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Old 09-08-2006, 02:24 PM   #1
Thran
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Default Coolingmist Users info needed

Hey guys i just wanted to know which nozzel is everyone using, when they got the coolingmist? because i bought it a while ago and i have like the 6 one but i think that is too small but the 18 i feel is too big so i just wanted to know what everyone is using?
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Old 09-11-2006, 02:28 AM   #2
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none has any info....
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Old 09-11-2006, 08:14 AM   #3
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What kit do you have?

I have a stage 1 kit with an M5 nozzle for my PE1820 and my tuner felt that I could still go bigger. Consult your tuner on what he thinks but if you order from CoolinMist, the next step up is an M10 which might be too big. McCaster-Carr, I think, has different sizes, search them.
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Old 09-11-2006, 08:47 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Thran View Post
Hey guys i just wanted to know which nozzel is everyone using, when they got the coolingmist? because i bought it a while ago and i have like the 6 one but i think that is too small but the 18 i feel is too big so i just wanted to know what everyone is using?
Today our stage II controller kits ship with 2 nozzles, a 6 GPH and a 16 GPH.

If you have our controller kit the 18 GPH is NOT too large. The tuning butting in the middle of the controller will effectivly make the 18 smaller. For example, to get the full 18 GPH at full boost leave the tuning button at 10. To get roughly 90% of that leave it at 9, roughtly 80% of that leave it at 8, 7= roughly 70% and etc. With the tuning button you can effectivly change the maximum flow between 25% and 100%.

Also, you can limit the maximum size of the injector through the software. In the software there is a screen "Min Duty cycle" and "Max Duty Cycle". You can change the maximum to any percentage. For example, if you set the max to 70, you will hit a maximum of 70% of the flow, regardless of the position of that middle tuning knob.

The Vari-Cool Coolingmist Controller was designed to be flexible and make injector sizing much easier.
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Old 09-11-2006, 11:29 AM   #5
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There is no way that someone can be right when saying that an 18gph nozzle can't be too large just cause you have a controller when he has no clue what your setup is. This is cause there is still a minimum and maximum flow for a given nozzle. Many people who run sti injectors(assuming that you might have them) run anywhere from a 5-6gph nozzle(or even smaller). With an m6 nozzle(the one that came with your kit), you could most likely(as far as my calculations tell me) run 13% or more injection to fuel with 800cc or smaller injectors all the time. Because of this, I'd think that a 6gph nozzle should be big enough for anyone who runs 800cc or less injectors, unless they want to run a rediculous a amount of injection.

Simple questions to ask yourself when picking a nozzle.... What percent injection to petrol do I want? What size injectors do I have? Check out posts 90-91 in this link if you wanna see my calculations.... They will tell you the least and most amount of injection you would get from a given nozzle on given injectors(assuming my calculations are close to correct).

The vari-cool controller was designed by people who possibly never tuned a car(with it or without it), and imo these people shouldn't be giving advice on nozzle size. It's not some kinda magical device that can break the laws of physics. In conclusion, don't get an 18gph nozzle just cause some random dude from coolingmist says it's "NOT too large", cause imo it probably is for most people. These are the same people who advertised that a 6gph nozzle would make any car(regardless of mods) run optimally because of their magical controller. Course I'm no expert, so.......

peace

Last edited by hippy; 09-11-2006 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 09-11-2006, 12:19 PM   #6
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There is no way that someone can be right when saying that an 18gph nozzle can't be too large just cause you have a controller when he has no clue what your setup is. This is cause there is still a minimum and maximum flow for a given nozzle. Many people who run sti injectors(assuming that you might have them) run anywhere from a 5-6gph nozzle(or even smaller). With an m6 nozzle(the one that came with your kit), you could most likely(as far as my calculations tell me) run 13% or more injection to fuel with 800cc or smaller injectors all the time. Because of this, I'd think that a 6gph nozzle should be big enough for anyone who runs 800cc or less injectors, unless they want to run a rediculous a amount of injection.

Simple questions to ask yourself when picking a nozzle.... What percent injection to petrol do I want? What size injectors do I have? Check out posts 90-91 in this link if you wanna see my calculations.... They will tell you the least and most amount of injection you would get from a given nozzle on given injectors(assuming my calculations are close to correct).

