Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday August 21, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-18-2010, 12:47 PM   #1001
LIQUIDSK8S
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 22605
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2002 JDM STI/WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gingertooth View Post
are you sure your avcs is working???? If it's not your turbo will take forever to spool......
That's one thing I was wondering, sadly the tuner wasn't able to see the AVCS with OS..... which is confusing since I thought you could see/tune the AVCS with OS.

What will I need to be able to check if the AVCS is running? Also, I'm running the full chassis harness so the wiring is OEM.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
LIQUIDSK8S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2010, 12:50 PM   #1002
Hyper
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 15822
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MOCKBA
Vehicle:
1999 WRB GM6
2.12cc V9 Type RA

Default

you can see/tune AVCS with OS...

do a log, and you will see if cams are working or not
Hyper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2010, 01:01 PM   #1003
lil'redwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10854
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Hunt Valley, MD.
Vehicle:
2002 Sedan V8 ej207
Dom 3 XT-R, 400WHP

Default

stupid question, but you're using the jdm ecu, right? avcs won't show up if you're still using the usdm 02 wrx ecu.
lil'redwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2010, 01:05 PM   #1004
LIQUIDSK8S
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 22605
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2002 JDM STI/WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
you can see/tune AVCS with OS...

do a log, and you will see if cams are working or not
That's what I thought, but he said his "program" doesn't allow him to tune/see AVCS...... which made me question him as a tuner despite many people telling me he is great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lil'redwagon View Post
stupid question, but you're using the jdm ecu, right? avcs won't show up if you're still using the usdm 02 wrx ecu.
Yep JDM ECU.
LIQUIDSK8S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2010, 01:23 PM   #1005
lil'redwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10854
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Hunt Valley, MD.
Vehicle:
2002 Sedan V8 ej207
Dom 3 XT-R, 400WHP

Default

even if the avcs was working, those numbers above 5k are really low. of course, i don't know what his definition of a conservative tune is.
lil'redwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2010, 01:39 PM   #1006
LIQUIDSK8S
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 22605
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2002 JDM STI/WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lil'redwagon View Post
even if the avcs was working, those numbers above 5k are really low. of course, i don't know what his definition of a conservative tune is.
Yeah, he said the reason for that was the slow spool limiting power, which is why the torque was so low also. We were hitting 22-23psi and tapering off to 16psi at 7600rpms.

He also said the underhood temps were too high with the intake and he couldn't push it because of this. This plus the slow spool is why we didn't make any power in his opinion.
LIQUIDSK8S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2010, 02:33 PM   #1007
fastnoypi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 6886
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
MY01 EJ207 HTA35r
nothing to see, i'm stock

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LIQUIDSK8S View Post
That's what I thought, but he said his "program" doesn't allow him to tune/see AVCS...... which made me question him as a tuner despite many people telling me he is great.



Yep JDM ECU.
He has to look if the VVT values are shooting past 5 degrees in the logger.
Also checking the status of the NPS will help troubleshoot the AVCS if it isn't working
fastnoypi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2010, 03:28 PM   #1008
LIQUIDSK8S
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 22605
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2002 JDM STI/WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastnoypi View Post
He has to look if the VVT values are shooting past 5 degrees in the logger.
Also checking the status of the NPS will help troubleshoot the AVCS if it isn't working
Looks like I should grab a tactrix cable to run some logs and see if my tuner made some mistakes.

Another thing to note, while on the dyno we did multiple runs and then randomly it cut boost to 10psi. We let it cool down, checked for leaks...... still wouldn't go past 10psi and then randomly it let us boost 22psi again. I asked him if it was the ECU pulling boost and he said no.

Later that night/next day it did it again...... I disconnected the battery, hooked it back up and boost came back. This tells me the ECU was cutting boost due to a problem. It did it again later that night, I popped the hood to look at it and noticed the pos bat terminal was loose......... now this is only a theory...... but is it possible the ECU lost power from the battery for a moment and that caused the issue.

I also tried multiple solenoids (I have spare stock ones) and they are def all working perfectly. ECU is def telling the car to pull timing/boost.
LIQUIDSK8S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2010, 05:01 PM   #1009
Vlad
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 46135
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
02 WRX
Sti V9 Spec C

Default

I'm trying to see which oil pan the 207 has. Is it the same pan like the 205 or like the 257?
Vlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2010, 05:29 PM   #1010
lil'redwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10854
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Hunt Valley, MD.
Vehicle:
2002 Sedan V8 ej207
Dom 3 XT-R, 400WHP

Default

my Version 8 207 came with a triangle oil pan as found in the 257.
lil'redwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2010, 06:12 PM   #1011
lil'redwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10854
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Hunt Valley, MD.
Vehicle:
2002 Sedan V8 ej207
Dom 3 XT-R, 400WHP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LIQUIDSK8S View Post
Looks like I should grab a tactrix cable to run some logs and see if my tuner made some mistakes.

