Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday July 29, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-20-2012, 10:04 PM   #4676
amroof
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 211224
Join Date: May 2009
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Aurora, CO
Vehicle:
2005 Mystical
UniCorn FXTi

Default

When I get some time ill try and get a sound clip. You will love the sound of the catless dp. And my car sounds different than the other 207s in here cause the 32 bit. You can actually hear my avcs kicking on decel.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
amroof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 10:12 PM   #4677
25rsti
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 166324
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Haverhill, MA
Vehicle:
3 turbos &n NA
@DBlockSTi

Default

Does it really make that much of a difference? I have a v9 but with v7 ecu.
25rsti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 10:53 PM   #4678
WhiteBgeye02
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 224785
Join Date: Sep 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: neenah
Vehicle:
2005 wrx-jdm207
i went black...

Default

not really^ only a few changes and its got newer maps for the newer intake setup. it can all be tuned or copied over if you want certain things from the stock rom maps provided on romraider forums. just got to search. if you search hard enough you can find the S cars stock roms. some nice changes to avcs and timing! but then again i use my own timing curve that is smoother than a babies bottom!

i agree about all the problems that are so simple and painful to have to read. most of it should be in the basic part of the ej20 section since its not engine specific but rather a easy problem and search function in there could clear up. kinda why i flipped out last week w/ something so stupid. 80 pages of crap since i put my engine in feb. which btw only took me 4 days to do myself. engine arrived monday after. had it in thursday up and running w/ avcs wiring harness i make installed as well. 3 hours a day after class.. plus a few hours on the lap top tuning. really should not be as hard as ppl make it but then again some ppl have never turned a wrench this far into a car......

if anyone in the Wisconsin area wants a tune i can hook you up on a wrx ecu or jdm ecu. im pretty cheap too. just no real dyno numbers. then again there is always the virtual dyno numbers.
WhiteBgeye02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 11:06 PM   #4679
todeswalzer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 191495
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Lowell MA
Vehicle:
'05 WRB GTX3071R
JDM V8 EJ207 USDM 6MT

Default

Honestly im one of those people putting too much into this thread. I'm just so annoyed with where I am with my car and this is the best place to put it. Sorry. This thread describes where I am so hopefully I'll add something to someones research but most of my posts are coming me being annoyed with where I am with things. My b.
todeswalzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 12:58 AM   #4680
amroof
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 211224
Join Date: May 2009
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Aurora, CO
Vehicle:
2005 Mystical
UniCorn FXTi

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteBgeye02 View Post
not really^ only a few changes and its got newer maps for the newer intake setup. it can all be tuned or copied over if you want certain things from the stock rom maps provided on romraider forums. just got to search. if you search hard enough you can find the S cars stock roms. some nice changes to avcs and timing! but then again i use my own timing curve that is smoother than a babies bottom!

It Does make a difference when you are running a factory usdm forester 32 bit ecu on a v9 engine that was meant for a 16 bit. I have more random tables and emissions **** built into my ecu. So I get the weird rolling idle issue when I down shift or let off. I am also on a Dbw ecu so I get some odd noises hear and there. but all in all it is amazing and a blast to drive
amroof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 11:50 AM   #4681
lukeskywrx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 59837
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Arizona
Vehicle:
2004 Spec-C Type RA
What MAF? -Speed Density!

Default

You have taller cams as well, pry exaggerates any odd avcs sounds
lukeskywrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 12:32 PM   #4682
amroof
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 211224
Join Date: May 2009
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Aurora, CO
Vehicle:
2005 Mystical
UniCorn FXTi

Default

Yea I was thinking about that after I posted. Somebody else needs to get his swap done to see if his car does it too!
amroof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 02:24 PM   #4683
Torquey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 175334
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Dallas, TX
Vehicle:
2003 Impreza WRX
JDM v8 EJ207 WRB

Default

I just extracted the stock AVCS harness that came with my swap, but won't be needing it (already bought one before hand). If any of you are interested in a factory uncut AVCS harness... I listed it here in the classifieds
Torquey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 08:24 PM   #4684
blindjoe
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 293355
Join Date: Sep 2011
Default

I am currently trying to get my v8 into the car. Its an 02 and im using the stock 5 spd transmission.

I can't get the turbo to clear one of the ribs on the transmission when trying to get the two to mate. Do I need to take the turbo off or is there something I am missing on getting the engine to attach to to the car?
blindjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 08:25 PM   #4685
simon021
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 157532
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Iowa
Vehicle:
2002 MY03 EJ207 E85
Dom 1.5XTR Twinscroll!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blindjoe View Post
I am currently trying to get my v8 into the car. Its an 02 and im using the stock 5 spd transmission.