The vari-cool controller was designed by people who possibly never tuned a car(with it or without it), and imo these people shouldn't be giving advice on nozzle size. It's not some kinda magical device that can break the laws of physics. In conclusion, don't get an 18gph nozzle just cause some random dude from coolingmist says it's "NOT too large", cause imo it probably is for most people. These are the same people who advertised that a 6gph nozzle would make any car(regardless of mods) run optimally because of their magical controller. Course I'm no expert, so.......

peace
Quote:
. Course I'm no expert
glad to hear we agree.

We dont advertise that a 6 GPH nozzle will work with ANY car. Our controller kits ship with 2 nozzles a large and small that will work with most cars on the market. Those that have a greater need can tee the two together.

He wasnt asking us if should buy an 18 GPH, he said he already had one. In our experience with the WRX STI, he absolutely does not need anything larger and he does not need to purchase a smaller nozzle. That nozzle can work great with his setup. Thats the point of the controller. If he has our standard boost on/off kit I would agree that its too large.
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Old 09-11-2006, 12:32 PM   #7
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He did not say that he had the 18gph nozzle. Here are a few quotes from your website that people might find interesting.

Quote:
...4) Our controller has a 10 position knob that has 10 pre-programmed algorithms for spraying the water/methanol These range from a linear output to an aggresive output. The higher the number the more aggressive the flow. Because of this feature your vehicle can gain more HP and you dont have to worry about changing the nozzle size.....
Say what? Don't have to change nozzle size?

Quote:
Nozzle Types: Single Nozzle. Use this for MOST applications. NOTE: your kit will ship with our large and Medium nozzle, but you can only use 1 at a time...
^little quote from your website which contradicts what you guys just said.

Quote:
Clog Nozzle Detector/Status Flow Detector. This is a device that will detect the water flow....
another quote from your website.......bs

Quote:
2) Clog nozzle detector/water flow monitors are available for all kits. They blink when methanol flows and light up when you get a clog.
From site again.

There was another quote I can't find about your kits being safe while running 100% alc(but I can't find it). Shurflo doesn't seem to think this.

Here's a little food for thought though. Assuming your 18gph nozzle has a minimum flow of about 9gph, even with 800cc injectors, you would be running more then 25% injection to petrol all the time(according to my calculations). At 60% flow of the fuel system(which might correlate to 4000rpm and 20psi on a given car), you would probably not be able to run less then 40% injection to fuel. Imo this is not normal, and the 18gph nozzle is too big even for 800cc injectors(makes me wonder who would ever use a 6 and 18 together). Course the person who started this thread might have smaller injectors....

peace

Last edited by hippy; 09-11-2006 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 09-11-2006, 12:51 PM   #8
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He did not say that he had the 18gph nozzle. You guys have advertised that the 6gph nozzle with your controller would make any car run optimally, and I've argude that point back when you guys didn't send 18gph nozzles with your kit(which wasn't long ago). I'm not going to search for the info and relive the argument, cause I don't feel like taking the time(and calling you a liar since it's obviously pointless).
I see now that he is interested in the 18GPH nozzle so I mis-read. I thought he had that and thought it was too big.

Our kits dont ship with a 18, they ship with our new 16 GPH and our 6 GPH nozzle. We had some mis-prints on our site, I dont deny that but it was accidental and we removed it.

Quote:


Here's a little food for thought though. Assuming your 18gph nozzle has a minimum flow of about 9gph, even with 800cc injectors, you would be running more then 25% injection to petrol all the time(according to my calculations). At 60% flow of the fuel system(which might correlate to 4000rpm and 20psi on a given car), you would probably not be able to run less then 40% injection to fuel. Imo this is not normal, and the 18gph nozzle is too big even for 800cc injectors(makes me wonder who would ever use a 6 and 18 together). Course the person who started this thread might have smaller injectors....

peace
When we get calls for injector size we always take in consideration the type of car. EVO's and STIs tend to be able to use larger injectors. We have had STIs use the 18 with our controller without problems.

My original answer to this post was due to my mis-understanding. I thought he had a 18 and thought it would be too big. I believe in most cases the 18 will work fine with the WRX and our controller and in that case didn't think he needed to go to the expense of replacing it. Knowing he has not purchased an injector if he things the 6 is too small, I would recommend our 16 GPH.

Keep in mind, we have never had anyone with an STI with our controller say the nozzle is too big with the M15 and we have sold abit in the past like that.

