clark

The needle in the haystack. A compass for my ignorance. Direction, finally.

Thank you.
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Old 08-21-2007, 09:40 AM   #283
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Where did he post that?
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Old 08-21-2007, 09:44 AM   #284
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Where did he post that?
AZScoobie, Post #274, this thread.
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Old 08-21-2007, 01:03 PM   #285
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Hope that helped.

C
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Old 08-21-2007, 02:02 PM   #286
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Do you mean running 30 degrees right off the bat from 1.0 or ramp up across the load sites to 30?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie View Post
Hope that helped.

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Old 08-21-2007, 02:04 PM   #287
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I would guess ramp it up...

But I'll be testing it out when I get my car back.
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Old 08-21-2007, 02:26 PM   #288
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Woah woah guys, that advice was given for a GT30R STI so it won't directly apply to a smaller turbo'd car. But generally you are going to start out with 30 degrees in the lower rpms and then drop it down when rpms go up.

I doubt AZScoobie is going to give much more information than he already has.
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Old 08-21-2007, 02:29 PM   #289
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I doubt AZScoobie is going to give much more information than he already has.

That sounds 100% correct.
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Old 08-21-2007, 03:54 PM   #290
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Understood that it's advice for another turbo. Just wondering if the cams just transition from 10-20 or 30 instantly from load sites next to each other or it needs to be ramped up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master2192 View Post
Woah woah guys, that advice was given for a GT30R STI so it won't directly apply to a smaller turbo'd car. But generally you are going to start out with 30 degrees in the lower rpms and then drop it down when rpms go up.

I doubt AZScoobie is going to give much more information than he already has.
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Old 08-21-2007, 04:29 PM   #291
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Abrupt transitions in any maps generally won't lead to smooth performance. You wouldn't want huge jumps in timing or fueling, so cam timing should follow the same idea. If you are changing the dynamics of a system and you do it abruptly, the output of the system will change abruptly too.
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Old 10-10-2007, 12:57 PM   #292
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fantastic thread - what a wealth of information.

Thanks to all those that have contributed information.

My cam timing on a EDM 2006 2.5 STi is ramped up in the lower rpm level at higher load sites from a base of 20 to 40 from 2000 to 2800 to help with initial spool up - this has worked well on a VF43.

Beyond that it goes down to 20 then 15, 10 (at 4000) then to 5 at 5200.

I definitely will be experimenting with this on a dyno later in the year and will report back.
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Old 10-10-2007, 02:37 PM   #293
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Does anyone have an AVCS map for EJ207 + GT30r ?

Thanks
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Old 10-29-2007, 12:30 AM   #294
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I have been doing some AVCS tuning on my car... built ej257, gt35r .82ar, ported heads, supertech valvetrain, +0.5mm valves, cosworth 278/274 AVCS cams.

I found that with the big cams, it's best to get AVCS down to 0 by the time boost comes on. AVCS helps with spoolup a lot! I have spoolup almost the same as when I was running the stock cams.

Here is a datalog snip showing AVCS vs rpm/boost/load. I do most of my tuning with a UTEC, I really only use the stock ecu for light throttle and avcs.

Code:
Boost	ThrottleMPH	Load	IDC	RPM	AVCS-L	AVCS-R
3.05	100	43	1.35	17.22	3364	7	4
4.21	100	45	1.46	18.17	3406	11	6
5.22	100	46	1.55	19.96	3466	15	11
6.67	100	46	1.69	22.38	3618	19	17
9.86	100	48	1.97	26.68	3790	19	19
12.18	100	50	2.24	32.35	3991	16	16
15.23	100	53	2.67	38.69	4122	5	5
18.42	100	53	2.9	43.45	4333	0	0
19	100	57	2.89	45.94	4681	0	0
19.29	100	60	2.94	49.09	4896	0	0
19.58	100	60	3	50.84	5070	0	0
19.87	100	64	3.24	59.57	5475	0	0
20.02	100	69	3.22	61.3	5634	0	0
20.02	100	74	3.18	61.75	5907	0	0
20.02	100	74	3.21	65.86	6053	0	0
20.31	100	79	3.23	69.96	6430	0	0
20.02	100	83	3.18	72.17	6633	0	0
19.87	100	88	3.1	71.38	6828	0	0
20.02	100	88	3.04	72.71	6956	0	0
20.31	100	93	2.9	70.99	7234	0	0
With the boost turned up, I am seeing 26-27psi by 4700.
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Old 10-29-2007, 01:51 AM   #295
AZScoobie
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Jay. The changes are to large in the map. You should smooth them out.

Seeya.. That post was me suggesting he put a stock type map in as the one he was posting was horrible. It was not in anyway information about what I would use. Sorry. I wont post my maps.

C
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Old 10-29-2007, 02:08 AM   #296
mickeyd2005
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Freon recommended that we track volumetric efficiency as a method to tune AVCS.

I attempted to implement his idea here.

http://www.enginuity.org/viewtopic.php?t=2546
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Old 11-02-2007, 09:12 PM   #297
SeeeeeYa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie View Post
Jay. The changes are to large in the map. You should smooth them out.

Seeya.. That post was me suggesting he put a stock type map in as the one he was posting was horrible. It was not in anyway information about what I would use. Sorry. I wont post my maps.

C
I understand.

Nevertheless, you've given me what I needed.
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Old 11-04-2007, 07:05 PM   #298
west_minist
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Whiteknight:

At the end of the day, it will require you to sit down and tune those values. It will take time.

I think there is quite a lot of data here to get you started.

There are not too many pages to read, but the information contain is so valuable in getting you thinking, that you will be on your way.
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Old 11-04-2007, 07:21 PM   #299
west_minist
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Guys,

I cannot speak for AZScoobie, but I may be right in staying this.

I believe he would like to post his findings, but because it is a very competitve environment and you need the edge, you do not want to give away detail trade secrets.

The same will go for others, including myself.

Where I am located, there is strong competition and people takes other people work and call it theirs.

I hope everyone understand this and not to be hard upon us.

Cheers,
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Old 11-04-2007, 07:34 PM   #300
WhiteKnight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by west_minist View Post
Whiteknight:

At the end of the day, it will require you to sit down and tune those values. It will take time.

I think there is quite a lot of data here to get you started.

There are not too many pages to read, but the information contain is so valuable in getting you thinking, that you will be on your way.
I read the info here, thank you for everyone who helped this subject,

What i couldnt find here is AVCS theory after 5500 rpms with GT30R and cams.

Everyone says to taper the avcs values after 5500 rpms, but Clark wrote somewhere here that we can gain some top end with avcs tuning.

I have to research more, but i havent found any clues yet.

Thanks
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