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Old 10-09-2012, 10:05 AM   #4451
Vlad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnfelstead View Post
A V9 JDM STi engine will run using a V7 onwards ECU, just make sure you remap it accordingly.

Changes to the V9 engine included an increase in exhaust valve clearance to 0.35mm, V7/8 use 0.25mm. Cam profile is the same.

V8 onwards has a stronger conrod than V7.

V9 has a cast piston made in the same way as the USDM STi, V7/8 has a forged piston.

Lots of info is available in the Group N homologation papers for the various models, lots of myths out there about the Spec C, up until the V9, the Spec C was never FIA homologated, and even then it was the JDM STi that was homologated, with the Spec C aditions added later, they always used the JDM STi as the base model for the PWRC rally cars.

Link for FIA Homologation sheets http://www.sti.jp/e/competitor/n_homologation/2005.html
There is an agreement here about what we call a V8. This is for the purpose of us being all on the same page in regards to what we speak of.

Much like you pointed out in your other thread and I have pointed to the link, we know that Subaru stopped calling them versions and we are trying to all talk about the same cars when we designate, by our own choice, a New Age GDB JDM Sti a "version".
On a quick note, the convention is that only the JDM cars will be called versions, the USDM are called by the shape of their headlights.

With this said, the easiest (and not the most accurate) way to identify what we call a V8 is the cars where the twinscroll started.
The beginning of the V8 is the beginning of twinscroll (more or less).

With this said, the information on this board, so far, has been that the V8 cars have hypereuthectic cast pistons and not forged pistons.
The back-up for this information (as far as I'm concerned, because others here have seen the V8 piston in person), is in the part number for the pistons.
If you have information about these being forged, please post the location.

V9 get the updated rods and cams, revision E is the beginning. The backup for this is in part numbers. Sponaugle researched all of this and I can confirm.
In UK, Roger Clark sells the V9 rods separately and mentions them as being different.

The information about valve clearance is interesting, thanks.

About the temp sensor in the intake:
There have been a few that worked on the speed-density ROM, which is the Group N ROM on Romraider. You can find there a lot of details about this.
As I'm sure you know, the Group N ROM comes with the Group N ECU sold by Subaru (other than it now being available everywhere for download for free).
The Group N ECU does turn out to have physical significan differences at the pins inside. One difference (documented with photo on romraider) is that the pin for intake air temperature is soldered inside the ECu housing to the pin that comes from the intake sensor. The pin from the MAF is internally cut.

This is what I meant, when I wrote in the EJ207 Info that the sensor is not quite figured out yet.
Also because there is even more to it.

The Group N ECU is only sold by Subaru for non Spec C cars (japanparts).
I speculate that there is a reason for this and that the Spec C cars have a hardware facillity inside the ECU to do input switching between the two temp sources, which the Sti does not have.
I am about to test this with my car, as I've loaded the Goup N Rom several times and hope to be able to confirm it. I have both sensors wired into the ECU.
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Last edited by Vlad; 10-09-2012 at 10:46 AM.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:26 PM   #4452
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You have to swap the wires for the temp sensor manually if using the inbuilt charge temp sensor on a stock ECU.

My own car uses a sperate charge temp sensor mounted in the intercooler, the one fitted in the plenum heat soaks far too much to be of any real benefit acuracy wise. My MAF intake temp wire is cut and the sensor in the intercooler replaces it.

V8 pistons are forged, i've built an engine myself using them.

For clarity, the bugeye is a V7, the early blobeye(MY03/04) is V8, the widetrack blobeye(MY05) is V9, the hawkeye(MY06) is V10. The V9 Blobey and V10 Hawkeye mechanically are very similar, with both having widetrack rear suspension and 114.3mm PCD hubs, 8x17 wheels etc.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:44 PM   #4453
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Version 8 JDM pistons are not forged. They are hypercast. Version 7 JDM used forged.