Last edited by CMTech; 09-11-2006 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 09-11-2006, 01:14 PM   #9
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He wasnt asking us if should buy an 18 GPH, he said he already had one. In our experience with the WRX STI, he absolutely does not need anything larger and he does not need to purchase a smaller nozzle. That nozzle can work great with his setup. Thats the point of the controller.
Quote:
My original answer to this post was due to my mis-understanding.......Knowing he has not purchased an injector if he things the 6 is too small, I would recommend our 16 GPH.

Isn't your controller magical and that's why the 16gph(and 18gph when you mis-understood, teehee) nozzle can work great with his setup? Do you even know what his setup is? What am I missing here? Like I said b4, I don't think you should be recommending nozzle size. Just cause some people(or even all people) with your kits think they need an 18gph nozzle, that doesn't mean you should recommend it to everyone or give it to everyone with your kit. Maybe you guys should think about asking the user what size nozzle they want since you obviously have no clue what your doing?

To add, I do not think coolingmist has had any misprints. Imo they mislead people purposely, not necessarily in this thread, but in some of the quotes I've posted above and I can give many more from threads and their website to prove it even though I am not going to try because I think I have in the past. When caught in a lie, they backpeddle like it's nothing as seen above. I can give many many more quotes showing that, but I've already done that in the past(like with the misleading) and it's getting tiring. This has nothing to do with this thread though, and I'm sorry I've hijacked another one. Just tryin to help ya out with the nozzle size and understanding that imo you should ignore everything coolingmist says unless it has to do with installation or a problem with their kit, and it would still be a good idea to be skeptical. Course I'm no expert....

hippy

Last edited by hippy; 09-11-2006 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 09-11-2006, 02:00 PM   #10
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Isn't your controller magical and that's why the 16gph(and 18gph when you mis-understood, teehee) nozzle can work great with his setup? Do you even know what his setup is? What am I missing here? Like I said b4, I don't think you should be recommending nozzle size. Just cause some people(or even all people) with your kits think they need an 18gph nozzle, that doesn't mean you should recommend it to everyone or give it to everyone with your kit. Maybe you guys should think about asking the user what size nozzle they want since you obviously have no clue what your doing?

To add, I do not think coolingmist has had any misprints. Imo they mislead people purposely, not necessarily in this thread, but in some of the quotes I've posted above and I can give many more from threads and their website to prove it even though I am not going to try because I think I have in the past. When caught in a lie, they backpeddle like it's nothing as seen above. I can give many many more quotes showing that, but I've already done that in the past(like with the misleading) and it's getting tiring. This has nothing to do with this thread though, and I'm sorry I've hijacked another one. Just tryin to help ya out with the nozzle size and understanding that imo you should ignore everything coolingmist says unless it has to do with installation or a problem with their kit, and it would still be a good idea to be skeptical. Course I'm no expert....

hippy

Its no secret you dont like us, so I dont care. If you take all of those quotes above from our site and use them in CONTEXT they are correct. I didn't respond to this thread to help you. If you want to make it your lifes work to bash us go ahead.

To the original poster, call us if you need help.

Last edited by CMTech; 09-11-2006 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 09-11-2006, 02:18 PM   #11
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I am responding to this only for the benefit of others that dont understand.



Quote:
Originally Posted by hippy View Post
He did not say that he had the 18gph nozzle. Here are a few quotes from your website that people might find interesting.


Say what? Don't have to change nozzle size?

Most customers will not need to change the nozzle size if they gain more HP. Thats correct. If they are running a 16 GPH nozzle but only have the tuning button on 7, they are only at about 70% of the flow. Sure its possible that they need every bit of that 16 GPH nozzle, but for most customers they will not need to change nozzles.

Quote:



^little quote from your website which contradicts what you guys just said.

Actually, it does not contradict. The system ships with 2 nozzles, they can only use one at a time because it does not come with a tee or fitting for the second nozzle. They would need to purcahase a tee ,that is why they can only use one at a time. If they find they need more flow, they can simply get a tee.

Quote:

another quote from your website.......bs
It detects when the system is flowing based on Pressure. If you want to nit-pick the wording thats your business
Quote:



There was another quote I can't find about your kits being safe while running 100% alc(but I can't find it). Shurflo doesn't seem to think this.
Any of ours systems can run 100% alcohol. Our older black pump has Viton seals that YES is 100% alcohol safe (denatured). It is not 100% methanol safe.

our new black pump is 100% methanol safe as it has E.P.D.M. Seals. This new black pump is in our Controller kits sold after 9/1/2006 . Im not going to spend all day defending myself when my only purpose here was to help someone in need. Please let it go.

