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Old 08-29-2006, 05:00 AM   #1
Remnex
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Default 2.5l WRX Hybrid - PDX Tuning

I have noticed a running theme lately with 2.5l swappers posting dyno sheets. I did the swap awhile ago, and figured I would share the success. Been running strong for....... about 15k miles.... if I recall correctly.



Mods:

2.5l Shortblock + STi Headgasket
WRX Heads and Cams
VF-39 Turbo
800cc modded stock injectors
TurboXS FMIC
Perrin CAI


For those of you considering the swap, or have questions about the upkeep. Feel free to ask or PM me.
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Old 08-29-2006, 09:13 AM   #2
ride5000
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12.9 / 105+

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what's up with that fuel curve?
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Old 08-29-2006, 11:29 AM   #3
Badazzcr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000 View Post
what's up with that fuel curve?
That must be before tuning
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Old 08-29-2006, 12:56 PM   #4
Remnex
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Originally Posted by ride5000 View Post
what's up with that fuel curve?
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Old 08-29-2006, 01:13 PM   #5
ride5000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remnex View Post
are you asking me what's wrong with it?

boost is coming on strong between 2000 and 3000 rpms.
in this region your afrs are showing a bounce between 15.5 and 17 to 1. not good for spool, not good for torque, not good for detonation.

at around 3k the turbo is fully spooled.
you're still leaner than 15:1 ?!? again, you're way past lean best torque and it's gotta be really toasty in there.

it takes until 3500 rpms until you're under 12:1

then by 4500 you're PIG rich, richer than 10:1!!

comes back leaner to 11:1 for about 500rpms centered around 5100rpm.

then dives back to pig rich until redline.

this car was dyno tuned at PDX, and this was the final sheet they sent you on your way with? do you have a lot of cats in the exhaust still?
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Old 08-29-2006, 01:56 PM   #6
mick_the_ginge
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My guess is that while the dyno's tail pipe AFR was installed in the exhaust it was not being used. This means that the pump was switched off. This dyno uses a tube installed into the tail pipe to suck the exhaust over the sensor that is located in a box on the table. If the pumps not on it reads incorrectly.

I have to conclude that the pump is not on as it stays lean for so long and is generally all over the place. The car was tuned by PDXTuning but not at our facility, this is not the dyno we have in house now.

That's my assumption anyway. You would feel that AFR curve in the car and the fact that the owner has been driving around like this for 15K miles and is not saying it drives badly I say the dyno's AFR was not being used.

PDXTuning uses either a TurboXS tuna or an LM1 to get AFR's into the EM logs.
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Old 08-29-2006, 02:16 PM   #7
ride5000
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thanks for clearing that up, mick; what you said makes sense.
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Old 08-29-2006, 02:30 PM   #8
AZScoobie
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That Fuel Curve is not right in any case at just about any point in the RPM band. Like Mick said it must have been malfunctioning. I have been tuning on these dynos since the late 90's. I can tell you that the Dynojet Airpump Wide band system is a mess.

For those of you that have never seen it in action... The Sensor is mounted in a box that sits on the floor. Inside the box is an airpump. A hose is then inserted into the tailpipe, The pump pulls exhaust down the tube and across the sensor. Different shops ahve different diam and length tubing. I know one shop who had 15ft of tubing at least. The problem with this is that there is a huge delay in the sample.. I would have to do a huge Fuel edit to find out there the Rich spot was at on the curve.. This shop was 1000 rpms off! It made For a hell of a time tuning a flat AFR curve. Other shops had a shorter and faster sample. All shops had issues with Clogging in the pump.

Other systems like the one I use each day are better but not without problems. The Lm1 Mustang uses with the tail pipe adapter will not not read at idle on some cars. There is a slight delay because of the length of exhaust and that delay goes down as RPMs rise. Its very usable however since these cars have Fuel trims with a factory WB. I know the car is idling at 14.7 because the stock sensor tells me so and the Computer is trimmed to 0.

The best system is to use an in car WB that mounts in the downpipe. This has the least delay but it is more likely to have error due to Pressure and heat. I have seen these systems be off a full AFR point. The Lm1 I temp compensated which is nice but it also refuses to read a hot sensor and errors out ALOT. Even with a Heatsink on the Sensor itself. I use an Aluminum Battery Tie down hose clamped to the sensor body. This seems to help alot. Inovate sells a screw in heat sink that is great product. I need to test one out further however.



Clark
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Old 08-29-2006, 03:02 PM   #9
sponaugle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie View Post
That Fuel Curve is not right in any case at just about any point in the RPM band. Like Mick said it must have been malfunctioning. I have been tuning on these dynos since the late 90's. I can tell you that the Dynojet Airpump Wide band system is a mess.

For those of you that have never seen it in action... The Sensor is mounted in a box that sits on the floor. Inside the box is an airpump. A hose is then inserted into the tailpipe, The pump pulls exhaust down the tube and across the sensor. Different shops ahve different diam and length tubing. I know one shop who had 15ft of tubing at least. The problem with this is that there is a huge delay in the sample.. I would have to do a huge Fuel edit to find out there the Rich spot was at on the curve.. This shop was 1000 rpms off! It made For a hell of a time tuning a flat AFR curve. Other shops had a shorter and faster sample. All shops had issues with Clogging in the pump.

Other systems like the one I use each day are better but not without problems. The Lm1 Mustang uses with the tail pipe adapter will not not read at idle on some cars. There is a slight delay because of the length of exhaust and that delay goes down as RPMs rise. Its very usable however since these cars have Fuel trims with a factory WB. I know the car is idling at 14.7 because the stock sensor tells me so and the Computer is trimmed to 0.

The best system is to use an in car WB that mounts in the downpipe. This has the least delay but it is more likely to have error due to Pressure and heat. I have seen these systems be off a full AFR point. The Lm1 I temp compensated which is nice but it also refuses to read a hot sensor and errors out ALOT. Even with a Heatsink on the Sensor itself. I use an Aluminum Battery Tie down hose clamped to the sensor body. This seems to help alot. Inovate sells a screw in heat sink that is great product. I need to test one out further however.



Clark

I couldn't agree more. I LOVE it when a car comes in with a wideband already installed in the downpipe. As Clark said, the air pump system is very problematic. I too like the LM1, and have also seen the error conditions Clark mentiones. I'll have to look at that heat sink!

Jeff
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Old 08-29-2006, 06:59 PM   #10
The_Anti_Hero
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how much boost?
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Old 08-29-2006, 07:01 PM   #11
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Since you guys are on topic about WB's how far down the downpipe should I put a bung for accuracy and longevity?
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Old 08-29-2006, 07:03 PM   #12
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i've got a plm300, they recomended i put it atleast 12" down stream of the turbo.
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Old 08-30-2006, 02:59 AM   #13
Remnex
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Well, most of the above conversation was completely over my head, I can add that since I used the STi head gaskest and not the cometic one to get the correct compression ratio, mine is a tad higher than normal.

Other than that, I spank damn near any I come across up here. All I care about
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