Another thing to note, while on the dyno we did multiple runs and then randomly it cut boost to 10psi. We let it cool down, checked for leaks...... still wouldn't go past 10psi and then randomly it let us boost 22psi again. I asked him if it was the ECU pulling boost and he said no.

Later that night/next day it did it again...... I disconnected the battery, hooked it back up and boost came back. This tells me the ECU was cutting boost due to a problem. It did it again later that night, I popped the hood to look at it and noticed the pos bat terminal was loose......... now this is only a theory...... but is it possible the ECU lost power from the battery for a moment and that caused the issue.

I also tried multiple solenoids (I have spare stock ones) and they are def all working perfectly. ECU is def telling the car to pull timing/boost.

yeah, i'd want to check the tune if i were you. or maybe send it out to clark or ron or someone to look over. the tuner may be reputable, but does he have a lot of experience with subaru ecu's?
lil'redwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2010, 07:50 PM   #1012
LIQUIDSK8S
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 22605
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2002 JDM STI/WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lil'redwagon View Post
yeah, i'd want to check the tune if i were you. or maybe send it out to clark or ron or someone to look over. the tuner may be reputable, but does he have a lot of experience with subaru ecu's?
I heard he has a good amount of experience with Subarus,....... but not to the level of Clark/Ron..... and def not with the EJ207. It sucks that clark/ron are so far from me...... but clark does email tunes so I'll look into that with him.
LIQUIDSK8S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 12:23 PM   #1013
scoobystas
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 26568
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Brighton, Mass
Vehicle:
2003 Yellow Bugeye
Version 8-Vf37

Default

based on that curve your avcs is NA!! With it non functioning, the cam is set breath at high rpm, and thats what your curve really looks like.

To log, you can buy a vag-com cable, its only gonna run you $15shipped, but unfortuantly, the chances of you flashing with it are very slim. I have the jdm ecu and the 03' oem ecu and can't flash either of them. I've tried everything like changing the baud rate, etc. I pull out my open port 2.0 and it flashes it instantly so your probably better off just buying the tactrix. On a side note, the tactrix mini-usb connector is the weak part, it gets loose and starts loosing its connection to the ecu, so i no longer log with it to prevent the wear and tear. I use the vag-com for logging and tactrix for flashing.
scoobystas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 01:05 PM   #1014
gingertooth
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 82242
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: west milford, NJ
Vehicle:
2005 wrx wagon
wooh wooh!!!!!

Default

The very first thing i would do is get rid of your tuner. Last thing you want is some idiot who can't tune your car properly and avcs is part of your engine..............
gingertooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 03:24 PM   #1015
LIQUIDSK8S
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 22605
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2002 JDM STI/WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobystas View Post
based on that curve your avcs is NA!! With it non functioning, the cam is set breath at high rpm, and thats what your curve really looks like.
I'm not sure it's the AVCS, I've been hearing more and more from people with upgraded VF37's that they spool extremely slow and are essentially crap.

Next time I'm home I will do some logs, but there shouldn't be any problem with the AVCS as it is the complete factory wiring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gingertooth View Post
The very first thing i would do is get rid of your tuner. Last thing you want is some idiot who can't tune your car properly and avcs is part of your engine..............
That's what sucks about Florida...... there are no really good tuners down here

This was the place I went
http://www.horsepowerlogic.com/index.html
LIQUIDSK8S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 03:42 PM   #1016
lil'redwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10854
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Hunt Valley, MD.
Vehicle:
2002 Sedan V8 ej207
Dom 3 XT-R, 400WHP

Default

it may be a slow spooler, but my Dom 3 XT-R spools faster than yours. if that turbo's spooling that slowly, then it's a complete turd! i don't think it's the turbo, but if it was, it would have the lag of a much larger turbo, with the power of a much smaller one - the worst of both worlds! i don't think that's it. since the ecu's limiting boost erratically, i definitely think it's another issue. if you don't have another shop to go to, i'd call clark. talk with him about your issues and buy a tune from him. he's one of the more experienced people around here with respect to the ej207.
lil'redwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 03:45 PM   #1017
LIQUIDSK8S
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 22605
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2002 JDM STI/WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lil'redwagon View Post
it may be a slow spooler, but my Dom 3 XT-R spools faster than yours. if that turbo's spooling that slowly, then it's a complete turd! i don't think it's the turbo, but if it was, it would have the lag of a much larger turbo, with the power of a much smaller one - the worst of both worlds! i don't think that's it. since the ecu's limiting boost erratically, i definitely think it's another issue. if you don't have another shop to go to, i'd call clark. talk with him about your issues and buy a tune from him. he's one of the more experienced people around here with respect to the ej207.
I'm def going to give Clark a call to work out the issues with this. But from what I've seen, the modified VF37's have HORRIBLE spool and are essentially crap. There are a couple on this board that don't hit full boost till 5K+ and make less power than a stock VF37 because of it.

