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Old 12-03-2012, 10:26 PM   #5026
Computersare8ad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHruska View Post
just posting this new development because i now have even more of a headache and any reccomendations would be helpful.
AVCS on left side reading 0, right side was reading in the 50s.
swap solenoids, left side reads, right side doesnt.
check wiring at ecu, dont move any pins, issue moves back to reading 0 on left side.
so now im guessing its a wiring issue not a bad solenoid. dont have a damn clue though and am starting to get reallllly stressed out about it haha. this is the last thing keeping me from finishing my tune.
Perhaps start by going through the black, grey, and brown connectors and making sure the wires are all seating well. Then do the same for the plugs at the ecu.

I know my brown connector on the motor harness I had a couple pins loose from when they disconnected them from the car they came out.
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Old 12-04-2012, 02:07 PM   #5027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHruska View Post
just posting this new development because i now have even more of a headache and any reccomendations would be helpful.
AVCS on left side reading 0, right side was reading in the 50s.
swap solenoids, left side reads, right side doesnt.
check wiring at ecu, dont move any pins, issue moves back to reading 0 on left side.
so now im guessing its a wiring issue not a bad solenoid. dont have a damn clue though and am starting to get reallllly stressed out about it haha. this is the last thing keeping me from finishing my tune.
Not sure what specs you are using on your engine/ecu etc, but there are significant changes in cam spec and sensor spec between some of the AVCS engines. You may find the information on this thread useful, it's on a forum that most of the top UK subaru tuners use. http://bbs.22b.com/forums/showthread...highlight=avcs
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Old 12-04-2012, 02:30 PM   #5028
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Those in tank filters are hideous things.
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:11 PM   #5029
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Originally Posted by johnfelstead View Post
Those in tank filters are hideous things.
This is the truth. I've seen more than a couple simply plug up so tight the car dies. I've seen them split open and rob the system of pressure as well, causing the the car to run poorly. I'm not clear why Subaru switched to this in-tank setup, but I always thought it might have to do with the emissions pumps on the 06+ 32bit cars, but I don't think so after looking at the relatively compact version of that system in the 07+ cars. Probably cost.

I'm relocating mine to the bay with my EJ207 swap.
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:40 PM   #5030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnfelstead View Post
Not sure what specs you are using on your engine/ecu etc, but there are significant changes in cam spec and sensor spec between some of the AVCS engines. You may find the information on this thread useful, it's on a forum that most of the top UK subaru tuners use. http://bbs.22b.com/forums/showthread...highlight=avcs
That is a good thread. I just made a post over there that might help that member with his swap.
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:48 PM   #5031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHruska View Post
just posting this new development because i now have even more of a headache and any reccomendations would be helpful.
AVCS on left side reading 0, right side was reading in the 50s.
swap solenoids, left side reads, right side doesnt.
check wiring at ecu, dont move any pins, issue moves back to reading 0 on left side.
so now im guessing its a wiring issue not a bad solenoid. dont have a damn clue though and am starting to get reallllly stressed out about it haha. this is the last thing keeping me from finishing my tune.
My first guess is you have the wires reversed in polarity on the connectors plugged into the rear AVCS sensor; reversing the pins on those will make it read silly high. Pull the connector to the rear cam sensor that is reading 50, de-pin the connector (carefully), and swap the pins around. Then plug it in, and try it out.

I have seen this on 3 EJ207 swaps now with wiring where polarity is reversed on one or both of the connectors to the rear cam sensors.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:12 PM   #5032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RexFTW View Post
My first guess is you have the wires reversed in polarity on the connectors plugged into the rear AVCS sensor; reversing the pins on those will make it read silly high. Pull the connector to the rear cam sensor that is reading 50, de-pin the connector (carefully), and swap the pins around. Then plug it in, and try it out.

I have seen this on 3 EJ207 swaps now with wiring where polarity is reversed on one or both of the connectors to the rear cam sensors.
ill try that, but the issue switches sides, and thats whats weird. should i just swap the wires on the rear(drivers side) sensor then?

thanks for the info
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:18 PM   #5033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHruska View Post
ill try that, but the issue switches sides, and thats whats weird. should i just swap the wires on the rear(drivers side) sensor then?

thanks for the info
Oh I am sorry, I misread your post then. If the problem moves with when you swap solenoids, what makes you think it isn't a solenoid?

Edit: Re-reading and trying to understand your post to make sure I understand

So you swap solenoids, the problem follows, and then reverts of it's own accord?
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:28 PM   #5034
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Originally Posted by RexFTW View Post
Oh I am sorry, I misread your post then. If the problem moves with when you swap solenoids, what makes you think it isn't a solenoid?