Last edited by CMTech; 09-11-2006 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 09-11-2006, 03:45 PM   #12
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.....Not woth gripin about, or arguing(after cooling down a bit).

Note that with a 16gph nozzle you will run more on low flow then your 6gph nozzle ran on high flow. As far as I know, this is true with any controller unless you're not running enough injection to be propperly atomized.<point

hippy

Last edited by hippy; 09-11-2006 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 09-12-2006, 11:28 AM   #13
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With my mods I had to step up to the 16 and I am the top end of that, and Hippy for once I agree with you. The 16 produces more on its lowest setting than the 6 on its highest.
I will be going much larger once I build my new motor over the winter, but for now the 16 has me dialed in.

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Old 09-12-2006, 03:35 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by dibblejr View Post
With my mods I had to step up to the 16 and I am the top end of that, and Hippy for once I agree with you. The 16 produces more on its lowest setting than the 6 on its highest.
I will be going much larger once I build my new motor over the winter, but for now the 16 has me dialed in.

Jay-R
Don't take this the wrong way man, but I got something for you to think about. You keep saying that you "had to" use the 16gph nozzle. Imo this is not the case because you can use a 1gph nozzle on any setup, or no injection at all. You are using a 16gph nozzle because you want to.. Not saying that it isn't a good size nozzle for your setup(cause it might be, and I don't know either way), but you did not have to use it, and your car might run better with a smaller nozzle if you had it tuned(or tuned it yourself) differently.

peace
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Old 09-12-2006, 04:55 PM   #15
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great info all around, c im running a 18g pnp with 800 cc injection and i got the kit a long time ago so i only got 1 nozzel the 6gph one, and my friend went to go tune with the same kit on the same car and the tuner couldnt get much out of it, he was running the max of the 6gph so i was thinking i might need to get something bigger

but now i reconsider that but then again if i can control it... im not sure what i want to do, im still very new, and i called my tuner and he isnt familiar with coolingmist number on the nozzel he says he knows about snowperformance onces and they got like a 1, 2, 3 deal not sure...
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Old 09-12-2006, 05:06 PM   #16
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How long have you been running this kit? Is your car tuned with it? Did you go to the same tuner your friend went to? If you haven't had your car tuned yet, you might wanna try using the nozzle you have, cause it just might be a good size for your setup. For what it's worth, your 6gph nozzle flows more then any of the aquamist nozzles at full flow. Does that mean you shouldn't use a bigger nozzle? Obviously not.

I have an 18g that I run at about 22-24psi. I have pinks(550ish) that run an a/f ratio of 12-12.5 to 1, and they get upto about 96% idc. I run 26degrees of timing in the 100% load column which is 22.5psi+. This is all with a little water(maybe 5gph, maybe 4 at max flow), and 93 octane fuel. I've run 13.5 to 1 at 20psi before. Does that mean anyone else should do any of this just cause I do? Obviously not.

The way I see it though(could be wrong), the richer the a/petrol ratio, the less injection will effectively raise octane at a given flow. Ie- One of the reasons we inject stuff is to seperate the petrol a given amount, and this helps the mixture act like it's a higher octane then if the petrol was there alone. Since there is more petrol in richer mixtures, we would have to inject more stuff while running richer mixtures to get the petrol serperated as much as if we had a leaner mixture. Because of this, running richer mixtures might make it seem like people are using too small a nozzle, when the truth might be that their air/petrol ratio is just too rich. Does that mean you will get more power by running a leaner a/f ratio with water injection? Obviously not. It's possible though, and there are other advantages of doing so.

You would save money on water, alc, and petrol with a given injection to petrol percent and a leaner a/f ratio. You wouldn't have to fill the injection tank as often. You wouldn't have to buy another nozzle. There wouldn't be as much upkeep on the injection system. Your engine would probably be less prone to misfire, cylinder wash, and hydrolock. I can't think of any other advantages of running leaner a/f ratios with injection, but there are probably many more.