Trust me...... I really wish it was just a simple case of the AVCS not running right....... but everything I've been seeing about this turbo is telling me otherwise.
LIQUIDSK8S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 03:56 PM   #1018
lil'redwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10854
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Hunt Valley, MD.
Vehicle:
2002 Sedan V8 ej207
Dom 3 XT-R, 400WHP

Default

could you call deadbolt to see what they have to say about their turd? i mean, you're making vf-39 horsepower with tdo4 torque, and gt-35 spool.
lil'redwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 04:27 PM   #1019
LIQUIDSK8S
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 22605
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2002 JDM STI/WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lil'redwagon View Post
could you call deadbolt to see what they have to say about their turd? i mean, you're making vf-39 horsepower with tdo4 torque, and gt-35 spool.
They are out of business.

Here is a guy who had his rebuilt by Blouch and it's super laggy even on a 2.5
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=230
LIQUIDSK8S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 04:27 PM   #1020
Clark Turner
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 178047
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: AZ
Vehicle:
02 WRX STI Spec C
Black

Default

Send me a log and let me look at it. You need the AVCS working. The cams will slip around at high rpms and just lower overall power. Its really important to for the system to be working on this motor.

I dont know why you are saying that the VF37 is a slow spooler. I have done a couple hundred of them now. The last one I did was full on around 3500 rpm and was around the 315whp mark on pumpg as. It held power pretty good out to 7800 rpm. There maybe other things going on with your car.

C
Clark Turner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 04:40 PM   #1021
LIQUIDSK8S
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 22605
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2002 JDM STI/WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Turner View Post
Send me a log and let me look at it. You need the AVCS working. The cams will slip around at high rpms and just lower overall power. Its really important to for the system to be working on this motor.

I dont know why you are saying that the VF37 is a slow spooler. I have done a couple hundred of them now. The last one I did was full on around 3500 rpm and was around the 315whp mark on pumpg as. It held power pretty good out to 7800 rpm. There maybe other things going on with your car.

C
I wasn't saying that the VF37 is a slow spooler, but that the deadbolt modified one is. They converted it to a PE1825 with a port/polish and clipped fins......... and it's unbelievably laggy compared to the stock VF37. Stock VF37 is awesome for spool..... modified one.... not so much

I'm currently in NY for work and won't be back to my car till next month probably, but as soon as I'm down I will make sure to do some logs and see what you think could be the problem. Thanks for the offer to check my logs . I'll def be talking to you about your email tunes and thoughts on what I should/shouldn't run with this motor.

Also, I've checked the compression so that isn't an issue.
LIQUIDSK8S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 04:45 PM   #1022
Clark Turner
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 178047
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: AZ
Vehicle:
02 WRX STI Spec C
Black

Default

Oh.. Sorry man. I did not understand that. Yes, That turbo is garbage. Its not even close to a real Zero sports or PE1825. He used an old wheel I found about 6 years ago to stuff into the VF. I never had good results with it. Slow spool, High backpressure and slow spool.

C
Clark Turner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 04:58 PM   #1023
LIQUIDSK8S
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 22605
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2002 JDM STI/WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Turner View Post
Oh.. Sorry man. I did not understand that. Yes, That turbo is garbage. Its not even close to a real Zero sports or PE1825. He used an old wheel I found about 6 years ago to stuff into the VF. I never had good results with it. Slow spool, High backpressure and slow spool.

C
No worries. That just helps solidify my thoughts of this turbo being complete crap. Now I have to figure out which route to go.

I think I might grab a stock VF37/36 for now. I don't know what my options are with this reworked VF37 of mine..... not sure who could uncrappify this thing. I would prefer to stay twinscroll, and my goals are between 350-400whp on E85 with lot's of response. Any thoughts Clark?
LIQUIDSK8S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 05:19 PM   #1024
Clark Turner
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 178047
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: AZ
Vehicle:
02 WRX STI Spec C
Black

Default

VF is not going to get you there to be honest. If you like cranked dyno numbers with 1.25 correction then maybe 350 on E85. It will run strong and get you 40 to 50 over pump gas which is good.

C
Clark Turner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 05:25 PM   #1025
LIQUIDSK8S
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 22605
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2002 JDM STI/WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Turner View Post
VF is not going to get you there to be honest. If you like cranked dyno numbers with 1.25 correction then maybe 350 on E85. It will run strong and get you 40 to 50 over pump gas which is good.

C
I thought there were quite a few people pushing 330+whp on VF37's on pump gas.
LIQUIDSK8S is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ej207 owner wants opinions adbramsay Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 2 02-26-2011 07:29 PM
Ej207 V6 AndrewFD3 Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 10 06-03-2010 04:53 PM
JDM Sti EJ207 V9 crank 75mm or billet crank (K1, Manley) VENDORS ??? L'frise Private 'Wanted' Classifieds 7 06-03-2010 09:24 AM
08 ej207 JDM dual AVCS heads on a built v7 ej207 icev7 Built Motor Discussion 17 02-21-2010 03:21 PM
Ver 8 EJ207 Owners Check In spoolinsuby Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 21 10-17-2005 01:56 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.