THe intake temp sensor on the intake manifold was for the water spray. It was not used for mapping tables in the ecu. The sensor at the MAF sensor is used for that purpose.

Wiring up the sensor at the manifold in place of the maf sensor sensor is counter productive unless you are using Speed density ECU. Running MAF and not having the Temp readings of the incomming air is a serious deficit to mapping the car properly.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:46 PM   #4454
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Transmition wise the MY05 V9 widetrack Blobeye is the one to have, it was the last to have a 66/33 torque split, but also has all the sensor inputs from steering position and yaw, using a helical front LSD and Plated rear LSD.

The MY03/04 V8 Blobeye has the earlier DCCD-A which has no yaw or steering input, but does use 66/33.

The MY06 V10 Hawkeye has the later spec DCCD-A but the torque split is 59/41, it uses a helical front and plated rear diff.

The MY07 (god knows what you guys call that) Hawkeye has the later spec DCCD-A with a 59/41 torque split, helical front and torsen rear diff.

MY05 Blobeye MY04 Blobeye

Rear bodywork width 1738mm 1725mm
Wheelbase 2540mm 2525mm
Rear track 1515mm 1505mm
Front body overhang 920mm 930mm
Rear body overhang 955mm 960mm
Steering wheel to rear bulkhead 1502mm 1510mm
Steering wheel to brake pedal 660mm 628mm
Conrod weight 578g 549g
Flywheel weight 8284g 8439g
Air charge temp sensor in plenum Fitted Not Fitted
Minimum Homologated weight 1271kg 1293kg
Min distance hub to wheel arch F333mm R277mm F350mm R315mm
Head/Bore Comb chamber min vol 67.8cm3 66.6cm3
Head Combustion chamber min vol 48.5cm3 48.5cm3
Max compression ratio 8.3:1 8.5:1
Downpipe flange diameter 130x82mm 110x64mm
Front LSD Helical Suretrack
Rear LSD Plated Plated
Front ARB 20mm 19mm
Wheel size 17x8 17x7.5

MY05 Spec C additional homologations
Alloy boot lid Added
Roof Vent Added
Boot IC water tank Added
Min weight Min 1234kg
Oil capacity Decrease to 5.3L
Fuel tank capacity 51.5L
Engine oil cooler oil/air
Gearbox oil cooler oil/air
Fuel pump baffle chamber Added
Rear wiper Deleted

No Spec C homologation was made for the MY04, also the MY04 papers are incorrect in that they list the spec for a single scroll turbo, but show the pictures for a twin scroll turbo.

MY05 Blobeye MY06 Hawkeye

Engine size 1994.3cc 1997.8cc
Overall length 4415mm 4465mm
Front body overhang 920mm 975mm
Rear body overhang 955mm 950mm
Steering wheel to rear bulkhead 1502mm 1660mm
Steering wheel to brake pedal 660mm 640mm
Bore 92.0mm 92.02mm
Stroke 75.0mm 75.1mm
Gearbox drop gear ratio 1:1 1.1:1
Gearbox drop gear teeth 31:31 33:30
Rear diff ratio 10:39 11:39
Rear bootlid material steel aluminium
Bonnet scoop aperture height 90mm 60mm
Minimum Homologated weight 1271kg 1345kg
Min distance hub to wheel arch F333mm R277mm F340mm R310mm
Head/Bore Comb chamber min vol 67.8cm3 67.1cm3
Head Combustion chamber min vol 48.5cm3 48.5cm3
Max compression ratio 8.3:1 8.4:1
Lubrication system total capacity 5.5L 5.0L
Fuel Pump Unisia JECS 3.75l/min Hitachi 3.75l/min
Alternator 900Watts 1080Watts
Torque split range Front 35%-50% 41%-50%
Torque split range Rear 65%-50% 59%-50%
Front LSD Helical Helical
Rear LSD Plated Plated

