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Old 02-06-2013, 03:04 PM   #5601
simon021
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So is the OEM location below the throttle body a good location as long as you are using a good sensor? Would be nice if it was that easy.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:25 AM   #5602
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So is the OEM location below the throttle body a good location as long as you are using a good sensor? Would be nice if it was that easy.
Yes, for best results you want to be in the manifold itself. At lower airflow rates the manifold transfers a good amount of heat to the air so you end up with the air temps being warmer in the manifold then before the throttle body. You can see the temps rising at idle and very light crusing then they instantly drop once the throttle opens.

The change is enough if you put a sensor before the throttle you will get some strange fuel learning issues you cant ever seem to tune out and even some idle problems as the prior days learning is applied then next day when it is a different temperature out. Depending on your local climate this may or not be a problem, in the desert with its big temp swings I found it irritating when I ran a sensor in the IC pipe.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:18 AM   #5603
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I just noticed my V7 has that sensor. I have no clue what it's even hooked up to.

I think I'll take the oportunity to tap the GM IAT in there.

One thing I noticed :

I'm running factory PCV system ( no catch can or AOS ). I've considerable blow-by, and when I took that sensor out, since it's sitting upside down, it was drenched in oil. This will affect the sensor, and it will take more time for it to adjust to the right temp.

I need to run a catch can/aos
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:44 AM   #5604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeskywrx View Post
Yes, for best results you want to be in the manifold itself. At lower airflow rates the manifold transfers a good amount of heat to the air so you end up with the air temps being warmer in the manifold then before the throttle body. You can see the temps rising at idle and very light crusing then they instantly drop once the throttle opens.
Any concerns for air temp inaccuracy due to manifold heat soak? or are you running phenolic spacers or is there no concern at all after light cruising.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:55 AM   #5605
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Well, I have mine on the bottom part of the I/C, right before the TB.

If I park the car ( I have a dash display ) say for fueling, temps, even on the IC, can raise to 55/60 *C. If I drive off aggressively, it will drive like ****. Even in very hot weather, driving less than half a mile on the stock I/C brings it down to normal temps.

The sensor is really fast acting. You should expect the same results in the manif.

I mounted it in silicone, and noticed it did not heatsoak as much, vs metal on metal.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:58 AM   #5606
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Very interesting. Looks like I'll just pick up the sensor that I can swap right into the OEM manifold location under the TB. I have a perrin catch can system I never installed, so I suppose I'll go ahead and toss that on there at the same time.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:11 AM   #5607
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So how well does speed density work at the drag strip where you are sitting there heat soaking then just beating on it down the line. Seems like that would not be such a great situation...
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:17 AM   #5608
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So how well does speed density work at the drag strip where you are sitting there heat soaking then just beating on it down the line. Seems like that would not be such a great situation...
no idea man, never tried, but have always wondered haha

I guess one could set IAT comps to 0 for a minute. Worse that can happen is you run too rich with comps set to '0'

I'll push this further, I will set my iat comps much closer to '1' beyond 37*C ( 100 F ).

Chances are slim for the actual charge air to be hotter than that.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:18 AM   #5609
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Much better to be rich than lean, thats for sure
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:38 AM   #5610
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So how well does speed density work at the drag strip where you are sitting there heat soaking then just beating on it down the line. Seems like that would not be such a great situation...
It works great, Speed density was specifically designed to work for this situation since it knows the properties of the gasses in the manifold itself, temp and pressure. This same situation is happening regardless of what engine management technique you use, with SD we can account for it better. Remember it is not the sensor that is heat soaking(Mine and most commercial ones are thermally isolated and very low mass) it is the small volume of air in the manifold itself that is heating up.

The air that is in the manifold itself heats up, but as soon as you open the throttle you get a fresh blast of cool air. The larger volume of air is not heated by the manifold as it is moving too fast to transfer much heat. I have phenolic spacers, they don't stop the manifold from heating they just reduce transfer from the heads under extreme conditions.

Here is an old log I found pulling away from a stop and accelerating, you see the air temps dropping as the airflow increases then coming right back up when the flow slows down. This was from last August so air temps were prolly in the +100F range, I have a FMIC so I see about ambient temps in the manifold at high flow.


