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Old 09-07-2006, 11:55 AM   #1
thejean
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Default EcuEdit questions... what do these tables do?

1. RPM vs Throttle - #11 - 282D4
2. RPM vs Smoothed Map Manual - #15 - 2A691
3. Overrun Feul Cut-Off Delay - #05 - 29857
4. Idle Air Flow Map - Coolant Temp Based - #91 - 280F8
5. Idle Engine Load Map - Coolant Temp Based - #91 - 2811E
6. Throttle Angle - Into Idle - #00 - 2829E
7. Throttle Angle - Out of Idle - #00 - 282A3

I could take a guess but would like opinions from those in the know.

Thanks, JC
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Old 09-08-2006, 10:26 AM   #2
thejean
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Wow, I can't believe noone knows the answer to these questions.
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Old 09-08-2006, 12:10 PM   #3
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ask over at epifansoft, he wrote the software.
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Old 09-08-2006, 01:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06rexwagon View Post
ask over at epifansoft, he wrote the software.
I did. No response as of yet.
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Old 09-08-2006, 02:21 PM   #5
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No response because you are using xmlwrite and the definitions were not written by him. The creator of xmlwrite (not associated with Ecuedit) got a hold of Ecutek's data file of map offsets and wrote a piece of software to translate it to the xml formats for each of the free Subaru tuning tools. He did this as an effort to jump start the creation of definitions in the community and help it along, but not as a permanent solution. I'm sure Ecutek is not happy about this and xmlwrite has been pulled from most sites and as far as I know is no longer included with Ecuedit. So, you can ask Ecutek about the tables but I doubt they will answer.
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Old 09-08-2006, 05:56 PM   #6
thejean
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Wouldn't someone with the same ECU as me who has been using EcuEdit and know a thing or two about tuning know what they are? I can take a guess based on their descriptions as to what they do, but would like confirmation from people who know with more certaintly.

Anyone have a copy of an EcuTeK tuning manual?
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Old 09-18-2006, 04:40 AM   #7
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instead of using ecu edit, try using enginuity. www.enginuity.org.
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Old 09-18-2006, 10:43 AM   #8
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I do use enginuity as well, just it doesn't have access to all of the tables I want.
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Old 09-18-2006, 10:56 AM   #9
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Xmlwrite works with Enginuity too with the its latest version (7).
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Old 09-19-2006, 02:02 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejean View Post
I do use enginuity as well, just it doesn't have access to all of the tables I want.
What table are you looking for? Maybe you dont have the user access set to its highest setting?
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Old 09-23-2006, 07:19 PM   #11
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Depending on which model you have, but at least for the DBW models, Denso (manufacturer), Subaru (duh), and Hitachi ("Copyright 1999 Hitachi Vehicle Operating System for SH-2" appears in my ROM) are responsible for the code. Cobb, Ecutek, and various Openecu project contributors are not. Everyone else is just trying to reverse engineer what they created. Keep that in mind when approaching this...

Switching from Ecuedit to Enguinity isn't going to help you any. I don't understand that suggestion. XMLwrite, which will produce output for all three editors (Ecuflash being the other), still has the most comprehensive map descriptions by far. Any maps that one editor has will quickly get integrated to the other editors. There is no real way to protect this data, so this won't change as time passes, either.

FWIW, all the DBW ECUs have the map locations pointed out in them, though not named. You don't necessarily have to reverse engineer the commercial solutions. XMLwrite actually dumps all the maps if you want it, but they're unnamed. These are not Ecutek's maps.
(see http://freon.shackspace.com/car/ecu%...w_mapdefs2.png)

Quote:
Wow, I can't believe noone knows the answer to these questions.
Well, time to change your outlook then if you are surprised by this. This is a reality of reflash tuning. No one is going to have a 100% perfect description of your ROM. Not even Ecutek and Cobb do. There are just too many maps. The available resources have to be spent on the things that need to be modified. Unless we get someone with inside information, this is just how it is. I helped you as best as I could in the same thread you made on openecu.org, but at some point I'm just guessing. It can't hurt to ask, but don't be surprised or upset if you don't get answers.

Some maps are obvious just looking at them. Main ignition timing, fueling, wastegate duty maps, etc. You can just look at them and have a darned good idea. Obviously high det fuel maps are richer than low det and so-on. Especially with the SH-2 ECUs with the map locations actually spelled out in the ROM itself, finding the important maps is pretty easy even without any sort of "help" from other sources.

The only true method to really know what a map does is for someone with the skills and knowledge to decompile the ROM code and trace back. Eventually it can be seen what pins control what, and what maps are tied together and interact. This is far from easy and only a handful of people have the necessary skills and software.