I can't get the turbo to clear one of the ribs on the transmission when trying to get the two to mate. Do I need to take the turbo off or is there something I am missing on getting the engine to attach to to the car?
I was able to get it in there with the turbo. It took some pushing and pulling and prybaring but I didnt have to take anything off.
simon021 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 08:35 PM   #4686
25rsti
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 166324
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Haverhill, MA
Vehicle:
3 turbos &n NA
@DBlockSTi

Default

I thought the same thing at first but was able to just wiggle and finagle it.
25rsti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 08:50 PM   #4687
blindjoe
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 293355
Join Date: Sep 2011
Default

Hmm. I guess I need to get down there and try again. I did have one of the long studs get bent, so I replaced it with one from the old motor and I hoped that would give me clearance, but it didn't quite give me enough.
I also have one dowel stuck in the old motor. hopefully I don't need it that much.
blindjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 09:58 PM   #4688
JRsleeper
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 94791
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: North Branford, CT
Vehicle:
2002 WRX wagon WRB
Ver 8 EJ207 4.44's

Default

The turbo to 5spd tranny clearance is a tight fit. I am able to leave the turbo bolted up during my installs.

I do not have the studs installed in the motor. I installed them after the motor is mated.

Just make sure you have the angle correct on the tranny and with the motor on your hoist.

With the correct angle it becomes real easy by yourself to get them close to mated, then a little wiggle and the turbo clears the tranny.
JRsleeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 10:05 PM   #4689
simon021
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 157532
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Iowa
Vehicle:
2002 MY03 EJ207 E85
Dom 1.5XTR Twinscroll!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRsleeper View Post
The turbo to 5spd tranny clearance is a tight fit. I am able to leave the turbo bolted up during my installs.

I do not have the studs installed in the motor. I installed them after the motor is mated.

Just make sure you have the angle correct on the tranny and with the motor on your hoist.

With the correct angle it becomes real easy by yourself to get them close to mated, then a little wiggle and the turbo clears the tranny.
Thats exactly how it went for me. I was by myself and pretty much got them aligned as best I could with the turbo up against the tranny, then gave it a big push and wiggle back and forth and it popped up over that rib on the tranny and it was home free from there.
simon021 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 11:55 AM   #4690
WhiteBgeye02
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 224785
Join Date: Sep 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: neenah
Vehicle:
2005 wrx-jdm207
i went black...

Default

i know its the wrong place but a lot of you guys want this option for your cars.
got a blouch dom2.5xtr w/ only 10 min of idle time running. never drove it down the road. off a friends car that couldnt not afford to keep the parts so i bought the parts off him. its single scroll. basically a brand new turbo! 10cm hotside

Also have a blouch dom1.5xtr single scroll. has 10k miles. very clean as well. shaft play on it is the same as the dom2.5 i have above w/ no miles so its good to go! if you want twinscroll on this you can get the TS exh housing from blouch for future use!

both flow 49lb/min so good for around 400whp. dual BB center sections. liquid cooler w/ sti oil feed lines! have a 2011 sti tmic to go with either of them and brand new in box ID1000 topfeeds w/ the same 10 min of idling time.

i just dont want to do the build before winter any more and one of the turbo's has got to go. preferably the 2.5xtr.
WhiteBgeye02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 11:58 AM   #4691
Clark Turner
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 178047
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: AZ
Vehicle:
02 WRX STI Spec C
Black

Default

If you know its the wrong place why post for sale items in the 207 thread and clog it up even more then it already is??

C
Clark Turner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 12:45 PM   #4692
simon021
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 157532
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Iowa
Vehicle:
2002 MY03 EJ207 E85
Dom 1.5XTR Twinscroll!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Turner View Post
If you know its the wrong place why post for sale items in the 207 thread and clog it up even more then it already is??

C
Clark do you see any advantage to running the EJ207 on speed density with the carberry rom over the maf based fueling?

I have a pipe for my intercooler with a place for a maf sensor that would make for an easy relocation of the IAT sensor, putting it right before the throttle body. I originally bought it to do a blow through maf setup, but with all the advancements on the SD front, I have considered going that route.

I saw a post a year or two ago that you were not thrilled with the open source 16 bit speed density tuning yet. Has this opinion changed at all?

Do you see a benefit to running SD with a MY03 EJ207 w/vf37. I may end up picking up a larger twin scroll turbo in the future if that makes a difference.

I'm wondering if SD tuning would possibly improve any of the "cons" of runing E85 in colder climates, like extremely poor cold start idle, and idle hunting during warm up.
simon021 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 07:46 PM   #4693
lukeskywrx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 59837
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Arizona
Vehicle:
2004 Spec-C Type RA
What MAF? -Speed Density!