Spec C additional homologations
Alloy boot lid Added As STi
Roof Vent Added Added
Boot IC water tank Added Added
Min weight Min 1234kg Min 1300kg
Oil capacity Decrease to 5.3L Increase to 5.3L
Fuel tank capacity 51.5L 51.5L and 61.5L
Engine oil cooler oil/air oil/air
Gearbox oil cooler oil/air oil/air
Fuel pump baffle chamber Added Added
Rear wiper Deleted Deleted

GroupN spec opened up in 2006 for more modifications using none OEM parts to allow 5 speed gear kit, 19mm and 21mm ARB’s, Front plated LSD, larger brakes, Servo delete, hydraulic handbrake etc….
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:49 PM   #4455
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Two things:

Please take a look at the Sponaugle list, it's purely factual, based only on part numbers, let's see how that lines up with your information.

This is not to challenge your statement, it's just so we can clarify this as much as possible.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hlight=bonanza

The second thing is that here we have chosen to name the GRB Sti as a V10, maybe because we're dealing more with JDM engines more than with JDM complete cars.
Engine-wise, the hawkeye Sti did not bing that much in an EJ207.

I still think that you are calling the V8 forged pistons in a car that we may call a V7.
Which revision are you refering to with V8? Rev C?

The part number for pistons changes in 2003. The bodystyle changes in 2003 as well.

I'm going to try to post the cutoff date between the two part numbers, which clearly signal the beginning of hyper pistons.

So here it is: These are going to all be "category A" pistons, so we can compare apples to apples:

12006AB430 for rev A and rev B

rev B ends on 10/31/2002

12006AC430 for rev C, D, E, F

rev C begins on 09/01/2002

There is always an overlap in dates with Subaru.

The info is right from Subaru part numbers which are correct, directly from software.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:54 PM   #4456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Turner View Post
Version 8 JDM pistons are not forged. They are hypercast. Version 7 JDM used forged.

THe intake temp sensor on the intake manifold was for the water spray. It was not used for mapping tables in the ecu. The sensor at the MAF sensor is used for that purpose.

Wiring up the sensor at the manifold in place of the maf sensor sensor is counter productive unless you are using Speed density ECU. Running MAF and not having the Temp readings of the incomming air is a serious deficit to mapping the car properly.
V8 (MY03/MY04) are forged on the UK Spec engine. V8 (MY03/MY04) are hypercas on the JDM spec engine.
Intake plenum sensor isnt active on the V9 ECU as stock.

Last edited by johnfelstead; 10-11-2012 at 06:18 PM. Reason: ;)
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:11 PM   #4457
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I have to say, about the autospray, that I can log in digital data, in Ecutek delta dash the activation of the spray relay.

I have the spray table set for 80F and on the log, you can see how the intake temperature IS over 80 when it sprays and how it does not activate when the intake temperature is under 80F.

I will try to disconnect the plenum sensor and see if it still sprays over 80 and not spray under 80.
I will then load the group N, disconnect the plenum sensor and see if I get 00F for logged intake temperature (this is if my theory is right), when the autowash button is pressed and temperature reading when the button is not pressed.
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:14 PM   #4458
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Chassis model codes and what we in Europe and in Japan call the cars in brackets, all were homologated based on model code, the last Hawkeye was never FIA Homologated.