Another method is trial and error (i.e. change something and see what happens), but I wouldn't want to do this on a real car unless I was already 95% sure what a map did. Perhaps if I could construct a test bench, fake sensor inputs to get the ECU to think it is still in the car, etc. Lots of work, plus I'd need a spare ECU.

Honestly, if it frustrates you to not know what some maps do, you're best not using the Openecu stuff. These tools are NOT for everyone, nor should everyone be tuning their own car in the first place. But at the same time, remember even the commercial products don't have it all, either. They've just spent more time and resources validating the important stuff. There is no formal validation process with the Openecu stuff before it gets released. It's just a bunch of interested and like-minded people hacking away. You must trust the creator of each piece of information or software you use.

Realize that even the longest list of known maps there are MORE that are still unknown! For instance, XMLwrite generates 35 "known" 2D maps, but there are another 60 or so that are unknown, but defined in the ECU. While some are filled with zeros and probably don't do anything, most appear to be built with some sort of intention.
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Old 09-23-2006, 08:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freon View Post
There is no real way to protect this data, so this won't change as time passes, either.
There's also no point to "protecting" it. If there were, we'd have done it.
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Old 10-03-2006, 08:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejean View Post
1. RPM vs Throttle - #11 - 282D4
2. RPM vs Smoothed Map Manual - #15 - 2A691
3. Overrun Feul Cut-Off Delay - #05 - 29857
4. Idle Air Flow Map - Coolant Temp Based - #91 - 280F8
5. Idle Engine Load Map - Coolant Temp Based - #91 - 2811E
6. Throttle Angle - Into Idle - #00 - 2829E
7. Throttle Angle - Out of Idle - #00 - 282A3
jc, i can tell you this:

#6 determines at which point during throttle rolloff the ecu enters "idle mode." this mode takes base timing from some unknown place, and adds the ect and iat compensations to net total advance. fwiw, #4 and #5 probably factor into the unknown base timing determination, but i am not certain as of yet.

#7 obviously sets the point at which idle mode is exited during throttle rollon. the difference between the two defines the hysterisis.

#3 defines the delay (when tps < #6 and rpm > idle rpm speed) during which the injectors are still squirting fuel. i adjusted this map to 200 across all ranges and fuel was ramped down to infinite afr over a period of about 1 second. i have also used all zeroes. making these values higher for higher rpm/higher smoothed MAP (ie bottom right of matrix) creates throttle "flare" during shifts, where the rpms surge momentarily upon clutching and dethrottling. making these values higher for lower rpm/lower smoothed map creates a lot of burbling/popping afterfire as you decelerate in gear (which is actually kind of cool, if a little attention-getting).
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Old 10-03-2006, 10:37 AM   #14
thejean
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Hey ride. Thanks for the legwork on this. I was going to try modifying them myself but quite frankly was a little scared to do so. Thanks for the information. If I can put this info to good use I will be sure to let you know. JC
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Old 11-15-2006, 10:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000 View Post
#3 defines the delay (when tps < #6 and rpm > idle rpm speed) during which the injectors are still squirting fuel. i adjusted this map to 200 across all ranges and fuel was ramped down to infinite afr over a period of about 1 second. i have also used all zeroes. making these values higher for higher rpm/higher smoothed MAP (ie bottom right of matrix) creates throttle "flare" during shifts, where the rpms surge momentarily upon clutching and dethrottling. making these values higher for lower rpm/lower smoothed map creates a lot of burbling/popping afterfire as you decelerate in gear (which is actually kind of cool, if a little attention-getting).
I'm going to mess around with this a bit. But when you say 'infinite' AFR do you mean infinity:1 AFR? or extremely rich? I pressume you mean infinitely rich.

Any guesses as to what the units are? milliseconds?

And on that note, what's

Overrun fuel cut-off - fuelling restore RPM - 291A7 (for A4TF500F)
Code:
-40	3000
-30	3000
-20	3000
-10	3000
0	2500
10	2050
20	2000
30	2000
40	2000
50	1750
60	1500
70	1300
80	1300
90	1300
100	1300
110	1300
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Old 11-15-2006, 11:21 PM   #16
thejean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
Overrun fuel cut-off - fuelling restore RPM - 291A7 (for A4TF500F)
Code:
-40	3000
-30	3000
-20	3000
-10	3000
0	2500
10	2050
20	2000
30	2000
40	2000
50	1750
60	1500
70	1300
80	1300
90	1300
100	1300
110	1300
This is the revs at which fueling is cut-off during engine deceleration conditions.

Last edited by thejean; 11-15-2006 at 11:43 PM.
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Old 11-15-2006, 11:35 PM   #17
MRF582
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What does the left side column represent?
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Old 11-15-2006, 11:40 PM   #18
thejean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
What does the left side column represent?
Coolant temperature.
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