Default

I have been running the SD rom on my car for 8 months as a daily driver on the 207(and a year before that on the 205), no startup issues with e85 or idle hunting on warmup. As it gets colder I will have to tweak the cranking tables but it is fine now in AZ. Fueling is spot on and car makes great power while being very smooth on or off boost. It solves several little drivability issues I find really irritating on MAF cars, not to mention it gives you all the other fun features.

I have found most of the startup issues with e85, particularly the idle hunting on warmup, either on MAF or SD is due to bad latency settings, basically bad interpolation of manufacturer data or plain wrong absolute values.

Last edited by lukeskywrx; 10-22-2012 at 07:53 PM.
lukeskywrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 09:27 AM   #4694
simon021
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 157532
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Iowa
Vehicle:
2002 MY03 EJ207 E85
Dom 1.5XTR Twinscroll!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeskywrx View Post
I have been running the SD rom on my car for 8 months as a daily driver on the 207(and a year before that on the 205), no startup issues with e85 or idle hunting on warmup. As it gets colder I will have to tweak the cranking tables but it is fine now in AZ. Fueling is spot on and car makes great power while being very smooth on or off boost. It solves several little drivability issues I find really irritating on MAF cars, not to mention it gives you all the other fun features.

I have found most of the startup issues with e85, particularly the idle hunting on warmup, either on MAF or SD is due to bad latency settings, basically bad interpolation of manufacturer data or plain wrong absolute values.
If you are in AZ then your "cold start" is on a completely different planet than ours in the midwest.

I'm talking coolant temps under 30 or 40. the ARF trims swing back and forth back and forth till the coolant gets up around 100-120 and it smooths out.

I've had the same idle hunting on warmup with very cold coolant through 3 different tuners over the last 3 or 4 years, so I'd like to think they dont all have the same wrong latency settings. I'm using DW850s, so it's not like they are some obscure injectors or anything.

I'm not saying thats not it, I would actually be thrilled if you were right about that.

Which injectors are you using?
simon021 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 11:07 AM   #4695
lukeskywrx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 59837
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Arizona
Vehicle:
2004 Spec-C Type RA
What MAF? -Speed Density!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by simon021 View Post
If you are in AZ then your "cold start" is on a completely different planet than ours in the midwest.

I'm talking coolant temps under 30 or 40. the ARF trims swing back and forth back and forth till the coolant gets up around 100-120 and it smooths out.

I've had the same idle hunting on warmup with very cold coolant through 3 different tuners over the last 3 or 4 years, so I'd like to think they dont all have the same wrong latency settings. I'm using DW850s, so it's not like they are some obscure injectors or anything.

I'm not saying thats not it, I would actually be thrilled if you were right about that.

Which injectors are you using?
Contrary to what many people think it does actually get cold in the desert and we do have cold starts in the 30s and 40s in the winter, just not all winter. I have experienced the problem you are talking about and it drove me crazy so I worked to stop it. The difference between good latency and bad can be 2-10% with one hunting on startup and the other stable at the warmup RPM. The startup/warmup routines in the ECU are all based on injector pulse width and additive fueling offsets so your latency really effects how much fuel is getting used.

E85 gets even trickier because of the poor low temperature volatility of ethanol below about 70F. When you design your startup routine you have to provide enough gas to do all the starting and initial warmup till the engine gets hot enough to vaporize ethanol right around the 100F range you noted. Winter blend e70 helps the startup problem but now you have to know what your fuel is and what map you are running.

I run ID 1000s, running the manufacturer latency I get horrible warmup idle hunting, increase them by 5% and it all goes away and the car is much smoother to drive. Some day I will build my own injector test bench and really get to the bottom of this.
lukeskywrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 11:13 AM   #4696
navydub
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 242585
Join Date: Mar 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Vehicle:
2005 Saabaru
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Rodman View Post
That would get me quite upset. Contact japandomesticmotors.com they may have a ecu for you.

I gave them a call and no luck

Jspecauto/JDMracingmotors said they don't have one for me either. Checked Ebay and made a few calls, but am coming up empty handed. Short of someone on the forums having one, not sure where to go from here
navydub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 11:47 AM   #4697
simon021
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 157532
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Iowa
Vehicle:
2002 MY03 EJ207 E85
Dom 1.5XTR Twinscroll!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeskywrx

Contrary to what many people think it does actually get cold in the desert and we do have cold starts in the 30s and 40s in the winter, just not all winter. I have experienced the problem you are talking about and it drove me crazy so I worked to stop it. The difference between good latency and bad can be 2-10% with one hunting on startup and the other stable at the warmup RPM. The startup/warmup routines in the ECU are all based on injector pulse width and additive fueling offsets so your latency really effects how much fuel is getting used.

