Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Sunday April 20, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-12-2012, 12:18 PM   #3551
Clark Turner
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 178047
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: AZ/Vegas
Vehicle:
02 WRX STI Spec C
Black

Default

I already posted not to run Redline oil in these motors. Maybe you missed it. I have seen rod bearing failures on these motors and in all cases it was redline. One of them was in my custody. I sent the oil to have it tested. It came back at less then 5wt new for 10/40 labeled oil.

Have you torn down the motor yet? A Scuffed piston sounds like a rod bearing knocking. Scuffed pistons on these motors is very very common. In fact, I would not race one in stock form. In all cases of proffesional racing, They remove the pistons, clearance the bores and stick the pistons back in with new rigs. The factory piston to bore clearance is to tight for racing applications and they will scuff.

My First v7 had all four bearings scored. That was 100% my fault. I was doing Donuts at 7000 rpm and oil flung away from the pickup tube.. DOH. Bic lighter. Use em up, throw em out.



C
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Clark Turner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 12:31 PM   #3552
fastnoypi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 6886
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
MY01 EJ207 HTA35r
nothing to see, i'm stock

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Turner View Post

My First v7 had all four bearings scored. That was 100% my fault. I was doing Donuts at 7000 rpm and oil flung away from the pickup tube.. DOH. Bic lighter. Use em up, throw em out.



C
Clark, you have to admit, rwd conversion and the 30R donuts was pretty awesome at the time!
Shiny bearing pieces at the bottom of your oil pan, not so much.
fastnoypi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 12:32 PM   #3553
WRick
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 86107
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: 10% REAL FRUIT JUICE
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Turner View Post
I already posted not to run Redline oil in these motors. Maybe you missed it. I have seen rod bearing failures on these motors and in all cases it was redline. One of them was in my custody. I sent the oil to have it tested. It came back at less then 5wt new for 10/40 labeled oil.

Have you torn down the motor yet? A Scuffed piston sounds like a rod bearing knocking. Scuffed pistons on these motors is very very common. In fact, I would not race one in stock form. In all cases of proffesional racing, They remove the pistons, clearance the bores and stick the pistons back in with new rigs. The factory piston to bore clearance is to tight for racing applications and they will scuff.

My First v7 had all four bearings scored. That was 100% my fault. I was doing Donuts at 7000 rpm and oil flung away from the pickup tube.. DOH. Bic lighter. Use em up, throw em out.



C
I missed that actually. I've ALWAYS used motul in my previous subaru's without issue. Pricey, but still cheaper dans an engine. The build had less than 1500 miles. It was a freshly built shortblock, with forged wossner pistons. Engine block was properly machined and measured prior to fitting the internals. These pistons were NOT custom pistons, and were made for the 207. For the sake of the engine builder, I'm taking the engine out of the car, and sending him a half short block. I want to take a head off and see for myself.

Again, thank god I got myself one of the best Subaru mechanics I know. I'll have the short block in 3 hours in my office. Can't wait to take the oil pan off.

I'Ve said it before and will again, Subaru engines are ****, but it aint stopping me from starting over haha
WRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 02:00 PM   #3554
Clark Turner
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 178047
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: AZ/Vegas
Vehicle:
02 WRX STI Spec C
Black

Default

Ok. I thought it was a stock EJ207 engine. Sounds to me like you need to get a new engine builder. But who knows. A tune can blow the rod bearings out right away also. There are so many things that can pop em and sometimes you dont find out until. The next one goes. Clogged injectors, Leaking intake pipes, China fuel pumps that get hot and flow half the fuel on the track, and oil starvation issues.

Good luck with it!
Clark Turner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 05:11 PM   #3555
WRick
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 86107
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: 10% REAL FRUIT JUICE
Default

for your viewing pleasure

https://picasaweb.google.com/1112238...eat=directlink

edit :

I took alot of pics of the intake valves because I though the guides were sticking out ! ALl 8 of them ! After searching around I noticed they are all like this...

man I got scared.