peace

Last edited by hippy; 09-12-2006 at 10:22 PM.
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Old 09-12-2006, 06:52 PM   #17
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m3 on my stage 2 coolingmist kit installed on an 04 sti. my AFRs are right where I want them and my IDCs are down about 15%. I am a happy camper.
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:28 PM   #18
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Hippy,
I ran a 6gph nozzle, however I could take more advantage of the 16gph nozzle. I know you can run any nozzle, however the more flow I can get utilizing the pump and a larger spray pattern nozzle allows me to advance my timing more and with the more mix gives me a little power.
I am testing every option that I get in order to help me determine what I want to do with my next engine. I am trying to squeeze as much safe power that I can before detonation occurrs.
My car did run great with my tune on the 6, but I had more room for improvement and yes you are right I want to run the larger injection to see what I can gain from it.
Right now Im not running shiot because I broke my friggen accellerator pedal rod arm so I am awaiting parts.
The bottom line is, I bought the kit I wanted, I chose to upgrade as I went along, and I am extremely satisfied with my purchase. I have been building engines ( I even build rotary engines) and tuning and racing turbo/supercharged cars for about 25 years so this is not a subject I take lightly.
I am a mellow easy to get along person and will help anyone that I can and only charge for my gas and lunch ect. I do what I do because I love learning new things and helping people, this helps me broaden my horizon. As soon as I get my surgery and retire from the Army the North Carolina coast will know who I am.
Enough with the boring stuff, I gotta go get back to trying to figure out why my AP broke.

It is a pleasure to discuss WI with you and I do not want to come off as an Ahole, and by no means do not take anything I say as sarcastic. Sometimes the way I come off is from all the meds the Army has me on.



Quote:
Originally Posted by hippy View Post
Don't take this the wrong way man, but I got something for you to think about. You keep saying that you "had to" use the 16gph nozzle. Imo this is not the case because you can use a 1gph nozzle on any setup, or no injection at all. You are using a 16gph nozzle because you want to.. Not saying that it isn't a good size nozzle for your setup(cause it might be, and I don't know either way), but you did not have to use it, and your car might run better with a smaller nozzle if you had it tuned(or tuned it yourself) differently.

peace
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:32 PM   #19
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This is what I like to see/ hear. Your 15% is almost right at where I have been able to run since my 16gph change.
In some occassions I have seen as much as 33% drop in my temps. Only when all of the outside elements are perfect, but I run around 18%-21% lower with my VF22 and supporting mods.
Congrats on being happy.

Jay-R

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcblues View Post
m3 on my stage 2 coolingmist kit installed on an 04 sti. my AFRs are right where I want them and my IDCs are down about 15%. I am a happy camper.
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Old 09-12-2006, 11:18 PM   #20
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Imo that's a big nozzle for your turbo. Are you running 100% alc? I also want to say sorry if I offended you, and I hope it doesn't seem like I'm attackin you.

peace
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Old 09-12-2006, 11:24 PM   #21
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Its fine for my setup.
I take everything on the boards with a grain if salt, there are no ill feelings on my part for anyone on the boards. Everyone has a right to expree their feelings and /or knowledge. Once the rest of the world figures it out we will all get along better.
Maybe some day we will cross paths and its best not to burn bridges in your life, you never know.

Jay-R
Out

Quote:
Originally Posted by hippy View Post
Imo that's a big nozzle for your turbo. Are you running 100% alc? I also want to say sorry if I offended you, and I hope it doesn't seem like I'm attackin you.

peace
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Old 09-13-2006, 03:41 AM   #22
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so what do u guys think would be a good setup for my 18g and 800cc modified injectors on a wrx? should i stick with the 6gph nozzel or go up to the 16gph? and no its not installed yet on the car, and not tune yet obviously because its not in the car, the tuner will be clark from vvid racing
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Old 09-13-2006, 08:19 AM   #23
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With your m5 nozzle, you should be able to run 13.5% or more injection to petrol everywhere in the rpm range(according to my calculations). Imo this could be good nozzle for your setup depending on how the car is tuned. You could also go bigger or smaller if you want. I really don't see the need since the nozzle seems like a good size for your setup to me.

It would probably be a good idea to ask your tuner what he thinks about nozzle size and mixture. You have many options, and your tuner might just be the best person to help you decide which ones to pick.

By clark at vivid, do you mean the guy on here with the sn azscoobie? How is someone at vivid racing going to tune your car if you're in cal and vivid is not? Just curious I guess.

peace
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Old 09-13-2006, 03:20 PM   #24
Thran
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oo he is flying in for a group tune or if i had too i was going to drive to arizona i got family down there anyways
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Old 09-13-2006, 03:25 PM   #25
hippy
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I've heard that he's a really good tuner. It would probably be wise to ask him what nozzle and injection mixture to use with your setup(sorry for repeating myself).

peace
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