E85 gets even trickier because of the poor low temperature volatility of ethanol below about 70F. When you design your startup routine you have to provide enough gas to do all the starting and initial warmup till the engine gets hot enough to vaporize ethanol right around the 100F range you noted. Winter blend e70 helps the startup problem but now you have to know what your fuel is and what map you are running.

I run ID 1000s, running the manufacturer latency I get horrible warmup idle hunting, increase them by 5% and it all goes away and the car is much smoother to drive. Some day I will build my own injector test bench and really get to the bottom of this.
My apologies. I didn't realize it gets that cold there. That's all very interesting. So you are saying even on a cold motor under 40 your car cranks up starts up and idles on target with no hunting at all?

I think I've been looking in the wrong place all along. I kept thinking something was happening inside the maps warmup routine around 100 that changed and smoothed things out. When really maybe it's just the fuel itself naturally vaporizing properly around those temps.

Wow. Thanks for the insight. So to start testing your theory how would you recommend I proceed? Try bumping up the latency like 2% across the board each morning and see if it improves?
simon021 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 12:45 PM   #4698
WhiteBgeye02
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 224785
Join Date: Sep 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: neenah
Vehicle:
2005 wrx-jdm207
i went black...

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by navydub View Post
I gave them a call and no luck

Jspecauto/JDMracingmotors said they don't have one for me either. Checked Ebay and made a few calls, but am coming up empty handed. Short of someone on the forums having one, not sure where to go from here
well you should call the vendor back and say hey, find me a v7 or v8 ecu that will work otherwise ill start telling ppl not to buy from you on the forums. its not a situation anyone on here would want to be in anyways.


i have tuned one car thus far on SD. its a ej257 w/ a BW 600whp turbo. did it on pump, then race, and now e85. i only have problems w/ ****ty idle because the injectors are 1600's from five o motorsports. i fixed it by choosing the section in the primary OL tables to a arf slightly lower than 14.7 and then set min OL arf to 14.7 so its always in OL while idling. I just then took some fuel out of the SD table in that section to get the afr back up around 15.0. also have fuel learning values set to zero so it cant do what it wants in closed look. its basically a race car around 550whp right now so fuel mileage is not the best but i have ran my maf based ej207 around 15.3 afr crusing/idle and it runs very smooth. why burn fuel that isnt needed.

i relocated a iat to my throttle body in a tricky location between the map and iacv flat part and round part meet. its tight in there so when it idles the iat sensor has air flowing right by it and into the controler and then when the throttle opens the butterfly swings away from it and air goes zipping by it. its the stock iat sensor from a old maf i had and it seems to work pretty good. i would do the blow through trick and use just the iat if i didnt love my process west tmic so much. got it a month ago for a steal w/ splitter so wont be making a v mount kit anymore. spring my car will be full time SD.

right now its only SD on the weekend a few times when i tinkered with the fueling tables and timing compared to manifold pressure rather than engine load. for someone who has a turbo that does not taper the lines on the 3D timing map need to be redone because it doesnt follow the loop like it does with engine load increase and then decrease on load based maf roms. still fun stuff!
WhiteBgeye02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 01:01 PM   #4699
PHruska
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 214589
Join Date: Jun 2009
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Berkeley CA/bozeman MT
Vehicle:
2002 wrx wagon
PSM

Default

So im looking at getting an oil press gauge and have the JDM sandwich adapter on there already. i searched and only had one person say they thought it was 1/8npt. can anyone verify so i dont have to wait on the correct one if it doesnt fit?
PHruska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 01:19 PM   #4700
todeswalzer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 191495
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Lowell MA
Vehicle:
'05 WRB GTX3071R
JDM V8 EJ207 USDM 6MT

Default

The first engine I got had one in it. I no longer have it but.....Its definitely bigger than 1/8 npt


Try going to a local hardware store or even auto zone and get a brass 1/4" npt/hose barb fitting. They're like $2 and will give you piece of mind


Or try threading some 6mm/8mm bolts in
todeswalzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ej207 owner wants opinions adbramsay Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 2 02-26-2011 07:29 PM
Ej207 V6 AndrewFD3 Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 10 06-03-2010 04:53 PM
JDM Sti EJ207 V9 crank 75mm or billet crank (K1, Manley) VENDORS ??? L'frise Private 'Wanted' Classifieds 7 06-03-2010 09:24 AM
08 ej207 JDM dual AVCS heads on a built v7 ej207 icev7 Built Motor Discussion 17 02-21-2010 03:21 PM
Ver 8 EJ207 Owners Check In spoolinsuby Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 21 10-17-2005 01:56 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.