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Old 08-31-2006, 07:11 AM   #1
nomorem3
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Your NASIOC Administrator Differences between JDM V9 STI, JDM V9 Spec-A/B/C, & JDM V8 Spec-C (Heads)???

Title says it, other than the V9 having "Dual-AVCS," V8 using Thorttle-By-Cable & 5-plug Harness, and the ECU differences, were there any changes in head design from V8's to V9's?

I ask because I was planning on running the V8 STi Spec-C Heads/Intake Mani/ECU on my sleeved/built 2.5L block, until it was brought to my attention that the JDM V8 Spec-C uses a 5-plug harness and Throttle-By-Cable.

But I was told that the JDM V9 STI has a 4-plug Chassis Harness connection that is compatible w/ my USDM V8 STi. Of course the DBW is also a plus, one that also allows me to easily reverse my intake manifold.

I was also told that the V9 STI & V9 STI Spec-A/B/C all use the same head, but differ solely due to the differences in their ECU's. Also was told that that head is the same as the JDM V8 STi Spec-C (Except of course the V9 having AVCS on both cams & V8 on only intake) , as far as the "Large Port" heads w/ additional hand porting of intake ports, aggressive cam profile, stiffer sodium filled valves, and beefed up valvetrain.

Also, if anyone knows more detailed specs of the cams in these heads, I'd really like to especially know the cam duration of the V8 & V9 heads. Just to confirm, the JDM V9 has "Dual-AVCS" correct? That's valve timing control (retard & advance) on BOTH the intake & exhaust cams??

EDIT: Post-Brain Fart - Is there a difference between the V8 "1-pc/Long Runner/Non-TGV" Intake Manifold & V9 one?

Mind just went blank *brain fart*

Guess I'll just address my other interests later on...

Johnny
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Last edited by nomorem3; 08-31-2006 at 07:22 AM.
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Old 08-31-2006, 11:26 AM   #2
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oh..... you got it all wrong...... where do I start

1. V9 is NOT dual AVCS. The only dual avcs is the B4
2. V9 and V8 are almost identical. Same wiring harness, same 5 plug ECU...... difference is in intercooler and some other stuff. I believe internals are identical within versions (V9 RAC = V8 RAC, V9 = V8) but I am not 100% sure
3. easiest way is to keep DBW, if you use JDM ECU you have to rewire everything (PITA)
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Old 08-31-2006, 01:07 PM   #3
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I'm just going by what i've been told. That's why I started this thread, wanted to know the facts, appreciate your input.

I always thought that the new STI (06+) had an updated AVCS system, thought it controlled both cams. What is the difference between the V8 & V9 heads then? Re-educate me on the reason for the upper cased "I" in STI, as compared to the lower cased "i" in the 04-05 STi. I know it has something to do with the VVT, right? haha.

Just to make sure, to get the V9 STI heads to work correctly in my 4-plug DBW 05' USDM STi, do i modify the V9's 5-plug harness or my USDM STi's 4-plug harness for the Autronic SM4 EMS to work with the V9 heads/sensors etc.?

I gotta get goin to work...

Anyone mind helpin me out here? Basically I need to know what exactly I need to do to get the JDM V9 STI heads & Intake Manifold to work w/ my 05' USDM STi w/ Autronic SM4 EMS (keeping DBW of course). Since i'll be using a standalone, and not JDM ECU, wouldn't that also allow me to install the JDM V8 Spec-C heads w/ DBW instead of throttle-by-cable?

I can get a very good deal on the V8 Spec-C heads, so unless the V9's AVCS is different than what I already have, I guess i'll go the V8 route again.

Thanks for your help!!

Johnny
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Old 08-31-2006, 07:38 PM   #4
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AFAIK only the B4 comes with dual avcs on both intake and exhaust
I have not seen V9 heads open, so I really couldn't tell you if they are any different from V8 - everyone has his own opinion on this, but I won't say anything untill I see it with my own eyes

DBW STI has AVCS too, so I am thinking you could keep your harness and wire the 8 wires to the V9/8 heads. Also keep in mind, to keep DBW (which seems to be the easiest way) you gotta keep your DBW intake manifold (unless you can convert V8/9 intake mani to DBW )

AVCS is same in all JDM STIs, it's just a system The difference lays in:
1. cams
-Spec C have MORE agressive cams, thus better to go V8 Spec C rather than usual V9 (V7 spec C = V8 cams, but we are not touching V7 here)
2. tuning
-Spec C's have more agressive AVCS mapping...you can program AVCS map...Autronic supports it right? I've never dealt with that brain

Hope I clarified it
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Old 09-03-2006, 02:58 AM   #5
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Yes sirree Autronic has intake & exhaust cam control (VVT/VANOS (BMW own4g3)/AVCS)...