Edit: Re-reading and trying to understand your post to make sure I understand

So you swap solenoids, the problem follows, and then reverts of it's own accord?
So it goes like this.
-logged the car, read 50+ on right, 0 on left.
-swap solenoids to see if its a bad solenoid. issue moves, now reads 50+ on left, 0 on right.
-go in to check wiring, since it was reading high anyway, check ECU plugs are seated. issue moves sides, reads left but not right now, without swapping solenoids.
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:18 PM   #5035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHruska View Post
So it goes like this.
-logged the car, read 50+ on right, 0 on left.
-swap solenoids to see if its a bad solenoid. issue moves, now reads 50+ on left, 0 on right.
-go in to check wiring, since it was reading high anyway, check ECU plugs are seated. issue moves sides, reads left but not right now, without swapping solenoids.
I would go over or re-do your wiring to the rear sensors. None of the 207s will go that high with AVCS so the solenoids literally can't make the car do that. IIRC the highest any of the 207s will run AVCS to is ~45*.

It wouldn't surprise me if you have a grounding issue or are not using shielded wire (that is grounded) from the rear avcs sensors.
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:53 PM   #5036
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That would be my first port of call too, wiring up a harness without good shielded sensor lines can cause havock.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:10 PM   #5037
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Originally Posted by RexFTW View Post
I would go over or re-do your wiring to the rear sensors. None of the 207s will go that high with AVCS so the solenoids literally can't make the car do that. IIRC the highest any of the 207s will run AVCS to is ~45*.

It wouldn't surprise me if you have a grounding issue or are not using shielded wire (that is grounded) from the rear avcs sensors.
My edit didnt post, but the shielded wires switched colors from ecu to harness, so i thought the wire was correct but it was off. were golden now. thanks a ton for the help.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:39 PM   #5038
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Originally Posted by PHruska View Post
My edit didnt post, but the shielded wires switched colors from ecu to harness, so i thought the wire was correct but it was off. were golden now. thanks a ton for the help.
No problem. Glad it is working for you now.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:39 PM   #5039
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every time there is a avcs problem it almost always comes down to wiring! keeping track of colors and wires makes all the difference!
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:23 AM   #5040
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any stories of V8/V9 engine failures? (from over revving or anything at all).

I wonder why the EJ207 hypereuretic pistons have been proven reliable at 400bhp+ but the USDM STI's hypereutectic pistons blow ringlands, what gives?

Last edited by 2JZ; 12-06-2012 at 04:13 PM. Reason: forgot to add USDM
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:13 AM   #5041
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Originally Posted by 2JZ View Post
any stories of V8/V9 engine failures? (from over revving or anything at all).

I wonder why the EJ207 hypereuretic pistons have been proven reliable at 400bhp+ but the STI's hypereutectic pistons blow ringlands, what gives?

I have a version 8 being rebuilt at EFI Logics as we speak. I was making 320 wheel on an hta68. It had a cyl #2 ring land failure. Possible cause was a lean condition that I was totally unaware of. Brought the car to do some logging two months after purchase and this was caught on the graph then compression test done. Best thing to keep in mind is these are junkyard motors and there really no guarantees. I have heard of one guy that opened his motor up for building purposes fresh from customs and he said it looked terrible inside. So it can happen. But also in my case it could have possibly been prevented assuming it was in fact the lean condition that caused it.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:29 AM   #5042
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The HTA is single scroll.
You converted this to single scroll then, using what? an OEM single scroll exhaust manifold? Who tuned it originally?
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:23 AM   #5043
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I blew 2 this summer alone


First was a shady tune

second was built too 'tight' for the abuse I was giving it.

Third is 6000 miles in. ( built ). I'm getting REAL good to disassemble and reassemble in a flash

And now, I need to take the left head off. sounds like it's about to puke.

edit :

Engine parts everywhere in my life now


Last edited by WRick; 12-06-2012 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:34 AM   #5044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad
The HTA is single scroll.
You converted this to single scroll then, using what? an OEM single scroll exhaust manifold? Who tuned it originally?
That car was tuned at EFI. I forget what manifold was on it.


On another note, my 207 lives! Friends and I did the swap yesterday and it runs. We just have to figure out the AVCS, get an exhaust adapter fabbed up, and figure out this odd buck it seems to be doing at around 2200rpm.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:58 AM   #5045
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Put this in the rumor bin till someone else can shed some light, but I have heard and suspect that the once piece v8+ intake manifold is matched to the flow of the twin scroll header. And also the standard manifold was designed and build specifically for the single scroll header.

People always want to think that subaru was being sloppy with the uneven flow characteristics of the two piece intake manifold but I suspect they tuned it to work with the uneven single scroll header.