Well, a bearing sharted.
WRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 05:33 PM   #3556
Clark Turner
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 178047
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: AZ/Vegas
Vehicle:
02 WRX STI Spec C
Black

Default

What pistons are those man?
Clark Turner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 06:24 PM   #3557
Vlad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46135
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
02 WRX
Powered by Sti V9 Spec C

Default

Built on an S202 engine?
Vlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 06:31 PM   #3558
WRick
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 86107
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: 10% REAL FRUIT JUICE
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Turner View Post
What pistons are those man?
I know, had NEVER heard of them before.

Long story short, we were out of Mahle's, and a local shop had the correct bore for my engine lying around.

http://www.woessner-kolben.de/en/company/history.html

deutschland you say ?

Good news is they didn't crap on me. Yet.
WRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 06:35 PM   #3559
WRick
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 86107
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: 10% REAL FRUIT JUICE
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
Built on an S202 engine?
correct sir.
WRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 09:08 PM   #3560
WRick
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 86107
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: 10% REAL FRUIT JUICE
Default

what do you guys think about the gunk on the pistons ? looks like alot to me.
WRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 09:42 PM   #3561
fastnoypi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 6886
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
MY01 EJ207 HTA35r
nothing to see, i'm stock

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRick View Post
what do you guys think about the gunk on the pistons ? looks like alot to me.
what injectors were you running? it looks like you ran this for really low miles. I'm just wondering why the carbon deposits aren't coated evenly.
When i looked at mine piston tops they had an even thin carbon coat but i had a ton more miles.
The first piston pic looks crusted as if the ring didn't seal properly and had oil blow by. IMO, your plugs looks like oil as well, not the typical light ash color for a good burn, but again it might just be the lighting of the photo.
fastnoypi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 10:16 PM   #3562
K1WRC
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 64511
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego
Vehicle:
2003 WRX sedan WRB
VF36 EJ207

Default

Here is an interesting dyno comparison of my old EJ205 setup vs. my new EJ207 setup.
Both had/have basically the same mods:
STI pink injectors
Walbro Fuel pump
No TGV's
STI intercoolers, albeit USDM vs JDM
VF34 vs twinscroll VF36
Grimmspeed BCS
Full exhaust
Turbo Inlet
Cold Air Intake

Another great comparo piece is that the conditions were nearly identical, same temp, and almost same humidity. Obviously its the same dyno...

If anyone is thinking about swapping their old EJ205 out, I hope this will give them a good idea about what differences to expect using the EJ207 over their old motor.

The red lines (yay for colored pencils their red toner was about out) are the old EJ205 and the blue lines are the EJ207



My impressions: I love it, the extra torque is significant, 50ft lbs over the EJ205 and sooner as well. Besides the increase in torque the throttle response is just incredible. Only about 15hp more but I have another 800rpm to work with and its basically a flat line out to 8,000 (the dyno pick up is wacky at those rpms so it doesn't show up). I'm sure on better gas or e85 there is more to be had but that will be for another day, I'm pretty happy right now.

Thanks again Paul!
K1WRC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 01:19 AM   #3563
Stretchvelcroy
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 299169
Join Date: Oct 2011
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Nelson bc. For Now Duncan, BC
Vehicle:
2002 Wrx/JDM STi v.7
Dirrrty

Default

What version? I assume the v.8 if it is twin scroll?

I am putting in a version 7 now, hope to have her running tommorow

The STI inter cooler has damage so for now, I will be using my old beefy one.


