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Old 04-05-2013, 03:57 AM   #6226
lukeskywrx
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Originally Posted by stlnation View Post
Still no... Hes talking about a new oem shortblock. Not a used block from a vendor.
I know he is, but I also suspect he has never shipped anything overseas like that.

Lets say you get a deal for a 1500$ shortblock from japan I would expect somewhere in the 500-1000$ range to get it shipped here (depending on how many weeks you want to wait) then a few hundred in duties.

so your 1500$ shortblock ends up as a 2000-3000$ shortblock, and you could have just bought a use longblock or nearly a whole motor for that and had it in hand in about a week. You find a vendor with a new SB sitting around I would expect to pay 2-3K$ easily.
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:55 AM   #6227
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Originally Posted by lukeskywrx View Post

I know he is, but I also suspect he has never shipped anything overseas like that.

Lets say you get a deal for a 1500$ shortblock from japan I would expect somewhere in the 500-1000$ range to get it shipped here (depending on how many weeks you want to wait) then a few hundred in duties.

so your 1500$ shortblock ends up as a 2000-3000$ shortblock, and you could have just bought a use longblock or nearly a whole motor for that and had it in hand in about a week. You find a vendor with a new SB sitting around I would expect to pay 2-3K$ easily.
I stopped reading after the first sentence, but, We were just making jokes about it costing a kidney for shipping...
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:04 AM   #6228
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Ok, back to normal JDM talk.

I'M GETTING MY REPLACEMENT MOTOR TODAY!!!

EJ207DG9LE
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:23 AM   #6229
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Ok, back to normal JDM talk.

I'M GETTING MY REPLACEMENT MOTOR TODAY!!!

EJ207DG9LE
Sweet! Mine would be headed my way soon
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:33 AM   #6230
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Originally Posted by 25rsti View Post
Ok, back to normal JDM talk.

I'M GETTING MY REPLACEMENT MOTOR TODAY!!!

EJ207DG9LE
With ECU?
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:40 AM   #6231
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Originally Posted by lukeskywrx View Post
I know he is, but I also suspect he has never shipped anything overseas like that.

Lets say you get a deal for a 1500$ shortblock from japan I would expect somewhere in the 500-1000$ range to get it shipped here (depending on how many weeks you want to wait) then a few hundred in duties.

so your 1500$ shortblock ends up as a 2000-3000$ shortblock, and you could have just bought a use longblock or nearly a whole motor for that and had it in hand in about a week. You find a vendor with a new SB sitting around I would expect to pay 2-3K$ easily.
And also, there has been a link to these guys on this thread way back. I remember checking and the link was active.
Much later, I posted a comment about this as a solution and an Aussie guy had a really bad comment about these people, he probably got ripped off by them.
My biggest question (other than how much is shipping) is who pre-assembled the short block? Did the boys at the factory in Japan do the wrenching, or was it some mechanic in the corner of a dealership in Australia.
I don't know if you'd get a straight answer...

Also, Subaru regaulations as far as selling preassembled stuff is that they supply a long block and after an engine stops being installed at the factory, they supply a short block. A friend at a dealer in NY told me that it's unusual for Subaru to sell short blocks the way they do in US for EJ257. But the 207 has been discontinued in Aus for a while now, so that is not inconsistent.
The engine they advertise is with forged pistons, which as of lately makes sense, as only Japan got twinscroll EJ207 with cast pistons. Everyone else kept forged pistons untill the 207 was discontinued for their market.
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:45 AM   #6232
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Yep that sounds about right.
Im hoping for about 370-390 ish on 91 and fingers crossed for 450 on e85
Sweet. My friends buildin his 04 Sti, bottom end is already built from previous owner, now we're waitig to pull the heads. Fp green. Cams. Too much to list. Should be puttin down 450whp on a mustang dyno
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:03 PM   #6233
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And also, there has been a link to these guys on this thread way back. I remember checking and the link was active.
Much later, I posted a comment about this as a solution and an Aussie guy had a really bad comment about these people, he probably got ripped off by them.
My biggest question (other than how much is shipping) is who pre-assembled the short block? Did the boys at the factory in Japan do the wrenching, or was it some mechanic in the corner of a dealership in Australia.
I don't know if you'd get a straight answer...