A (Bugeye V7 MY01)
2000.08-2001.08
Impreza WRX NB
GDAA4CD
GDAA4CT
Impreza WRX STi
GDBA4EH
Impreza WRX STi type RA
GDBA4DH
Impreza WRX STi wagon
GGBA5EH
B (Bugeye V7 MY02)
2001.09-2002.10
Impreza WRX NB
GDAB4CD
GDAB4CT
Impreza WRX NB-R
GDAB4HT
GDAB4HT
Impreza WRX STi
GDBB4EH
Impreza WRX STi type RA Spec C
GDBB4FH
Impreza WRX STi Prodrive
GDBB4KH
Impreza WRX STi LIMITED
GDBB4JH
Impreza WRX S202 STi version
GDBB4FH
Impreza STi wagon
GGBB5EH
C (blobeye V8 MY03)
2002.11-2003.08
Impreza WRX
GDAC48D
GDAC48T
Impreza WRX STi
GDBC4EH
Impreza WRX STi spec C
GDBC4FH
Impreza WRX Spec C Limited
GDBC4FH
Impreza WRX wagon
GGAC58D
GGAC58T
D (blobeye V8 MY04)
2003.09-2004.05
Impreza WRX
GDAD48D
GDAD48T
Impreza WRX 2003 V-limited
GDAD4HD
Impreza WRX STi
GDBD4EH
Impreza WRX STi Spec C
GDBD4FH
Impreza WRX STi 2003 V-limited
GDBD4JH
Imperza WRX wagon
GGAD58D
GGAD58T
E (Widetrack Blobeye V9 MY05)
2004.06-2005.05
Impreza WRX
GDAE48D
GDAE48T
Impreza WRX WR-Limited 2004
GDAE4HD
GDAE4HT
Imperza WRX STi
GDBE4EH
Imperza S203 STi version
GDBE4EH
Impreza WRX STi Spec C
GDBE4FH
Impreza WRX STi Spec C WR-Limited 2004
GDBE4FH
Impreza WRX STi Spec C type RA
GDBE4FH
Impreza WRX wagon
GGAE58D
GGAE58T
F (Hawkeye V10 MY06)
2005.06-2006.05
Impreza WRX
GDAF48D
GDAF48T
Impreza WRX WR-Limited 2005
GDAF48D
GDAF48T
Impreza WRX STi
GDBF4EH
Impreza WRX STi Spec C
GDBF4FH
Impreza WRX STi Spec C type RA 2005
GDBF4FH
Impreza WRX S204
GDBF4KH
Imperza WRX wagon
GGAF58D
GGAF58T
G (Hawkeye MY07)
2006.06-2007.05
Impreza WRX
GDAG48D
GDAG48T
Impreza WRX STi
GDBG4EH
Impreza WRX STi A-Line
GDBG4KH
Impreza WRX STi Spec C
GDBG4FH
Impreza WRX STi Spec C type RA-R
GDBG4LH
Impreza WRX wagon
GGAG58D
GGAG58T
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:27 PM   #4459
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I'm sorry, but I have to say that V8 forged is unlikely.

Here is a link to a photo of part number 12006AC430, which is the piston for V8-9
http://www.rallyandracing.biz/index....za-STI-piston&

Here is a side-by-side cast-forged between 207 and 257.

http://www.airpowersystems.com/us_sp...ns/pistons.htm

You can see that the cast pistons allow for cast patterns visible on the sides by the wrist pin bore, while the forged are smooth.

The 430 piston has patterns on the side, it is not forged.
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:46 PM   #4460
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You sir have been owned!! No but nice info!
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:52 PM   #4461
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hi all i just intalled a ej207 v7 with aliot of upgrades in my bugeye long story short it tries to start but wont i deff have fuel it was getting dark so i couldnt mess with it to much last night any suggestions and for the record I'm not new to swapping engines building them but wasnt sure if anyone ran into this prob and what was the solution any suggestions are greatly appreciated thanks in advance
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:00 PM   #4462
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The correct naming convention for the models that the manufacturer uses does not tie up with what you guys in the USA have decided to use.

So if you want to eliminate any issues, just drop the V* number system, as that is not recognised by Subaru, and stick with the model code numbers.

Last edited by johnfelstead; 10-11-2012 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:21 PM   #4463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnfelstead View Post
Hardly, had you bothered to look at the model listing i put up above, you would see where the issue here lies and why using V* numbers completely cocks things up with newage cars.

The correct naming convention for the models that the manufacturer uses does not tie up with what you guys in the USA have decided to use.

To clear things up.