So excited!
Stretchvelcroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 01:34 AM   #3564
K1WRC
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 64511
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego
Vehicle:
2003 WRX sedan WRB
VF36 EJ207

Default

I think its a Version 9??? I'm not entirely sure which year is the cutoff between V8 and V9. All I know is that the motor came out of an '05 STI Spec C
K1WRC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 02:04 AM   #3565
Impreza WR Rex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 40060
Join Date: Jul 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Chitown
Vehicle:
2002 EJ207 Bug-STi
JR TUNED

Default

check out my v8 swap blog...

http://bugsti.wordpress.com/
Impreza WR Rex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 02:53 AM   #3566
GC84ever
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 50433
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, eh.
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5RS
BDP

Default

does anyone have charts that can compare a stock EJ207 vs stock EJ257?
GC84ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 09:15 AM   #3567
WRick
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 86107
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: 10% REAL FRUIT JUICE
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastnoypi View Post
what injectors were you running? it looks like you ran this for really low miles. I'm just wondering why the carbon deposits aren't coated evenly.
When i looked at mine piston tops they had an even thin carbon coat but i had a ton more miles.
The first piston pic looks crusted as if the ring didn't seal properly and had oil blow by. IMO, your plugs looks like oil as well, not the typical light ash color for a good burn, but again it might just be the lighting of the photo.
Engine was new, about 1500 miles.

Injectors are ID725's

I found the plugs to look good actually!
WRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 11:09 PM   #3568
Torquey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 175334
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Dallas, TX
Vehicle:
2003 Impreza WRX
JDM v8 EJ207 WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impreza WR Rex View Post
check out my v8 swap blog...

http://bugsti.wordpress.com/

Very nice and thanks for sharing. I'll be following it
Torquey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 09:21 AM   #3569
WRick
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 86107
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: 10% REAL FRUIT JUICE
Default

I got a report in yesterday from blackstone labs of an oil sample I sent in @ 2500 km's on that new engine.

It was still on break in oil ( regular dino oil ).

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxF...2NuR3ljRlhHSHM
WRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 11:08 AM   #3570
OppositeLock
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 54060
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: N Jersey
Vehicle:
Now: v8 207/v6 5mt
Then: JRTune fastest td04

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by K1WRC View Post
Here is an interesting dyno comparison of my old EJ205 setup vs. my new EJ207 setup.
Both had/have basically the same mods:
STI pink injectors
Walbro Fuel pump
No TGV's
STI intercoolers, albeit USDM vs JDM
VF34 vs twinscroll VF36
Grimmspeed BCS
Full exhaust
Turbo Inlet
Cold Air Intake

Another great comparo piece is that the conditions were nearly identical, same temp, and almost same humidity. Obviously its the same dyno...

If anyone is thinking about swapping their old EJ205 out, I hope this will give them a good idea about what differences to expect using the EJ207 over their old motor.

The red lines (yay for colored pencils their red toner was about out) are the old EJ205 and the blue lines are the EJ207

My impressions: I love it, the extra torque is significant, 50ft lbs over the EJ205 and sooner as well. Besides the increase in torque the throttle response is just incredible. Only about 15hp more but I have another 800rpm to work with and its basically a flat line out to 8,000 (the dyno pick up is wacky at those rpms so it doesn't show up). I'm sure on better gas or e85 there is more to be had but that will be for another day, I'm pretty happy right now.

Thanks again Paul!

Just curious, what are the boost differences between the two and is AVCS functional on the swap?
OppositeLock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 12:17 PM   #3571
K1WRC
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 64511
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego
Vehicle:
2003 WRX sedan WRB
VF36 EJ207

Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by OppositeLock View Post
Just curious, what are the boost differences between the two and is AVCS functional on the swap?
I believe the old EJ205 setup was 19.5psi tapering to about 16 or 15 at redline. The EJ207 is 21psi tapering to 14.5 by 8k. He said he took a little boost out of the top to keep it happy on 91.

Yes, I wired in the avcs for the EJ207, I believe that's one of the reasons there is such a big torque gain at lower revs.