So what does the capital "I" mean again in the new STI, as compared to the lower cased "i" in 04-05 STi's? I could have sworn that it had SOMETHING to do with the "new" AVCS.

If in fact the AVCS is the same in the V8 & V9 heads, for damn sure i'm going with the JDM V8 RA Spec-C heads, cause I'm only paying $1500 for em!!

Now onto the Intake Mani./TB subject...you don't think my DBW TB from my USDM 05' STi will bolt onto say a V8 "Long Runner/Non-TGV" Intake Manifold? they should be the same size & have same bolt pattern shouldn't they??

The harness can be modified, so that's not an issue.

So now i'm stuck, because I always thought that the new STI had a different AVCS system. Reason:

1) Read it online when it came out
2) Raced a stock 06' STI w/ 3 passengers, in my bolt-on (K&N SRI, Perrin FMIC, NGK Iridium 7's, UTEC, Walbro 255, Invidia Catless Bellmouth, & JIC 505S Full-Ti w/o Resonator) STi @ 22psi, with removed - trunk lining/spare/IC Spray Syst/Rear Seats & braces/Washer Reservoir, iON Perf. 2-pc rotors w/ Ti fasteners, & Zeal V6 coilovers. On a VIRTUAL freeway starting in 3rd gear to end of 5th. He stayed RIGHT next to me from 3rd to 4th, I started to pull before end of 4th, and had a major pull when i hit 5th. I'm guessing the power kicked it in @ higher speeds while his newer STI (AVCS? or something) had the advantage in the lower speed/trq dept.

I mean, I've beaten many SC Cobra's (from dig & freeway), my friends C5 Z06, friends modded WS6, brother's 400hp E46 M3, but the new STI was just surprisingly unexpectedly quick down low.

Could have been that he was in a lower gear before me, but I could have sworn we started at the exact same time, and for buddah's sake mine's a bit lighter!!
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Old 09-03-2006, 12:13 PM   #6
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STI vs STi I thought you were joking, someone must have made that up

$1500 is an ok price for spec c heads imho, about average

intake manifold, I honestly can't help you here as this is something I've never looked into

wiring harness...... well, if you really want to run JDM ECU (then forget about passing inspection), you have to get the whole engine/dash harness V7+ or custom add and change wires, as the pinouts are absolutely different JDM vs USDM
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Old 09-06-2006, 07:51 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
STI vs STi I thought you were joking, someone must have made that up

$1500 is an ok price for spec c heads imho, about average

intake manifold, I honestly can't help you here as this is something I've never looked into

wiring harness...... well, if you really want to run JDM ECU (then forget about passing inspection), you have to get the whole engine/dash harness V7+ or custom add and change wires, as the pinouts are absolutely different JDM vs USDM

haha, i'm actually not making that up/joking...

there was a thread on the 06+ STI when it first came out, and they even discussed the meaning of the upper cased "I." if you pay attention, whenever people speak of the 06+ STI's, they always use upper cased "I's" unless it's not an 06-07 owner, haha...

i'm not trying to run the JDM ECU at all, i'm having the USDM STi ECU & UTEC sold just to get the Autronic SM4 Standalone EMS...

because I will NOT be using the JDM ECU, or even a USDM ECU for that matter, and will be running an Autronic SM4 EMS in their place...correct me if i'm wrong, PLEASE haha...but, does this mean I can run whatever HEAD & INTAKE MANIFOLD i want? and keep it Drive-by-Wire?? as long as the DBW Throttle Body bolts onto said Intake Manifold? or is the SM4 unit meant to be used with the Throttle-by-Cable (or even JDM) WRX/STi's?

also, staying on track with the previous paragraph...*USDM STi = 4-plug/DBW / JDM V8 STi (& RA Spec-C) = 5-plug/TBC / JDM V9 STi (& RA Spec-A/B/C = 5-plug/DBW*...if the Autronic SM4 were to plug into my 4-plug Chassis Harness and I'm running the 5-plug JDM V8/V9 STI/RA Spec-C Heads, is there any modification needed to the harness? and if the cam angle sensors are different, does that matter with the standalone (no, right?)?

$1500 is just "OK??" Damn, I thought I was gettin hooked up!! haha...Don't they retail for close to, & over at times, 4 grand? Would you happen to know of a place to get the real deal JDM V8 or V9 RA Spec-C Heads & V9 Intake Manifold for a better deal? if you do know of a place, what do you think the price difference is for the JDM V9 RAC Heads over the V8 RAC's?


BUMP...for anyone who's had their hands on JDM V9 STI or JDM V9 STI RA Spec-A/B/C Heads!! Are the V9 RA Spec-C Heads ANY different than that of the JDM V8 RA Spec-C's?? also, can anyone please clairfy the differences in the 2006 STI's powertrain from that of the 2004-2005 STi model's powertrain?! more specifically, the AVCS, haha...