Perhaps mixing and matching the one piece manifold and a single scroll system is not a good idea unless you tune on the safer side. These motors like to be tuned rich with lots of timing, but that is generally not the way people tune in Merica. I have found the 207 to be rather prone to knock if you start pulling too much timing.

Also so many people say they want the v7 motor because of the "forged" pistons and it is cheaper. V7 started in 01 in japan so you are looking at a minimum 12 year old motor that may have been sitting in junk yard overlooking the ocean. I bought the freshest v9 spec-C I could find and it was still lightly salted on the outside, I believe Kpluiten saw the same on his.

Last edited by lukeskywrx; 12-06-2012 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:10 AM   #5046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychoreo View Post
That car was tuned at EFI. I forget what manifold was on it.


On another note, my 207 lives! Friends and I did the swap yesterday and it runs. We just have to figure out the AVCS, get an exhaust adapter fabbed up, and figure out this odd buck it seems to be doing at around 2200rpm.
Yea buddy! Jeremy already has the wiring diagrams, now we just need to go to work on the car again next week.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:19 AM   #5047
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Yea buddy! Jeremy already has the wiring diagrams, now we just need to go to work on the car again next week.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:28 AM   #5048
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I thought I'd ask about the manifold because of some opinions I have.

First, the OEM ROM "coincidentally" has zero compensations, when the factory moves to V8 twinscroll. The USDM has compensations.
Second, there was a thread a while back, about #4 cyl piston failures. This brought up not only the compensations in the ROM, but also older intake manifolds flow tests.
The OEM manifold on a WRX and on a Sti, is flow biased.
Then it was brought up that the TGV then equalize the flow, but I found a test through the TGV's and it was still biased.

The JDM long runner manifold (that coincidentally appears at the same time with the twinscroll exhaust manifold), was never flow tested, to where the results were available on the board.

The problem with the unequal manifold car is that you would not know how one mod or another affects this bias. The worst is probably the crosspipe upgrade.
So once you get your tune done, you'd have to reballance your engine using something like an innovate TC-4.

On an equal length, twinscroll engine, one can make a better guess that it remains unbiased, with normal mods. It should still be checked.

The problem with checking it is that we have a tubular exhaust manifold and by the time you'd weld 4 bungs to it, it would be more or less ... swiss cheese. The odds of it cracking with 4 bungs welded are now higher.

Once you ballance it, you'd have no use for the 4 EGT's. And the 4 sensors, since they have to protrude into the runner half way in, would cause a turbulence that you would normally not have there.

So this would have to be something like a community tool, that one guy makes and then rents it out for everyone else to finish their tune.

One piece of information is that in the built engine section, they had a big thread with the longest lasting built engines (no refresh). As I was reading through it, the guy that I thought was most believable, out of the few that were exceeding 40-50K miles, had used a TC-4 to ballance his engine, with the compensations.

There was an argument made that actually 4 O2 sensors would be needed, I think 4 EGT's or CHT's would be close enough and certainly better than nothing.

I plan to address this issue with measuring CHT's, it's less intrusive.

Last edited by Vlad; 12-06-2012 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:46 AM   #5049
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I plan to address this by shoving water/meth down there.

Keeps everything nice and cool.

and for ballerism.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:46 AM   #5050
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I have tested AFR and EGT at all four cyls on both old and new style manifold and equal and unequal headers. on 2.0 and 2.5. Years and years go.. Probably around 2005 the first time and then 2008 again. You dont need four sensors. You can use an single afr bung and install EGT in that spot with a homade adapter per cyl.

A Free Multi position parallel port printer switch is a good way to go for this. They have Gold contacts inside and give you plenty of wires to switch the sensors for EGT. Then you can use a Multimeter (fluke) for the readout. The connectors are available at Rat shack and are cheap. You can wire this up in an hour.

You dont want to run the AFR sensors cold but you can leave the heater wires all on and then switch the signals. Or just switch the sensor out each time and then compile data later on.

The first set of tests where done because after importing and working on alot of V7 and V8 Spec C motors (real ones) I noticed that from the factory, they had a different spark plug installed into one cyl. All motors where leak down tested and the plugs had to come out to do the test before sale. Normal STI engines had the same plugs. I believe that as many as 75% of the "spec C' engines you see or people own, are in fact standard STI engines. I found that the ECU sticker was reproduced(faked) as early as 2005 to list the Spec C information and the front white sticker was faked very early on.

The fact of the matter is that the japanese retailers and auction houses simply made alot more money of that motor and ecu said Spec C.

When I use my current favorite intake manifold, the cosworth, I have to remap the per cyl comps.

I am thinking of doing this test again for the later model STI's as I would like to have the data. However, I have done extensive testing on the dyno with cyl comps for 2008 to 2012 STI and have seen the same patterns as the older cars. The plastic motor WRX's are a different story.

C
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