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Old 02-15-2012, 09:14 AM   #2601
fastnoypi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post

The other thing is that the pink injectors are said to have a better solenoid in them.

.
Aren't the pinks sourced from Denso just like the light and blue oem injectors? Why would they have a better solenoid if they meet oem spec?

Is it like the JDM pink coil pack thing? just kidding with you Vlad..but srs.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:23 AM   #2602
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thanks for the tips.

Will be kicking the car in the groin now.

Intermittent problems suck. Quick question. Does an older JDM engine code misfires ? or cylinder roughness ? I've had an HCR32 skyline a few years back and the thing could run 3 cylinders down and still be clueless about it ( did it have a cel light???? )
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:33 AM   #2603
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Fastnyopi: I think I've posted quite enough info about the coil packs for everyone to understand the differences between them, as opposed to writing "they're not the same", and that seems lost on you.

This time, as you don't believe me, do your own research. Look at the forums, at what vendors post, search....

Last edited by Vlad; 02-15-2012 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:52 AM   #2604
fastnoypi
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Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
I think I've posted quite enough info about the coil packs for everyone to understand the differences between them, as opposed to writing "they're not the same", and that seems lost on you.
This time, as you don't believe me, do your own research. Look at the forums, at what vendors post, search. And I am not kidding either...
You need to lighten up and get your morning coffee.
Apparently you missed the sarcasm about the coil packs. What we're discussing is the injector solenoids here. Denso has high manufacturing standards across their line. You pointed out the pink injectors have better solenoids than the others.
Btw, vendors are vendors, DW included, they sell "refurbished" injectors from customer trade in's. Their stock is only as good as what the public sends them, then they modify them for more flow. Take their comments about OEM component (solenoid) quality with a grain of salt.
Subaru would not spend millions on R&D to choose a Denso injector line with lesser than optimal qualities to supply in their USDM cars.
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Old 02-15-2012, 11:30 AM   #2605
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I think there is a bit of misunderstanding, ok let's try to clarify it:
- you're right about manufacturers vs rebuilders.
- I need to clarify that by better, I mean capable to sustain more hours of higher duty cycle operation.
- I believe that the duty cycle that is needed to sustain the jdm AFR which is mandated by the OEM timing based tuning, with cells in the 9's at high load, out of a 560cc injector, makes these live at higher IDC than a blue, for longer time. This can mean that the solenoid selected from Denso, is one to accommodate high frequency sustained operation.

So, I don't know this as a fact, but info at hand, as well as vendors (that sell new pinks) seem to concur.

My pinks were not refurbished by DW, but by Sourh bay and I had them configured for 700cc.

You're right about the refurbishers re-processing injectors, this is why I wanted to have my particular ones done.

Last edited by Vlad; 02-15-2012 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:17 PM   #2606
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The coils packs made by three companys. I have tested them myself on my work bench when I had a misfire issue with Javis car. I was unable to use my ohm meter as temp would greatly effect the readings. I tried placing them in the Fridge for an hour and testing again. That helped but I gave up and decide to test them using a ratio method.

This was done by using my calibrated Bench DC supply to feed a Low DC voltage to the primary side of the coil and reading the secondary side of the coil with my HV stick on to my Fluke. From there, I was able to calculate a ratio of primary to secondary voltage. if you try this be warned you might "taze" yourself in the process

The older black coils fail and by now are nearing 10 years old. The newer grey coils have a slightly different ratio. I think to reduce heat in the coil but I really do not know. The JDM coil was exactly the same as the Grey.

The ones that fail are the ones on the Pass side because there is incredible heat on that side of the engine due to the header and uppipe. Good shielding here is a nice thing to have.

As for the injectors. The Pinks have a faster return time then the later year injectors. I prefer then to the later year and slower Denso injectors.

They are not the best injector out there however. The ID's are the best injector on the market(At time of writing) in terms of response, spray pattern and the ability to obtain higher flow sizes. but you already knew that.

For the JDM 2.0 engine with most bolt on turbos the ID725s are the best choice. They really tune smooth and produce the most power. They are also a good choice for STG2 cars like STIs and 2.5 WRXs. Not to big as to reduce resolution across the pulse scale but big enough for a VF.

People make the mistake of purchasing injectors that are to large for the engine all the time. Its really sad as a tuner. The injector only has an operating range of about 1 to 18 MS. When you slap on a huge injector and get the car tuned you only use 1 to say 10ms. Now the engine must operate at every load including idle at a little over half its resolution. The goal is to find an injector that runs 80 % at your max power. Then, The car will return good mileage and power.