Hyper - you must be getting sick of me huh? the repetitiveness, lol...but you said you've never actually had your hands on the V9's, so let's see if we can find someone more learned on the JDM V9 STI & STI RA Spec-C...

AND....what is the difference between the JDM V9 RA Spec-A, Spec-B, & Spec-C?? I heard it was only differences in the ECU's. I also heard that the JDM V9 STI RA Spec-C had the same head internals as the JDM V9 STI (Base model STI), just different ECU's. But you, Hyper, say that the V8 = V9 & V8 RAC = V9 RAC, not saying that I don't believe you...but I have people telling me one thing, and other's telling me another...didn't the V7 RAC = V8 while the V8 RAC set the bar even higher?

Also, still need clarification on Intake Manifolds (Specifically V8 & V9 - 1-pc Manifolds) and retaining my current Drive-by-Wire (05' USDM STi)/Throttle Body. Would my USDM STi's DBW Throttle Body plugs plug into the V9 STI/STI RAC's Drive-by-Wire Throttle Body's TPS & "Butterfly Motor (dunno what to call it)??"
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:45 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorem3 View Post
haha, i'm actually not making that up/joking...

there was a thread on the 06+ STI when it first came out, and they even discussed the meaning of the upper cased "I." if you pay attention, whenever people speak of the 06+ STI's, they always use upper cased "I's" unless it's not an 06-07 owner, haha...

i'm not trying to run the JDM ECU at all, i'm having the USDM STi ECU & UTEC sold just to get the Autronic SM4 Standalone EMS...

because I will NOT be using the JDM ECU, or even a USDM ECU for that matter, and will be running an Autronic SM4 EMS in their place...correct me if i'm wrong, PLEASE haha...but, does this mean I can run whatever HEAD & INTAKE MANIFOLD i want? and keep it Drive-by-Wire?? as long as the DBW Throttle Body bolts onto said Intake Manifold? or is the SM4 unit meant to be used with the Throttle-by-Cable (or even JDM) WRX/STi's?

also, staying on track with the previous paragraph...*USDM STi = 4-plug/DBW / JDM V8 STi (& RA Spec-C) = 5-plug/TBC / JDM V9 STi (& RA Spec-A/B/C = 5-plug/DBW*...if the Autronic SM4 were to plug into my 4-plug Chassis Harness and I'm running the 5-plug JDM V8/V9 STI/RA Spec-C Heads, is there any modification needed to the harness? and if the cam angle sensors are different, does that matter with the standalone (no, right?)?

$1500 is just "OK??" Damn, I thought I was gettin hooked up!! haha...Don't they retail for close to, & over at times, 4 grand? Would you happen to know of a place to get the real deal JDM V8 or V9 RA Spec-C Heads & V9 Intake Manifold for a better deal? if you do know of a place, what do you think the price difference is for the JDM V9 RAC Heads over the V8 RAC's?


BUMP...for anyone who's had their hands on JDM V9 STI or JDM V9 STI RA Spec-A/B/C Heads!! Are the V9 RA Spec-C Heads ANY different than that of the JDM V8 RA Spec-C's?? also, can anyone please clairfy the differences in the 2006 STI's powertrain from that of the 2004-2005 STi model's powertrain?! more specifically, the AVCS, haha...

Hyper - you must be getting sick of me huh? the repetitiveness, lol...but you said you've never actually had your hands on the V9's, so let's see if we can find someone more learned on the JDM V9 STI & STI RA Spec-C...

AND....what is the difference between the JDM V9 RA Spec-A, Spec-B, & Spec-C?? I heard it was only differences in the ECU's. I also heard that the JDM V9 STI RA Spec-C had the same head internals as the JDM V9 STI (Base model STI), just different ECU's. But you, Hyper, say that the V8 = V9 & V8 RAC = V9 RAC, not saying that I don't believe you...but I have people telling me one thing, and other's telling me another...didn't the V7 RAC = V8 while the V8 RAC set the bar even higher?

Also, still need clarification on Intake Manifolds (Specifically V8 & V9 - 1-pc Manifolds) and retaining my current Drive-by-Wire (05' USDM STi)/Throttle Body. Would my USDM STi's DBW Throttle Body plugs plug into the V9 STI/STI RAC's Drive-by-Wire Throttle Body's TPS & "Butterfly Motor (dunno what to call it)??"

I currently owns a JDM sti 2006 model Hawke-eye model and it is Dual AVCS . I would also like to enquire if any of you know if the COBB AP which works on the USDM sti , can work on the JDM sti 2006 , or can verify if it can plug into my ecu . Any details of the JDM sti and pictures of the engine , you can feel free to ask , I can get pictures of anything in my engine , as I am currently doing some work on the car .

Is any one currently running the AEM EMS 2 plug and play on their STI and how is it working ?