Also, Subaru regaulations as far as selling preassembled stuff is that they supply a long block and after an engine stops being installed at the factory, they supply a short block. A friend at a dealer in NY told me that it's unusual for Subaru to sell short blocks the way they do in US for EJ257. But the 207 has been discontinued in Aus for a while now, so that is not inconsistent.
The engine they advertise is with forged pistons, which as of lately makes sense, as only Japan got twinscroll EJ207 with cast pistons. Everyone else kept forged pistons untill the 207 was discontinued for their market.
Did you just say a australian v9 would be forged Internals?
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:06 PM   #6234
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What kind of mpgs are you guys getting with your EJ207s? Mine is stock with a turboback exhaust, and I think I'm seeing 20mpg... still a little early in my swap to know for sure.
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:11 PM   #6235
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What kind of mpgs are you guys getting with your EJ207s? Mine is stock with a turboback exhaust, and I think I'm seeing 20mpg... still a little early in my swap to know for sure.
19
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:46 PM   #6236
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With ECU?
I got a V7 ecu. I also got an HKS downpipe along with other things to make this time much better than last.
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:59 PM   #6237
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I got a V7 ecu. I also got an HKS downpipe along with other things to make this time much better than last.
My buddy can fab that downpipe if you like.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:52 PM   #6238
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What kind of mpgs are you guys getting with your EJ207s? Mine is stock with a turboback exhaust, and I think I'm seeing 20mpg... still a little early in my swap to know for sure.
23-25 mpg mixed driving, lots of Long Island expressway, some around town but mostly highway.
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:14 AM   #6239
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There is not many cases of spun bearings reported on this thread, where do you see people having ej207 bearing issues reported ?

Mine is also a daily driver, clocked 8,000+ miles since swap, no issues.
Right before my accident I had bought the car with 30k miles on the swap, then I put 12k on it (v8 207) and I had no problems whatsoever with it, I'm going to be doing a rebuild soon to freshen it up before it goes in the new 2006 STi
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:35 AM   #6240
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Did you just say a australian v9 would be forged Internals?
Yes, but it would actually be a 2005 MY V7, here is why:
A lot of the focus has been on researching all the details of what happened with the EJ207 in the Japanese market. So some important details were not taken into account, regarding the export Ej207 engines.

This is another consequence of the early talk about EJ207, where the export ones were quickly dismissed.

If you go back a bit in this thread, you'll see that John Felstead, talking about UK market EJ207 is stating that they all had forged pistons. And that checks out with the part numbers.

Basically, what I think happened, is that the clock stopped at V7 for EJ207 export engines, for all markets.

Nobody in export markets got twinscroll, so up untill the EJ207 export got discontinued, which was probably in early 2006, they were all V7, as such, forged pistons.
In all honesty, I cannot check the part numbers for AUS EJ207 pistons, but it makes sense to me.
Maybe we can get an Aussie that is watching this, to give us first hand info.
Also, 2 years ago, I went and looked at the info in the link for the brand new AUS short block and I recall seeing clearly stated "forged pistons". At the time, not knowing the above info, I wondered whether those guys were just making things up.

From an efficiency standpoint, it makes sense to me. The factory decided maybe in 2003 that it was going to upgrade everyone to the USDM spec Sti, so they froze devellopment of the EJ207 for export at V7 and kept it that way, untill they were ready to roll out the worldwide export EJ257 Sti in '06.

Look at the piston analysis article that APS has on their site. They compare a USDM EJ257 piston to a AUSDM EJ207 forged piston. I nevery fully understood that article.
I was wondering: "Why are these Aussies comparing the USDM piston to a piston that was never on their market (the V7 forged) and that is now (2005) not even available anymore and they make the article sound like the forged piston is the standard, doesn't make sense"
I guess the answer is that forged WAS the AUSDM 2005 standard.

Last edited by Vlad; 04-06-2013 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:31 AM   #6241
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I can give you first hand info as an Aussie that these ej207 shortblocks are in fact identical to the V7 JDM shortblock.

That is - semi closed deck, 9.6mm cylinder walls, forged pistons, forged rods and cross drilled crank.

The reason for this is pretty much as Vlad has pointed out above EXCEPT - these motors were released in the Version 7 AND 8 AUDM STi so have been falsely called V8 AUDM short blocks. The more correct way to put this is that they were V7 single scroll motors (with small port heads not like the JDM V7, and also a different turbo - VF35 instead of the vf30/34 of the JDM motors).