Last edited by K1WRC; 06-14-2012 at 05:42 PM.
K1WRC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 05:29 PM   #3572
Zaider
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 154281
Join Date: Jul 2007
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, AB
Vehicle:
2002 V7 EJ207 Dom1.5
MBP

Default

Alright. Need some help tracking down what is going on during tuning of my V7 EJ207. I originally had the VF30 at stage 2, peak boost was at 19.5psi and no issues.

A little while ago, I installed the Dom 1.5XTR, DW750's (used), and Maddad UEL headers. Was driving it around on a safe tune and it was fine.

Yesterday, went to my tuner, Airboy, and he started tuning the car. Everything was going fine until he turned the boost up past 18psi. When that happens, the car seems to misfire randomly and slightly in the mid-rpm range (5000rpm-ish). No CEL's. The car just stutters a bit on the dyno and the torque curve drops about 25ft-lb. Then it continues on as normal. The AFR goes a bit lean as the O2 sensor reads the unburnt O2 in the exhaust. It doesn't seem to be knocking.

We tried a couple things. First we changed the spark plugs. I am using Iridium IK24's. My understanding is they are equivalent to the 8EIX. I know that the 7EIX is whats recommended but I figured I'd go one step colder. The gap on them was 0.026. That didn't fix anything.

Next, my tuner thought it might be the cam position sensor so he tried spacing it out a bit to see if it would get a better reading. That didn't help anything either.

We've currently used my MBC (in hybrid with the Prodrive EBCS) to limit boost to 18psi and the car drives just fine through the entire RPM range. No misfire/stutter.

Thoughts of what I should try next? Should I order the 7EIX and see if that fixes it?

My tuner is sending me logs over tonight and I will post them, but he says it doesn't look any different than when the car doesn't misfire.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.
Zaider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 05:47 PM   #3573
WhiteBgeye02
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 224785
Join Date: Sep 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: neenah
Vehicle:
2005 wrx-jdm207
i went black...

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRick View Post
I got a report in yesterday from blackstone labs of an oil sample I sent in @ 2500 km's on that new engine.

It was still on break in oil ( regular dino oil ).

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxF...2NuR3ljRlhHSHM
wow you must have some lead content in your gas because that def is not normal. the high levels of sodium and silicone is also strange. was the oil changed before this at all? i always do 100-200 miles on oil then change it out for something a bit better for another 1500 then change again to what you are going to use and go for the regular 3k intervals. the first two make sure nothing extra is built up inside from rebuild gets out fast. esp assembly lube and any other small fluid amounts that go in.
WhiteBgeye02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 06:00 PM   #3574
fastnoypi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 6886
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
MY01 EJ207 HTA35r
nothing to see, i'm stock

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaider View Post
I am using Iridium IK24's.
IK24s are too cold, even for the hp that Dom 1.5xtr can push.
The only person that i know that was somewhat successful with 8eix or equivalent was Ebeck but in hindsight, the 8eix were a bandaid for AZ 91 piss/heat and scale build up from Torco.
I noticed I lost signifcant torque when i tried the 8eix. Never had a problem when i switched back to IK22's or 7eix series.

Btw, did you clean and flow those used injectors? Something to think about if swapping plugs doesn't solve your problem.
fastnoypi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 07:03 PM   #3575
kpluiten
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 120273
Join Date: Jul 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: AZ
Vehicle:
06 WRBWRXWGN
Now with 100% more Spec-C

Default

Are you blowing out your spark?
kpluiten is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ej207 owner wants opinions adbramsay Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 2 02-26-2011 07:29 PM
Ej207 V6 AndrewFD3 Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 10 06-03-2010 04:53 PM
JDM Sti EJ207 V9 crank 75mm or billet crank (K1, Manley) VENDORS ??? L'frise Private 'Wanted' Classifieds 7 06-03-2010 09:24 AM
08 ej207 JDM dual AVCS heads on a built v7 ej207 icev7 Built Motor Discussion 17 02-21-2010 03:21 PM
Ver 8 EJ207 Owners Check In spoolinsuby Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 21 10-17-2005 01:56 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.