Last edited by MARKSTI1979; 01-23-2013 at 11:47 AM. Reason: Gramma
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:24 PM   #9
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Check out the ej207 info thread, you'll find some useful info that may help answer some of your questions.
Search, ej207 info

Last edited by D-Rodman; 01-23-2013 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARKSTI1979 View Post
I would also like to enquire if any of you know if the COBB AP which works on the USDM sti , can work on the JDM sti 2006 , or can verify if it can plug into my ecu .
No US COBB AP will work with any JDM ECU. COBB made a Japanese AP, in collaboration with PROVA... but not sure of the compatibility, or if it's even available in the US. Your best bet for tuning would be Open Source via tactrix cable.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:10 AM   #11
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Here is the EJ207 info thread.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2385141

Just because I don't want wrong info to remain in a thread and future generations to read this and continue to come back asking over and over and over...

Read the info thread:
-V8 is throttle by cable
-V9 is throttle by cable
-Spec C is throttle by cable
All GDB are throttle by cable.


As far as using or running throttle by wire in an EJ207, Kpluiten has done it, check his thread.

Converting throttle by cable to by wire is not only a wiring conversion and it's not only a a wiring and manifold conversion, search his thread, he has done it.

Last edited by Vlad; 01-24-2013 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:16 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARKSTI1979 View Post
I currently owns a JDM sti 2006 model Hawke-eye model and it is Dual AVCS .
-If this is what is under the hood of your car, a EJ207 Dual AVCS, then it was swapped in. This is an interesting swap to find out about.
Also, please post pictures about it.

The dual AVCS system has not begun to be installed in Impreza untill the GRB body style, Worldwide.

We chose to designate the GRB bodystyle JDM EJ207 engine V10.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:28 AM   #13
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There is no such thing as V9 spec A B C.
The GDB cars were REVISION A
REVISION B

etc
etc


V9 corresponds on this forum to Revision E, F, G.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torquey View Post
No US COBB AP will work with any JDM ECU. COBB made a Japanese AP, in collaboration with PROVA... but not sure of the compatibility, or if it's even available in the US. Your best bet for tuning would be Open Source via tactrix cable.
So your saying if I have a 2002 wrx with a V2 Cobb AP and I want to swap in a 207 longblock there is no way to make avcs work with the USDM ECU. So then i have to choose between
-running a JDM ECU and adding the wiring from IAperformance for the AVCS, then get an opensource tune?
- Or plug the AVCS and run my stock ecu with Cobb AP still?
I like being able to switch maps and run e85 or 91.
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Old 01-24-2013, 02:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shredboostnburn420 View Post
So your saying if I have a 2002 wrx with a V2 Cobb AP and I want to swap in a 207 longblock there is no way to make avcs work with the USDM ECU. So then i have to choose between
-running a JDM ECU and adding the wiring from IAperformance for the AVCS, then get an opensource tune?
- Or plug the AVCS and run my stock ecu with Cobb AP still?
I like being able to switch maps and run e85 or 91.
There is an opensource ROM that works with AVCS that also has map switching (Carberry ROM). It's free for personal use, but he asks if you're professionally tuned for it that the tuner send him $20, so it probably has some minimal upcharge associated with that.

It's also a speed density ROM, so for best performance you want to add an IAT sensor between the intercooler and the heads somewhere. And you'll need a tuner familiar with SD ROM tuning. That might also cost more than a typical MAF tune. However, if you're able to sell your AP, you may come out pretty close to even.
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:02 AM   #16
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You are not running Jdm avcs with a Jdm or usdm ecu with an accessport. A Jdm v7, v8 is an easy swap into a 02-05 wrx using the corresponding jdm ecu and avcs wiring. A v9 with a v9 Jdm ecu is more complicated because the ecu is immobilized so you would also need the ignition and key from the donor vehicle. The only exception been a v9 spec c that are not immobilized. In any case you will be running open source engine management. You could run a v9 engine with a v8 fairly easily, some sensor adjustment are needed and tunning for whatever stuff you run like exhaust, etc. A v7 is also possible, same deal with sensor calibration in the ecu just like using a v8 ecu but the v8 and v9 engines come with twin scroll turbos while v7 come wit single scroll. All this info is available on the ej207 owners and ej207 info thread, search, read.
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:57 PM   #17
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Don't know why people in the states like to argue this point.

Many v9 STIs have dual AVCS heads. Almost all the late productions before the GR change over. Have parted several of them. Most of the GDGs I have seen are dual AVCS. GDFs are all single AVCS. The confusion is stateside people like to use Vwhatever instead of the actual designation. GDA-G.

The cam profiles throughout the GD series also changes. GDA,B lower profile, C-F higher profile, D-F spec C/S series very high profile. The spec C cams run profiles normally in the range of aftermarket "stage 1" cams.
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