Last edited by lukeskywrx; 02-07-2013 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:41 AM   #5611
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Very interesting. So just to clarify, you are saying the proper sensor has a fast enough response time that it's not a problem?

Very interesting graph there.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:54 AM   #5612
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Originally Posted by simon021 View Post
Very interesting. So just to clarify, you are saying the proper sensor has a fast enough response time that it's not a problem?

Very interesting graph there.
Yes that is why you want an open element sensor inside the manifold AFTER the throttle body.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:55 AM   #5613
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Excellent. Thanks a lot, Luke. Some great info in this thread.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:52 AM   #5614
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As far as scaling this sensor

http://www.nzefi.com/product/inlet-a...rature-sensor/

It says it's the same scaling as most other delphi sensors. Is this the same scaling as our MAF IAT sensor or does anyone have the scaling figured out yet?
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:10 PM   #5615
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Carquest part # 72-4640

45 $ with pigtail. Gm sensor.

( don't know if you have carqests in the 'mericah )
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:37 PM   #5616
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so are people using the IAT sensor on the version 8 manifold just after the throttle body for speed density? or do people add one?
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:18 PM   #5617
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Quote:
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Carquest part # 72-4640

45 $ with pigtail. Gm sensor.

( don't know if you have carqests in the 'mericah )
So is that like this one:

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/g...tail-p-62.html

The scaling they show is in Ohms. Volts is what is needed for scaling in the rom.

This is exactly what I'm looking for and price point is perfect, I just need to find the proper scaling for it.

Edit: Here we go, this is what I was looking for:

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...hp?f=32&t=7797

Last edited by WRXt4cy; 02-07-2013 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:49 PM   #5618
lukeskywrx
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so are people using the IAT sensor on the version 8 manifold just after the throttle body for speed density? or do people add one?
NO, that is what the last 2 pages have been about.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WRick View Post
Carquest part # 72-4640

45 $ with pigtail. Gm sensor.

( don't know if you have carqests in the 'mericah )
THe GM sensor is huge like 3/8 NPT, so be prepared to drill a .5" hole in your manifold to run it.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:00 PM   #5619
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The GM sensor is huge like 3/8 NPT, so be prepared to drill a .5" hole in your manifold to run it.
Yeah... that's not helpful.

Do you know off-hand what size the oem manifold temp sensor is? I want to see if I can find something the same size but I'm not having any luck finding what the correct size is.
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:22 PM   #5620
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Yeah... that's not helpful.

Do you know off-hand what size the oem manifold temp sensor is? I want to see if I can find something the same size but I'm not having any luck finding what the correct size is.
I can assure you that the drilling and tapping will be way easier than you think. A decent tap can be found for about $15 and a drill bit of proper size for $5-10. Or you can drip the manifold off at even a poor machine shop and they'll do it same day for $50 I'd bet. It's aluminum after all; the stuff is easy as hell to work with.
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:30 PM   #5621
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I can assure you that the drilling and tapping will be way easier than you think. A decent tap can be found for about $15 and a drill bit of proper size for $5-10. Or you can drip the manifold off at even a poor machine shop and they'll do it same day for $50 I'd bet. It's aluminum after all; the stuff is easy as hell to work with.
Wouldn't you need to take the manifold off to do this? There is the labor, not the drilling and tapping.
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:44 PM   #5622
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Wouldn't you need to take the manifold off to do this? There is the labor, not the drilling and tapping.
Yeah, but that's a pretty quick job. If you've done it once, it's cake. Adds 2 hours to the job or less.
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:50 PM   #5623
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I think buying the proper sized sensor would be a lot easier than that, dont you? I think we can agree on that.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:11 PM   #5624
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I think buying the proper sized sensor would be a lot easier than that, dont you? I think we can agree on that.
That is why I recommend the 1/8 BSP(British standard pipe thread) that can use the PCV valve threads.

I am not 100% sure but I think the OEM temp sensor uses that same thread size as well, or at least could be retapped for it.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:11 PM   #5625
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Yeah, I wanted to find a "plug and play" solution. I have all the tools and skills to tap it myself, I just don't want to do it that way if I can buy the something that will work.

I simply want to determine that the existing manifold temp sensor's thread size and pitch and buy the right kind of intake temp sensor with a matching thread size and pitch so I can swap into place.
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