Australia never received the twin scroll V8/9/10 EJ207. I can tell you that for a fact. I can also tell you all Aus delivered Sti's with ej207's (1999-2005) were small port heads. The bug eye and peanut audm Sti (MY01 to MY05) had avcs but still small port heads not like the JDM V7. The shortblocks though are identical to V7 JDM EJ207 ones.

To me personally this is a half baked cake - the strong block but crappy heads compared to the jdm.

I believe the main point most people miss (not here specifically, just generally) is that its the JDM head AND block combo that make these JDM EJ207 engines so potent in factory form. The quench area, the piston to deck height, the included valve angle, the port shape / casting, the head design generally, the cam specs, combined with a solid bottom end to rev well and smoothly and effortlessly - that's the killer combo

No other EJ motor will ever come close unless its had 15k of parts and labour by a trained eye specializing in EJ's with the correct equipment to machine and assemble these things correctly) poured into it.

The hint to me is to look at how much timing these engines can run in factory form even on a detuned rom to suit lower octane fuel. And it's not just the lower static compression ratio that everyone keeps pointing to. To challenge that theory - have a look at how many hybrid 257/205 or 255 or 257 built motors running 8.0:1 compression can run the same timing as a stock V7/8/9/10 JDM ej207 motor. I can tell you it's not many, and this comes down to engine design. Same compression, much lower total timing threshold. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe it's the dynamic compression ratio (altered by avcs tuning perhaps) - but then again, the 257 comes in single and now dual avcs too - so even with a built motor at 8.0:1 with avcs it still won't allow same timing / boost at the same load points as a factory assembled jdm 207.

The jdm 207 just works. As a package. Personal opinion but grounded in some solid info I believe.

Back to Vlad's question - The V7 ej207 shortblocks can be purchased brand new factory assembled here from a few sources. Where these were assembled and by whom - I cannot really say. But they do exist. Call it what you want (audm v7/8/9 etc) - they are new.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by dr20t; 04-06-2013 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:33 AM   #6242
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Originally Posted by Vlad View Post

Yes, but it would actually be a 2005 MY V7, here is why:
A lot of the focus has been on researching all the details of what happened with the EJ207 in the Japanese market. So some important details were not taken into account, regarding the export Ej207 engines.

This is another consequence of the early talk about EJ207, where the export ones were quickly dismissed.

If you go back a bit in this thread, you'll see that John Felstead, talking about UK market EJ207 is stating that they all had forged pistons. And that checks out with the part numbers.

Basically, what I think happened, is that the clock stopped at V7 for EJ207 export engines, for all markets.

Nobody in export markets got twinscroll, so up untill the EJ207 export got discontinued, which was probably in early 2006, they were all V7, as such, forged pistons.
In all honesty, I cannot check the part numbers for AUS EJ207 pistons, but it makes sense to me.
Maybe we can get an Aussie that is watching this, to give us first hand info.
Also, 2 years ago, I went and looked at the info in the link for the brand new AUS short block and I recall seeing clearly stated "forged pistons". At the time, not knowing the above info, I wondered whether those guys were just making things up.

From an efficiency standpoint, it makes sense to me. The factory decided maybe in 2003 that it was going to upgrade everyone to the USDM spec Sti, so they froze devellopment of the EJ207 for export at V7 and kept it that way, untill they were ready to roll out the worldwide export EJ257 Sti in '06.

Look at the piston analysis article that APS has on their site. They compare a USDM EJ257 piston to a AUSDM EJ207 forged piston. I nevery fully understood that article.
I was wondering: "Why are these Aussies comparing the USDM piston to a piston that was never on their market (the V7 forged) and that is now (2005) not even available anymore and they make the article sound like the forged piston is the standard, doesn't make sense"
I guess the answer is that forged WAS the AUSDM 2005 standard.
I believe they got forged pistons due to the lower octane levels in their fuel.
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Old 04-06-2013, 03:31 PM   #6243
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I believe they got forged pistons due to the lower octane levels in their fuel.
Please do not speculate if you don't know.......Australia has 98 RON and some stations have 100 RON as premium fuels, comparable to Japan. Knock resistance has never driven piston choice otherwise USDM cars would have gotten them. For V7 the forged were the state of the art, then in late V8 the hypereutectics came in as the newest, latest and greatest technology. The change from forged pistons let them tighten up the clearances and cut down HC emissions slightly.