The other common mith is that if you run the injectors at 100 % they will fail. This came from 30 years ago with a diff type of injector. Modern injectors will run 100% all the time and not burn out. Some factory subarus are running 100% and never fail. To prove this, I took a WRX light blue and hooked it to clip leads and set constant voltage to it. After 30 minutes it was warm but not hot. Even if it was run at 100% it would be there for a moment at time and hotter just because its in the engine bay.

Back to work!

C

Last edited by Clark Turner; 02-15-2012 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:24 PM   #2607
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good info, thx clark
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:18 PM   #2608
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okay guys/gals. i need some help. i got my old 02 wrx harness from my parted out car and decided i wanted to mess with moving the pins out of the terminal. i startd with the ecu one and got that locking mechanism to pop up about 1/8". got a few of the terminals to come out pretty easy.
next is the black plug on the drivers side. its got a white insert on the side that goes to the engine harness. i cant figure out how to get the white insert out....

as far as the light grey/orange plug on the passenger side i got that all squared away as well. now to just find some pins...
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Old 02-15-2012, 11:13 PM   #2609
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nvm i got it! after 40 more min of ****ing with it she popped up and wiggled it off. who the hell could ever work on this ****. its too small for even the little asian handles lol. no offense to anyone but seriously....
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:15 AM   #2610
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AVCS woes......
Went to tune my car last night and we could not get the avcs to function.

We swapped some wires around and we got a CEL for cam position sensor and on that same bank we were seeing like 78 degrees of advance on that one side and nothing on the other side.

We swapped some wires again and we were back to 0 and 0 on both sides but no CEL.
I'm pretty sure it is a wiring problem at this point.
I don't think I am putting the wires in the right location.
A local Nasioc'r who made the harness for me is coming over with his 05 ej207 swap and were going to compare wiring pin outs, that way we can eliminate the wiring as a problem.
Is there anything else I can check?

On the wire diagrams how do you know what is front and what is back on the connectors for the pin out locations?
Wire end facing you? Or is it connector end facing you?
I think this is our problem.
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:26 AM   #2611
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Originally Posted by azscooby View Post
AVCS woes......
Went to tune my car last night and we could not get the avcs to function.

We swapped some wires around and we got a CEL for cam position sensor and on that same bank we were seeing like 78 degrees of advance on that one side and nothing on the other side.

We swapped some wires again and we were back to 0 and 0 on both sides but no CEL.
I'm pretty sure it is a wiring problem at this point.
I don't think I am putting the wires in the right location.
A local Nasioc'r who made the harness for me is coming over with his 05 ej207 swap and were going to compare wiring pin outs, that way we can eliminate the wiring as a problem.
Is there anything else I can check?

On the wire diagrams how do you know what is front and what is back on the connectors for the pin out locations?
Wire end facing you? Or is it connector end facing you?
I think this is our problem.
is it idling correctly even with the wires connected wrong ?

If you unpluf the sensor ( front one ) ?
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:27 AM   #2612
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^^^ What year EJ207 do you have? Did you replace your Transmission as well or still stock 2002 WRX?
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:36 AM   #2613
fastnoypi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azscooby View Post
AVCS woes......
Went to tune my car last night and we could not get the avcs to function.

We swapped some wires around and we got a CEL for cam position sensor and on that same bank we were seeing like 78 degrees of advance on that one side and nothing on the other side.

We swapped some wires again and we were back to 0 and 0 on both sides but no CEL.
I'm pretty sure it is a wiring problem at this point.
I don't think I am putting the wires in the right location.
A local Nasioc'r who made the harness for me is coming over with his 05 ej207 swap and were going to compare wiring pin outs, that way we can eliminate the wiring as a problem.
Is there anything else I can check?

On the wire diagrams how do you know what is front and what is back on the connectors for the pin out locations?
Wire end facing you? Or is it connector end facing you?
I think this is our problem.
most of the time you aren't going to get a CEL, there are a handful of things that have to be just right. Coolant temp has to be at operating temp, NPS signal has to match the ecu so it is "1" in gear, good grounding, good avcs solenoid plug connections.. just as few things off the top of my head, might be missing a few things that i came across when troubleshooting mine.
I could have posted it in this thread earlier, along with the VVT angle to look for when logging on RR.
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:46 AM   #2614
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I have v8 swap in 2002 trans, so NSS should match.
Car isles and runs great, no problems with that.
When we swapped some wires around we got one side to log like 70 degrees or something really high. That is when it started running really bad and we got the CEL for cam position sensor. But only one side was showing anything, same side that had CEL other side was 0.
I'm wondering if that wiring was correct and the other side was not functioning because of CEL?
Maybe it was working correctly at that point and I have a bad sensor?
The CEL was for the side that was showing advance.....other side was still at 0 (the brand new one)

Anything small I might be overlooking?