These have forged pistons

C (blobeye V8 MY03)
2002.11-2003.08
Impreza WRX STi
GDBC4EH
Impreza WRX STi spec C
GDBC4FH
Impreza WRX Spec C Limited
GDBC4FH

These have hypercast pistons

D (blobeye V8 MY04)
2003.09-2004.05
Impreza WRX STi
GDBD4EH
Impreza WRX STi Spec C
GDBD4FH
Impreza WRX STi 2003 V-limited
GDBD4JH

Both types are known as V8 cars.

So if you want to eliminate any issues, just drop the V* number system, as that is not recognised by Subaru, and stick with the model code numbers.
How do I go about figuring out which year mine is? Is there a reference here somewhere of the engine code numbers and their corresponding year?


The sticker on the timing belt cover above the oil filter is:

EJ207DW5CR-136 764632 CE10
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:26 PM   #4464
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I guess I was incorrect.

Last edited by 25rsti; 10-09-2012 at 05:28 PM. Reason: wrong info
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:27 PM   #4465
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Simon, Yours is Hypercast.

MY96 STi 2 - EJ20GDW5PR
(change to Phase 1.5 - NO reset of year field)
MY97 STi 3 - EJ20KDW6PR
MY98 STi 4 - EJ20KDW7PR
(change to Phase 2 - reset of year field)
MY99 STi 5 - EJ207DW1PR
MY00 STi 6 - EJ207DW2PR
(change to New Age Bug Eye, NO reset of year field)
MY01 STi 7 - EJ207DW3CR (Forged)
MY02 STi 7 - EJ207DW4CR (Forged)
(change to Blob Eye / twin scroll, NO reset of year field)
MY03 STi 8 - EJ207DW5CR (Hypercast)
MY04 STi 8 - EJ207DW6CR (Hypercast)
MY05 STi 9 - EJ207DW7CR (Hypercast+Nitrided cross drilled crank)
(change to Hawk Eye, NO reset of year field)
MY06 STi 10 - EJ207DG8CR
MY07 STi 10 - EJ207DG9LE

Last edited by johnfelstead; 10-09-2012 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:31 PM   #4466
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According to your stats I have a V10 (if that's what us americans call it)
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:34 PM   #4467
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mixed up users

Last edited by johnfelstead; 10-09-2012 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:41 PM   #4468
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This is my code.

Does the -03F mean anything?
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:46 PM   #4469
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Sorry, i thought you were simon as you didnt give a number.

Yes, thats an MY06 STi10 engine from the first Hawkeye.
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:00 PM   #4470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnfelstead View Post
Simon, Yours is Forged.

(change to Blob Eye / twin scroll, NO reset of year field)
MY03 STi 8 - EJ207DW5CR (Forged)

What's the part # for the forged pistons in the EJ207DW5CR motor?
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:49 PM   #4471
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Oh, It's a JDM STI?
Pretty close.

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Quote:
MY05 STi 9 - EJ207DW7CR (Hypercast+Nitrided cross drilled crank)
If the above is true I am def happy with that. I paid for a "v8" but received the above coded motor.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:53 PM   #4472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierysun View Post
What's the part # for the forged pistons in the EJ207DW5CR motor?
I'm curious as well.

If I'm following johnfelstead correctly, the 2003 Spec-C "V8" should have forged pistons?

My engine code should be a 2003 Spec-C with EJ207DW5ER...

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Old 10-09-2012, 08:43 PM   #4473
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Wow this is all interesting news! So by looking at my numbers I have a forged car? But not a spec c right? Spec c would be an ER code.

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Old 10-09-2012, 08:47 PM   #4474
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don't get hyped kids, It's still a subaru, and WILL blow on you eventually
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:48 PM   #4475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluiten

I'm curious as well.

If I'm following johnfelstead correctly, the 2003 Spec-C "V8" should have forged pistons?

My engine code should be a 2003 Spec-C with EJ207DW5ER...
The last STi to have forged pistons was the v7.

EDIT: decided to read further back........ I'm curious to see if anyone can confirm these things.

Last edited by LIQUIDSK8S; 10-09-2012 at 08:54 PM.
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