Everyone loves to hate the hypereutectics but how many 207s do you see with broken pistons? The 207 has great knock resistance so unless you do something stupid the forged are not really necessary for most people. Also remember that the factory forged pistons are not like aftermarket pistons.


So it sounds like Australia just got a static version 7 based car for several years. Didn't they switch to the 2.5L "world motor" in ~06-07 like most everyone else got? With import taxes what they are for Australia I can't imagine they sell enough to consider give them the latest and greatest, a STI in Australia runs around 70,000$

Last edited by lukeskywrx; 04-06-2013 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:37 PM   #6244
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if you have a V7 and need a short block replacement, get a quotation and post the price, can't hurt to ask what shipping is.

i am a fan of V8,9 and 10 engines, Luke has some good points about them, I feel the same way.
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Old 04-06-2013, 05:56 PM   #6245
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Anyone have any military friends in Japan right now? Go direct to the source and see what can be had then shipped over using APO.

I suspect the V7 shortblock will be superseded by the V9 and potentially the same thing with the pistons.

Quote:
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if you have a V7 and need a short block replacement, get a quotation and post the price, can't hurt to ask what shipping is.

i am a fan of V8,9 and 10 engines, Luke has some good points about them, I feel the same way.
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:29 PM   #6246
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Anyone have any military friends in Japan right now? Go direct to the source and see what can be had then shipped over using APO.

I suspect the V7 shortblock will be superseded by the V9 and potentially the same thing with the pistons.
That's a great idea.
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:57 PM   #6247
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So it sounds like Australia just got a static version 7 based car for several years. Didn't they switch to the 2.5L "world motor" in ~06-07 like most everyone else got? With import taxes what they are for Australia I can't imagine they sell enough to consider give them the latest and greatest, a STI in Australia runs around 70,000$
I was going to write the same thing about speculating when not knowing. Octane rating was never a consideration of wheter to offer the forged piston or not.

Also, our 98 here is rubbish - I would say its in between your equivalent 91-93 than anything else.

We did switch to 2.5 in 06 for the same reasons as everyone else, but despite this, Subaru are still offering the ej207 shortblock for sale.

Mick
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:14 PM   #6248
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Also, our 98 here is rubbish - I would say its in between your equivalent 91-93 than anything else.
Vlad, Myself and others have discussed this before. We figure japan 98 ron is basically equivalent to ~93 Oct in the US plus or minus a point depending on additives. I would love to have something better than 91 that isn't e85 When you are comparing octane ratings using the same system such as RON it is really hard to say they are very different. The same industrial standard found both gasses to be the same in knock resistance.

A 207 only needs a slight reduction in timing from the JDM ROM to handle 91 OCT in the US and can easily run stock timing on 93-94 that is available in parts of the country.

A big difference is that Japan does not run ethanol in its gas like in the US and I believe as in Aussie land so that automatically leans you out at the same measured AFR

Last edited by lukeskywrx; 04-06-2013 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:24 PM   #6249
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true they dont run ethonal but dont forget adding any ethanol to the gas only raises its octane rating but in turn leans the fuel mixture. i figured that for every 10% added it leans out a wot mixture of 11.0 by 3%. that brings the afr to 11.3 which if your already running lean in the 11.2 range that can start to cause things to get hot but thats were the ethanol helps keep things cool. its kinda a trade off i guess. on e85 i ran about 12.0afr since i could keep it really cool with all the fuel it needs over gas and the higher octane properties. fortunatly about 50% of the gas stations in NE Wi have 93 octane and kwik trips have the e85 for summer time fun. a fuel such as e50 would prob yield the best results. higher octane. only require about 20% more fuel over gas and it would prob have plenty of knock protection still. e85 prevents so much knock you can advance past the point of making power and start to decrease which isnt good. lowering the octane to a lower level such as e50 would help keep the boundary of knock lower so ppl dont go stir crazy jacking up timing and pushing too much force into there crank bearings and rods.
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:35 PM   #6250
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If you just use ethanol for its octane and cooling effects, yes, you don't need 85% ethanol and a lower mix would work just as well. I prefer the high ethanol blend for its increase in exhaust gas volume to give better spool and torque in addition to being able to run more timing. The main reason the gas is in there is to make the car easier to start, E100 will basically not start below 60F and can be difficult to start below ~80F.

Lower blends you can still run the timing but you are putting out less exhaust volume.

Last edited by lukeskywrx; 04-06-2013 at 08:42 PM.
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