Time to order a tactrix cable, anyone got an extra?

Any ideas?
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Old 02-16-2012, 12:04 PM   #2615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azscooby View Post
I have v8 swap in 2002 trans, so NSS should match.
Car isles and runs great, no problems with that.
When we swapped some wires around we got one side to log like 70 degrees or something really high. That is when it started running really bad and we got the CEL for cam position sensor. But only one side was showing anything, same side that had CEL other side was 0.
I'm wondering if that wiring was correct and the other side was not functioning because of CEL?
Maybe it was working correctly at that point and I have a bad sensor?
The CEL was for the side that was showing advance.....other side was still at 0 (the brand new one)

Anything small I might be overlooking?

Time to order a tactrix cable, anyone got an extra?

Any ideas?
I'm going to go log mine and report back. Having the EXACT SAME ISSUES.

I hope the select monitor works.

Your CEL, what ''bank'' did it give you, A or B ?

for comparison, I have a 6 speed jdm. Mine idles like a V8 with cams. I'm getting backfires ( or afterfires, dunno ) in the exhaust. Reeeeeeks of gas.

There goes 45 $ worth of plugs/oil.
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Old 02-16-2012, 12:06 PM   #2616
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Ok, so now......
I left both oil solenoids unplugged and I get a CEL for ocv p1308 and p1309...WTF?
So the computer is seeing them?
Could I have damaged one of them by crossing wires? Popped a fuse?
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Old 02-16-2012, 12:12 PM   #2617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azscooby View Post
Ok, so now......
I left both oil solenoids unplugged and I get a CEL for ocv p1308 and p1309...WTF?
So the computer is seeing them?
Could I have damaged one of them by crossing wires? Popped a fuse?
P1306 OCV Solenoid Valve Signal 1 Circuit Malfunction (Open)
P1307 OCV Solenoid Valve Signal 1 Circuit Malfunction (Short)
P1308 OCV Solenoid Valve Signal 2 Circuit Malfunction (Open)
P1309 OCV Solenoid Valve Signal 2 Circuit Malfunction (Short)

indeed. wtf. I think your codes refers to only one of the two solenoids.
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Old 02-16-2012, 12:48 PM   #2618
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Ok, so now......
I left both oil solenoids unplugged and I get a CEL for ocv p1308 and p1309...WTF?
The code goes away when they are plugged in.
So the computer is seeing them?
Could I have damaged one of them by crossing wires? Popped a fuse?
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Old 02-16-2012, 12:52 PM   #2619
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Wrick , thanks!
Do you happen to know which is which? I'm guessing 1 is right side?

If they are both disconnected why would I only get one side CEL?

Gotta check my wiring.
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Old 02-16-2012, 01:51 PM   #2620
azscooby
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On the harness plugs are they numbered on the plugs themselves somewhere?
I think I am getting my wiring confused as to which direction the pins are numbered.

I am almost positive my wiring is correct at the ECU.
The other two locations I am unsure since the plugs are symmetrical and look the same from both sides.

Now since I have moved them from their original location I can't go back and double check.

Any ideas on how to make sure I'm looking at them correctly?
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Old 02-16-2012, 02:27 PM   #2621
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from looking at the ds1 diagram i think if ur looking at the plug as if u were the ecu going into the plug. same goes for the other plugs. looking at the face of it and not the rear side were the wires come out. its all fun and games until avcs doesnt work.

anyone know were to buy shielded wire? i thought someone mentioned it but i forget were. Erik never got back to me azscooby
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Old 02-16-2012, 02:47 PM   #2622
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I can't help you with the wiring.

Mine are pulling timing simultaneously, like 15 deg. each. I guess my wiring is good.

Found my culprit, MAF giving 28g/s, standing still, with a little throttle haha

it still fouled a plug
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:26 PM   #2623
WhiteBgeye02
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dumping fuel like a mofo^

so did u use the face of the plug or the rear(wire side) of the plug to reference the ds1 diagram?
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:45 PM   #2624
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Originally Posted by WhiteBgeye02 View Post
dumping fuel like a mofo^

so did u use the face of the plug or the rear(wire side) of the plug to reference the ds1 diagram?
tell me about it. 3rd oil change in 100ft.
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Old 02-16-2012, 05:07 PM   #2625
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I used the front side (not where the wires come out.)

I'm going to go home today and do some continuity checks, I should be able to trace back the correct wires testing each one at a time.

The plug at the ECU is asymmetric so you can't really mess that one up, its the other two that are the ones I'm worried about.

I will test them tonight to find out.
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